SGOTM 02 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[AlanH]

The file is uploaded. Apologies - I was updating the page and introduced a brief bug

 

[Kodii]

Thanks Alan

To whoever decides to pick up the next turnset:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG002_AD1820_01.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Compromise]

Nice. Looks like we're getting close to the end. Anyone want to take a crack at it before Tuesday?

 

[ruff_hi]

I cannot promise anything - but I might be able to get in a few turns Monday.

 

[Compromise]

Ruff, since I didn't see anything from you yesterday, I went ahead and played some turns. The highlights are:

1820: I notice that Mao has "got enough on his hands right now." Groan. That means he's going to attack. I start moving some destroyers up to our capital peninsula. I'm hoping to see his attack group.
1821: Mansa begins a golden age
1822: Kublai wants a defensive pact. I figure this is a good idea since Mao is llikely to attack. Any thoughts on this? We're in the pact now.
1822: Hatty completes Apollo.
1825: I'm finally able to see into one of Mao's cities and I see a battleship!
1832: We have Physics. And enough cash to get to (or at least close to) Industrialism. I'm not sure if we should aim for artillery or Electricity/Industrialism, but I lean toward the latter so we can get battleships going.

Notes:
I think we have enough drydocks.
Any time our cities get big, they get unhappy because of emancipation. I figure our best bet is to stay in Slavery and whip out big hammer items like battleships, artillery and troops.
We'll need to start formulating a battle plan soon. Any thoughts?
Mansa is running away in tech.
Hatty has Apollo.
Mao's probably going to attack us.
Kublai is our buddy.

The save is here.

 

[Kodii]

Just to add to that, Mao has Apollo too. I'm thinking, wipe everyone off the planet, then poor Kublai. Permament Alliances aren't disabled, are they?...

 

[Kodii]

Unless I hear from anyone within 24 hours, I'll play again. We should play turnsets up to and over 20 turns from now on, unless there is a crucial change or a decision to be made.

 

[Compromise]

I agree: play about 20 or until a major decision point. I only played 12 because I wasn't sure whether to go for battleships or artillery first. I guess I'm leaning toward battleships because they are the most powerful naval vessel, and I'm just assuming Mao's coming sometime soon. Because we don't have open borders, I can't tell where his fleet is gathering. But, it will have to come through the strait, and I've got a destroyer patrolling (and 5 more just inside the circle).

I'm really hoping that if Mao does decide to declare on us, he'll only make one assault or it will be recalled since Kublai borders him and has a defensive pact with us.

Of course, if Mao attacks Kublai, we can just pillage his sea resources until we see an opening for a landing (which may not be soon). That would be the best thing to happen, since it would slow the tech pace for both of them.

 

[Kodii]

Another thing that I noticed a while back, but forgot to mention were DPs between AIs. I'm not quite sure which ones.

 

[Compromise]

What's our strategy for the end-game here? We're behind on tech. Way behind Mansa, and maybe 20-30 turns behind the others (at least in relevant military tech). I'm hoping we can sink or repel some of Mao's invasion force. That would leave him open to a counterstrike.

Biz will attack Hatshepsut for tech. I'd say when the time comes, we try to do that, then join in on one side or the other.

We're in the black at 80% science, so our cash flow is pretty good. We've also got the most land, though a lot of it is not within a city radius.

We could probably pillage (at least towns, etc.) as much as possible while razing cities so that the AI doesn't just move in and set up shop. Alternatively, we could keep the cities and just have them pump out troops. Any thoughts?

I could see us either doing a series of little attacks or biding our time, building up an ungodly force, then raze the cities of the spaceship frontrunners. Preferably from the safety of an immense naval stack.

I'm just not experienced at this late-game warfare, so any advice is welcome.

 

[Kodii]

I'll play now.

As for strategy, I myself am a newb at modern warfare. I'm leaning towards trying out the Sirian Doctrine on the coastal cities, then going inwards and pillaging around well-defended cities. Then, in the end, our forces can come together, and hopefully have enough power to raze the city. If not, then we can make peace for techs and rinse and repeat for other civs.

 

[Kodii]

- Hatty builds all SS Casings
- Santiago completes Ironworks
- Factories all around!
- Kublai builds Apollo Program
- Everyone with Apollo Program builds tons of parts
- Hatty completes the Pentagon
- Seems like the "Largest Civilization in the World" is a popular topic between great writers. We are still the largest.
- Industrialism comes in. We have one source of aluminum (under Osaka!). There is another one between Tedmekka, but we don't own that anymore.

There is a triangle of defensive pacts. Mao and Bismarck have a DP. Mao and Huayna have a DP. Huayna and Kublai have a DP. We and Kublai have a DP.

We have money saved up. We could research artillery if we need to. We could also do some mass upgrades. I have some tanks and battleships being built. Mao would be an easy first target, but he has two DPs. Hopefully he comes for us. (Beijing is only defended by 4 infantry and 1 SAM).

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm2/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG002_AD1850_01.Civ4SavedGame

EDIT: Our graph seems to like the XTeam. We've been near or right under them for quite a while

 

[Compromise]

I'm hoping to squeeze in a turnset today on this. I can't believe Mao hasn't attacked us yet. It's been over 40 turns since I noticed that his hands are busy. We should probably knock him off just because if we attacked anyone else, he'd jump on us.

EDIT: Our graph seems to like the XTeam. We've been near or right under them for quite a while

Hey hey! New subgoal: Beat XTeam!

 

[Kodii]

Updated roster:

Kodii (just played)
Compromise (up)
Kodii (on deck)
Compromise



ruff, Oso: Just give a shout out if you have time to play a turnset!

 

[Compromise]

Okay I laughed out loud on that one .

Seriously though, if anybody else wants to play, just post (so we don't duplicate effort) and go for it.

Also, I went back and looked: we didn't get a non-4000BC screenshot in this thread until post #185. It'll probably be around #90 in SGOTM3. Does that mean we should finish that game in half the time?

 

[Compromise]

1853: Huayna builds Apollo
1859: Mansa builds Thrusters
1860: We get Radio (I decide we need mech inf!)
1867: Hatty builds 3 Gorges

Okay, my computer's really bogging down on this one. I don't know if we'll be able to finish before the computer beats us. Here's my recommendation: Build up just an ungodly stack of battleships, destroyers, transports. I don't know what enough is, but maybe 30-50 of each ship type with the transports filled to capacity with units of all types, especially mech inf (gunships don't get a bonus on them).

Then, park this outside Timbuktu. Instantly remove all defense. Take all but one unit. Let him reinforce it. Pound the resulting no-fortification, no cultural defense mess. Repeat. Eventually, he'll stop sending much. Then we move in and raze it. We do that to all his core cities, most of which are inland.

Meanwhile, once we get the mech inf tech, all we do is pump military. We turn off research so we can cash rush and upgrade (What's the best unit you can draft?)

Then, we just go for it, always attacking the spaceship leader. Our biggest problem now is probably getting our troops in position before the AIs launch.

What do you think?

 

[Kodii]

Yes, thats what I was thinking as well. I looks like the order is roughly like this:

Mansa, then Hatty, then Mao, then Huayna. I would like to keep off Kublai for as long as possible, in case we can bribe him into some wars.

 

[Compromise]

Cool. Note that when I dialed up Kublai at some point in this turnset, he encouraged me to stop trading with his bitter enemy: Mansa!

Also, Biz hates Hatty and vice versa. Only Biz is likely to be close enough in tech that we could bribe him to war. I recommend doing that before we go after Hatty.

I figure we're still probably 50 turns from attacking. Mao still has "enough on his hands" and Mansa won't talk to us.

 

[Kodii]

If you want to, you could continue playing this as if it was just a solo game. Since there are only two of us at the moment...

 

[Compromise]

Ha! I was going to make the same offer to you!

I had a lot of time for Civ today (and this past week in general) which was great timing for this and SGOTM3. The weekend is out for me, and next week it'll be more difficult to find time to play. If I get a block of time, I'll try to play an extended turnset. Maybe Monday, Tuesday is more likely.

Feel free to advance the game as far as you want (to completion even) in the meantime. Probably best to post every 20-30 turns though, just in case someone else wants to run a few turns.

I seriously can't believe Mansa's city on our island never flipped back to us. Is there some rule about cities not flipping if you offer them in a peace treaty?