SGOTM 02 - Team CFR
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Really, I don't think it is of any importance, we can build those chariots in any cities we like when needed.
This depends on what I understand under "most useful", and this depends much on timing. An early war pop-rusher (like Pi-Rameses with its fish and 1-2 bananas and wood to chop) is certainly a worthy pick, as well as Hun with its 3 gem mines and Thebes with wood, food, mines and cottages. However, I'd rather abandon stuff like Heliopolis and Alexandria.Obormot said:
As I see, there's no difference in our position save wording.
- right, got me here. Still, find it useful to produce samurai, maybe, too stereotypical, still cling to the idea that stuff is produced from hammers, not people
Seems like slavery cities will become our foremost army contributors, and best producers will be serving their needs.MP has one drawback - it increases military upkeep. This would lessen with Vassalage, but marginal upkeep from extra units still'll be the same (though lower due to obsolescence factor to chariots).
Now to Feudalism - we want it, and we want it NOW, i.e. before conquest. But now we can get it only from HC and MM, who require Astronomy. MM is willing to fight with Bismark as a free gift for shoppers, and it seems to me like a good way to stop him from building those nasty shipses. Otherwise we can trade MM Astro for war with HC (which will make MM adopt his own religion and tear him from Buddhist league) and trade Astro to HC for Feudalism. The question is - are we better off with war among AI than without? Yes, I agree, they start building military, but once we start war, they will still do it - remember last SGOTM, when 100%-allied Arabs and Americans still had large armies, and here we have aggressive AI and a rising war-monger. If we make them fight among each other, this will slow their development down and open their backs for a stab as all their troops will be massed along frontline (attack Inca from sea). Consider this.
Balbes
Instigator
I must say I'm greatly enoying the crash course in slavery tactics this game has been providing.
Yea, unit upkeep is a significant disadvantage of the chariot trick, I thought about it too. But I think that at this point extra production is more important. I agree with you about Heliopolis and Alexandria (unless there is good stuff in their radii hidden in the fog), but I would keep all other egyptian cities. I think that as a rule of thumb we should keep cities with 2 or more bonus resources, and raze others. They will quickly become usefull to us, and an FP will make them relatively cheap once we build it. Also more cities means faster healing.
I think that at first captured cities should build all the stuff we built at home, except forges, those are too expensive and won't pay off in the short time left. Later as we get closer to our goal, we may also skip other buildings as there will be less time to pay off.
BTW, our economy should be totally screwed up at the point we reach conquest victory, because otherwise it would mean that we didn't use our resources to the full extent.
I think that at first captured cities should build all the stuff we built at home, except forges, those are too expensive and won't pay off in the short time left. Later as we get closer to our goal, we may also skip other buildings as there will be less time to pay off.
BTW, our economy should be totally screwed up at the point we reach conquest victory, because otherwise it would mean that we didn't use our resources to the full extent.
IL2T
Prince
What our military plan?
I think it's necessary to consider three scenarios/fronts
1. Egypt-> Germany-> Mali
2. China-> Mongolia
3. Inca-> Mali
We start with 1 - Egypt
Then 1 + 2 simultaneously or separately depending on our condition.
I think it's necessary to consider three scenarios/fronts
1. Egypt-> Germany-> Mali
2. China-> Mongolia
3. Inca-> Mali
We start with 1 - Egypt
Then 1 + 2 simultaneously or separately depending on our condition.
Balbes
Instigator
I think we definitely should attack in two places at once, as soon as we have enough troops. We can, for example, start with Egypt and China, and work our way counterclockwise and clockwise through the continent until our armies meet in the west. Alternatively, we can attack enemy countries one-by-one by simultaneously landing at their eastern and western borders. This would prevent them from being able to keep their inner cities weak and reinforcing just the front. I estimate this tactic to be about 1.5 times quicker but require 2.5x lift capacity in galleons.
By the way, team Pioneer Knights, currently second best in score, has posted their first spoiler. They're building Chichen Itza! (almost have completed it too).
By the way, team Pioneer Knights, currently second best in score, has posted their first spoiler. They're building Chichen Itza! (almost have completed it too).
That is fine with me.
Or it might be better to attack in that order:
1. Egypt->China->Mongolia,
2. Inca->Mali
3. Germany
4. Mongolia
(I don't like the Egypt->Germany move, because our forces will be moving from south to north in the Egypt war and then they'll have to turn back, which is not good. Also there seems to be too few roads between Egypt and Germany)
Landing units on both sides of the continent can be used sometimes, when it doesn't cost much extra ship movement, like when attacking China and Mongolia from Egypt, but I think it is usually not justified. We can also build some galeons in the inner sea ports we capture and use those to move troops across the inner sea if necessary.
Good moments about Germany - they have GL (+2 trade routes in all ports) and are more likely to develop than Chinese tundra-dwellers. I'd have started with Egypt (Pi-Rameses, Hun, West and North, then turned South-West to finish Egypt and immediately attack Germany. SE remains of Egypt can be swiftly dealt with by newcoming units. Roads can be built by captured workers.
Want to return to war allies issue - should we get some AI (MM vs Capac or MM vs Bismark) into war for free? We will still trade for Feudalism at highly discriminating rate.
Want to return to war allies issue - should we get some AI (MM vs Capac or MM vs Bismark) into war for free? We will still trade for Feudalism at highly discriminating rate.
I am not sure about alliances. Just don't have any experience with this. This may help, but it may also hurt. Maybe we should start some wars a bit later, closer to the point when we will actually be attacking those AI?
I am still in favour of attacking China and Mongolia after Egypt, it is definitely better from a logistics point of view, which I think offsets the bonus from the GL and slightly better land germans have.
I am still in favour of attacking China and Mongolia after Egypt, it is definitely better from a logistics point of view, which I think offsets the bonus from the GL and slightly better land germans have.
IL2T
Prince
Lexad said:
I think that we need to organize war, it's better between Mali and Germany. As it is free-of-charge.
EDIT
Egypt has a greater area, therefore it's necessary to attack in two directions:
1. Pi-rameses->Hun->Memphis->Thebes->Heliopolis
2. Olmec->Alexiadria->Elephantine->Heliopolis
Group 1 is more numerous and mobile.
Group 2 is future German front.
After capture of northern Egypt, we shall be defined with tasks for group 1.
IL2T
Prince
As we have missed quick start of war by one group, it's necessary to consider different variants of war plan.
I agree with you sbout splitting forces in Egypt, that is a must of course. The first group should be moved by galeons to speed the things up.
What I don't understand, is why you want to attack Germany after Egypt. It will take about 10 turns for our units to move from Thebes/Heliopolis to Germany, but only 1 or 2 turns to reach China. We will also be able to land in China on both coasts at the same time and thus fight more efficently. While Germany can be attacked more efficently then China by new troops we build at home.
We still have some time to discuss all this though, because I think Lexad will only be able to capture Olmec and Pi-Ramesses during his turns.
What I don't understand, is why you want to attack Germany after Egypt. It will take about 10 turns for our units to move from Thebes/Heliopolis to Germany, but only 1 or 2 turns to reach China. We will also be able to land in China on both coasts at the same time and thus fight more efficently. While Germany can be attacked more efficently then China by new troops we build at home.
We still have some time to discuss all this though, because I think Lexad will only be able to capture Olmec and Pi-Ramesses during his turns.
IL2T
Prince
I think, that we most likely will have 2 fronts by then. The ground group 2 after Elephantine will be closer to Germany than to China.Obormot said:
To that it is coordinated with plans to involve Mali in war against Germany.
I don't think so. We can have several galeons near Heliopolis by the time our units march there, so it can be transported to China and Egypt equally fast. But the Thebes group (which will likely be finished sooner then the Heliopolis one because of coastal transport will be closer to China).
And the war between AI is not very important, they are quite weak already. The second front should be opened against Inca and later Mali, since they have a lot of land and the war there will take some time.
Balbes
Instigator
Currently the AIs have a large number of very good defensive units (longbowmen) but no good offensive units (macemen or knights) or very few of them. Therefore I don't think they'd be very successful at capturing cities, and a war between AIs will have two main effects: wholesale pillaging of improvements, and promoting their longbowen. Neither is desirable for us.
IL2T
Prince
It seems that more likely is a question of luck, it's not enough experience for the correct decision.Lexad said:
