SGOTM 03 - Team VQ

frankcor · Jan 25, 2007

What could you possibly need cash for on a honeymoon? Maybe for tipping the room-service waiters?

namliaM · Jan 25, 2007

Sorry for the delayed report... but here it finaly is... first off the link to the much anticipated save

And the autolog generated by uploading

Spoiler Autolog :

Before doing anything I did some looking around....I found a MEDIC Grenny just playing hopskotch in Shandong, to the front he runs...
A warrior hidding in Rostov, which was promptly send to the hunting fields. And sacrificed some population in our holy to bring forth the mighty law in the form of a courthouse (gaining some 5 GPT)
Well you allready know what I did first thing... I captured us a worker from Alex and in doing so offcourse declared war. Also that first turn I got a look into all of his cities and saw that all was well....

Here is a small cut from the autolog....
Turn 295, 1430 AD: VQ's Maceman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 295, 1430 AD: VQ's Maceman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 295, 1430 AD: VQ's Frigate has defeated Alexander's Caravel!
Turn 296, 1436 AD: VQ's Frigate has defeated Alexander's Galleon!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: VQ's Cannon has defeated Alexander's Longbowman!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: Nebuchadrezzar II (Great General) has been born in Cottage Ville (VQ)!I used him for an Instructor in Yaroslavl.
Turn 298, 1448 AD: VQ's Maceman has defeated Alexander's Longbowman!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: VQ's Trebuchet has defeated Alexander's Longbowman!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: VQ's Cannon has defeated Alexander's Phalanx!
Turn 298, 1448 AD: You have captured Sparta!!!
Turn 300, 1460 AD: VQ's Cannon has defeated Alexander's Longbowman!
Turn 300, 1460 AD: VQ's Cannon has defeated Alexander's Longbowman!
Turn 300, 1460 AD: VQ's Maceman has defeated Alexander's War Elephant!
Turn 300, 1460 AD: VQ's Maceman has defeated Alexander's Axeman!
Turn 300, 1460 AD: You have captured Knossos!!!
Turn 300, 1460 AD: VQ's Grenadier has defeated Alexander's Longbowman!
Turn 300, 1460 AD: VQ's Maceman has defeated Alexander's Phalanx!
Turn 300, 1460 AD: You have captured Mycenae!!!
Turn 302, 1472 AD: VQ's Cannon has defeated Alexander's Longbowman!
Turn 302, 1472 AD: VQ's Cannon has defeated Alexander's Longbowman!
Turn 302, 1472 AD: VQ's Pikeman has defeated Alexander's Phalanx!
Turn 302, 1472 AD: You have captured Corinth!!!
Turn 302, 1472 AD: The Greek Civilization has been destroyed!!!

Notice that we didnt lose a single unit while capturing 4 cities... Offcourse Cannons and Grenadiers vs Longbows = FUN!

I also got the opportunity to use some Mace and Pikemen to get them towards that lofty goal of CR3...

--- TBC ---

bobrath · Jan 25, 2007

mmmm.... I cheated and looked at the log. Looking forward to the rest of the story!

namliaM · Jan 25, 2007

frankcor said:
Maybe for tipping the room-service waiters?

And paying for the stuff they deliver...

Also we may eventually want to have a look at the beach or something ....

Anyway on with the log...
Back to the start of the game... After declaring on Alex I went around and shopped a little...

Some new deals, some re-new deals for a little more GPT :cool:

After whiping out Alex there was not really all that much to it really as I was sailing over our forces to HC/Hathy in preperation for Monty or Mansa.... And also it was getting quite late so I saved the game and asked who we were gunning for...

Mao comes by on the inner turn asking if we can help him. Tho we have only the -2 with him right now I dont think we can get him to vote for us anymore.... so I deny his request.
Hathy addopts free market... And I deny a trade suggested by Saladin... I dont think Nationalism is quite that valuable....
Hathy brings to live a Great Engineer as we finish our first national wonder, The Herioc Epic is ONLINE! And with the HE, the Instructor and the Stables we can make 5 xp Ground troops or 7xp Horses or 2xp Ships... in a matter of just turns...

Even better if we can add Westpoint here too...

1466 we are presented a list of most advanced people ... Not counting the soon to be dead Mansa and possible target Vicky (more on this later in my :evil:

plans), it appears that Hathy is the most advanced and that Gandhi is not to far down on the AI list either...
That same year, Gandhi gets upped in that list by me... as we part with Sci Meth and pick up Nationalism and 280g for pocket change...
It is quite some more gold than Saladin was offering and he is our future partner....
Tokugowa comes and asks us to stop trading with Mansa... I see no reason to deny his request... BUT maybe it is smart to wait for this deal to expire and pick up one last trade (Tech and Gold) from Mansa before declaring war on him.
And something I find totaly strange... Alex with the SOLED (tm) knocking on his door desides to revolt twice in 2 turns. This doesnt help, but also would not have saved him... (AI do get the 1 turn anarchy right?)
SOLED => Stack Of, Life Ending, Doom

I get to do some -peacefull- sailing around and gather some intell on the heavy :crazyeye:

defences of Monty...
And as we need more gold than a toothless Pirate... I grand the americans knowledge of Theology for the mear cost of their maps and a 110 gold. Me beeing in a good mood and all for going on my Honeymoon, Fredrick gets the same deal... Except without the maps...
We generate a great person from Moscow... Offcourse this is a merchant who sets sail for the other side of the world... Monty's capitol...

Some more intel gathering HC this time, and Cyrus comes up with an intresting offer... but I have to say no... He is appearently still happy enough with us to do a DP despite the diplo negatives.
More and more intel...

--- TBC ---

namliaM · Jan 25, 2007

bobrath said:
Looking forward to the rest of the story!

What story?? I am just stating what happened not even trying to make things up...

Back to the future :crazyeye:

So That is what happened in my set... which is nearly NADA.... now for the things that may happen....
Hathy is willing to do some trades... Tho I dont know if it is worth it to help the <soon to be> top dog AI.

She is also willing to declare war on Cyrus or Gandhi... But I dont think that is worth it at all... more so if we are going for a PA with Gandhi and leaving Hathy alive and voting (for us)
Mansa has a galleon out to the southeast, which I have been tracking with 2 Frigates... I suggest we sink it the moment we declare war...

While on that subject... This is what Mansa sees when he looks over his border(s)...

Those actually are 5 frigates with one more I think just east of those.
Also a cannon and IIRC a Maceman just off the screeny to the south of Niani.
Now on to Toku

This is verry intresting, he is totaly backward and allready high up in the running for population. Also he is willing to declare war on the world in exchange for some techs, making him a total reject unlikely to get ANY votes at all...

Victoria... is actually willing to backstab Gandhi too

for what I think is very cheap indeed...

Looking at the power bar and knowing Gandhi has quite a few more cities => Pop, Barracks, walls which all count into power. We can reliably predict that Victoria has quite a few more units than Gandhi has. So if we have Victoria fight Gandhi... Gandhi will probably lose... which we dont want...
Well now... Before we can sign a PA we need to have a DP for quite some turns or.... Have a mutual strugle... Well we have 2 right there, Victoria and Toku ....
In both situations we will have to have some helping forces in place to support Gandhi... we all know he sucks at warfare... So, my "big bad plan" is to get some units over to the English/Indian border towns and have Victoria declare war on Gandhi, the moment Gandhi asks for our help OR if Victoria starts sending units (or just right away) we declare too, getting the Mutual struggle going.
Then once Victoria is done sending the big chunk of her units (like AI usually do) we walk in and take over the cities. Pillage EVERYTHING you can find EVERYTHING! and gift the cities to Gandhi. Knowing AI he will Gladly accept.

Rince and repeat with Toku, kindoff ... try to protect that lone city of Gandhi on the lands of Toku... and just let it be. Do NOT conquer Toku, he is to be our opponent in the Diplo race.
IF toku is not our opponent we go capture cities for him. Find cities to his west, conquer them and gift them to him.

In closing I give you these 2 screenies...

1) Our great merchant just jumped off to check out German lands a little... but is heading for Monty's capitol I think...
2) If we declare war on Mansa we have the Caravel nearby to spy on the city ... maybe even first, before declaring war? It may be a suicide mission with the galeon near by, but may well be worth it...

I think we are (more than) ready for Mansa.... *Go get 'em boys*

bobrath · Jan 25, 2007

IIRC if you buy someone into a war, you get a negative with the target... So buying Vicky into attacking Ghandi might push him away from being willing to keep us with him. Again, IIRC. I'm all for getting a PA, but we need to be certain that we'll fulfill the conditions that lead to one (beyond just having good relations and either a DP or mutual struggle for long enough).

I am suprised that Tok is willing to go OB with us!!! and can be bought for such well known techs.

As always tho Namliam, great work. Now go enjoy your honeymoon and forget about anything non-relaxtion related!!!

The rest of us can see about making this all work out. So my questions to the assembled masses:
1) Attack Mansa right away next?
2) Research target preferences? (What was the GM going to bulb for us anyway?)
3) Other thoughts or guidances?

Cosmichail · Jan 25, 2007

For PA you need to be friendly with the intended partner and you also need Fascism or Communism. (fascism cheaper and available earlier if you go military tech route but for us communism is closer) Being at the top might be a deterrent too since the AI may see us as too powerful.
In addition as already stated you will need to be in DP or mutual struggle for a while. The idea to get Vicky to attack Gandhi will defeat (I think) the PA idea since bribing a civ to war does create a negative iirc. Since Gandhi isn't that advanced and Hatty/Vicky are, why not consider one of them for PA. Why as we all know PA shares all technologies and would save us a heap in research although once in a PA the amount of beakers needed for research will increase. Again we might be too powerful for a PA now. Don't forget too the PA applies to AI as well and other AI's may engage in it and Mansa already has communism.

I am not 100% sure but the PA partner borders even out regardless of culture remembering VQ06b. (Cyrus borders evened out if iirc) So Hatty wouldn't be that much trouble culture wise but we need to be sure about the borders.

I am unsure about attacking MM right away as one thing bothers me:

Vicky, Cyrus have MT already and knowing MM as soon as he is in danger will get MT quickly and we will have to face Cavalry. Pikes do nothing much against cavs and grens aren't that great against them. We are ready to go and see that we have a nice flow of troops happening. Also MM with his wealth will bribe another to war against us so we should be prepared. In all my SP warlords games it always happens every single time especially against Mansa. I notice our defenses on China/Greece/mainland are weak so we should keep a strong navy to deal with any incursions. Mansa isn't that well liked except maybe by three or four civs.

The mini stack that we have there (although it's nice to get those maces to CR3 level before upgrading) we have to remember we are up against rifles here not longbows so maces will only do any good against severely weakened rifles. This won't be near as easy as Greece and we will need a good steady flow of troops.

As to research we are almost near our goal of getting Mass Media (9 turns left on Radio) but I really don't think we are ready to win the vote. The PA boat might be missed since it does take quite a while before it takes place and we are like 19 turns away from starting the UN. It does appear that Toku has the largest pop and will likely be the competition. If not the plan to take cities west of him seems a bit way out I think since it means us getting negatives for declaring etc etc and involving building more troops and sometimes the AI does not always take cities you intend to gift. So that's iffy and maybe the other contender is Huyana.

Here's another thought too that we should consider. Right now we are beelining to Mass Media but how long you think it takes before AI goes for combustion and we have to deal with destroyers. We enjoy a naval superiority right now but if destroyers are out there then we will have to sneak around to get our troops mobilised.

So the big question:

War with MM now? NO as the stack is not enough. (maces don't cut it against rifles.)

We have a lot of intel but none on MM's cities the intended target???? We should bring a caravel to his shores and see what he has as no smart soldier goes into battle without scouting first. I do see the pic on the caravel near by and we should use him to get some idea on the strategic situation. Scout first declare if we can take it on.

namliaM · Jan 25, 2007

OK all valid points.... I forgot about the -1 you brought an Ally .... :mad:

The AI get to know this, we can only guess if someone is bribed into a war...
The plan can still work if... we change say Vicky and Gandhi (or Hathy and Gandhi) because you do not get diplo minus for "helping" the civ in question on declaring war...

The Merchant will bulb 1500+change towards Economics, while probably bringing 2500+ gold on the traderoute.
I think we are ready for Mansa .... but if we are thinking we are spread to thin on Mansa right now... Go for HC, he is just a few turns away thru Egypt and we have plenty of intel on him AND from that intel he is as weak as Alex was....

I had another look at the save, Victoria is also willing to part with RP on the declare war on Gandhi deal. RP will put us a few steps/turn closer to riffling to cover for some of those feared Cavalry....

IMHO Victoria (if not Gandhi) is the most likely to be our PA partner, due to the diplo -/- we will get with Hathy if/when we declare war on Mansa.

Getting the PA will take a while... but the UN have to be build too... and that is a big (turnswize) investment. IIRC some 30-40 turns...

Anyway these are my last thoughts for you to consider... I am heading of into the sunrize

Cosmichail · Jan 25, 2007

Have a good flight Eric and enjoy your honeymoon.

GreyFox · Jan 26, 2007

I also think we shouldn't be warring MM.

Look at the relationship screen (it's the single most important screen for players aspiring a diplo win):

The blue box identifies the group of people we want to get friendly with. This means that any row with a green figure on within the box, we can't declare on them. Looking at it, Mansa and Hatty are about to marry each other. If we declare, Hatty would most likely close borders.

From the screen, I still think Monty is one. Or Louis. And we should finish off Mao and gift the city to cyrus.

Study the relationship, and say how you think we should proceed.

Having briefly looked at the save, I have a few comments.

- We still do not have enough ships. The quickest way to conduct warfare on this map is the Sirian Doctrine: A stack of transports and escorts go around visiting each enemy city. The escorts doubles as city defense bombardments. Currently we have like what? 5 galleons and 9 frigates. minus off half of the frigates for resource guard duty, we can barely form one stack. We should at least double our ships.

- What is St Pete doing building the globe? Why not the Nat Epic? Whatever happen to the plan of running a SE?

bobrath · Jan 26, 2007

I have no idea why we would build the Globe in this map... we're not going to be overwhipping any site and that's just pure lost hammers IMO.

Now, given the above diplo driven war criteria - seems like HC and Monty are obvious targets. They love each other and none of our "core" group even likes them. Tack on Fredrick followed by Louis and KK. I don't know how that works from a physical point of view (massive spread empire anyone?), but we'd be eliminating civs with little damage to our relationships. HOWEVER, we do need to consider who will be our opponent in the vote and make sure we take out civs that favor our opponent over us while still keeping relationships positive with the pro-russian block. Balancing act woo hoo! Are we going to accept Tok as the largest (IIRC he is right now) or do we want to work towards "promoting" some other civ by gifting cities?

So, if I ignore any civ that has a green relation with our "core" blue group:
If Tok is our opponent then the civs that like him better then us are:
Louis (5 to 0)
KK (+7green to +5)

If Ghandi then:
Louis (1 to 0)

No idea on who else we might end up going up against.

HC is definitely less liked then Louis by our core group, so given our desire to be voted "best leader ever", I'd suggest that HC is low hanging fruit for our current forces, but eliminating Louis after that would be a logical step. However, do we want to take Louis out now before his relations with our "core" improve to invasion stopping levels?

Declaring on Louis will give tick off HC and KK right away (both green to him), while declaring on HC only makes Monty angry. :lol:

Again, I have not looked at the map to know if moving on Louis is even reasonable from a geographic/physcial standpoint.

Alright, enough staring at the screen (thanks for posting it GreyFox). Time for input from the rest of the team. I'll let things percolate and play either much later tonight or tomorrow morning.

Scowler · Jan 26, 2007

Hi gang! I've just had a phone-call from dot and he asked me to tell y'all that he's currently without Internet access and won't be likely to get it back before next weekend at the earliest. :sad:

As for myself, I'll need to take a look at the save before I comment on our next move, but I'll do that tonight and tomorrow when I have a bit more time.

Cosmichail · Jan 26, 2007

Yes HC is a much better target. That diplo screen also shows that Hatty/Mansa are likely to go into a PA soon and Mansa does have communism so it's possible. If that's the case then the contender at the UN will be them. So what do we do guys? This is tricky indeed as other AI's once getting communism/fascism will consider PA and we might be too high on the score list to be considered now. The only one that might be close to PA for us if the score isn't a issue is Vicky. (we only need 1 point to get her friendly)

If Hatty/Mansa do sign PA with each other then they will be tough to take on as I am sure it's only a matter of time before they get to combustion. Destroyers will cramp our navy big time and we should think about once getting Mass media improving our navy technology asap. I agree too Greyfox that we do not have enough of a navy right now and also think our army is not capable of even taking on Mansa since he obviously has rifles but we don't have intel on what's in his cities. (five or six grens/cannons and the rest maces isn't enough not near enough)

Staring at that screen tell me too that if we war against HC, Monty will likely get involved too so a two front war is likely in that circumstance.

We have to rethink our strategy and we should finish off Mao but again we get negatives with JC/Cryus. Maybe gifting those cities to Cyrus will help but I don't know I don't think he'll take Chengdu but likely Macau. For Macau we would need to move a couple galleons/frigates a considerable distance but getting rid of Mao might be worth it as doesn't the declare on war friend disappear if you get rid of him.

Last points:

1. Take on HC since he is weak and we won't get hit diplomatically. (except Monty but who cares he hates us anyways)
2. If Hatty/Mansa PA then they are enemy no. 1
3. Build up navy and army so we should only be building military now.
4. Trade techs more aggressively as I noticed Gandhi had quite a bit to trade. Get us to combustion faster.

In the end we should have been watching diplo more and realized being no. 1 isn't always the best with PA situation. Also we might want to think about getting Vicky involved with HC war since she doesn't like him either and that might bump us up to friendly. We do need to get a hold of fascism or communism.

How about Dot/Scowler we need to hear your opinions please.

Cosmichail · Jan 26, 2007

Roster

- namliaM == just played (OOP Jan 25 2007 thru Feb 18)
- bobrath == UP
- GreyFox == on deck
- Cosmic
- Scowler (weekends only)
- Dot == skip until Feb. 3/07 no net access

- RoboKai / FuRRie == Auto-Skip

Just thought I'd post a roster.

Cosmichail · Jan 26, 2007

Ok sorry for the triple post but I just had another thought too. Greyfox about the globe in St. Petes I too think that HE would be better. I have suggested several times going to caste system and pumping St.Petes/Beijing with scientists but it wasn't really considered. It was discussed by the team before and I still think speeding up our science is worth it especially when we need two techs:

1. Communism
2. Combustion

We are 19 turns away from Mass Media and considering our diplo situation we don't have the vote but if Toku is contender then we have a good chance. If Hatty/Mansa PA then we are up against them and they will take it I think.

Why don't we hold off on Mass Media for a bit since the AI isn't shooting in that direction yet and get us communism pronto and then go for mass media. We can then see if Vicky is willing to entertain a PA then. If/when mansa/hatty PA then we will drop in position and Vicky with a friendly attitude (ergo needing to get her there and war with HC is a good method) will PA with us. Hopefully that will put us on top again and taking HC's lands will make the difference. What will hurt us though is all that distance of his cities so communism even sounds better for state property. Just thinking guys but I think we need communism first then mass media since building the UN now won't give us the desired results yet.

bobrath · Jan 26, 2007

ease up a bit there Cosmic...

In order for a PA to even show up, there would either have to be wars going on OR civs in some DPs. Take a look at the dip screen and tell me if you see any (can't look while I'm at work still). Without either, the chances of Hatty and MM going PA is far, far distant. I'm not willing to spend a lot of time on that circumstance yet (course if it turns out they're currently in a DP then this all changes).

In my experience, I can't recall negatives for "declaring on a friend" going away if the friend is removed. IIRC they stick with you for a very long time.

I do agree that holding off on the UN build is a good idea. I've actually had building the UN backfire on me. I was walking into an easy conquest win (leaving the most fearsome AI for last) and as normal I voted for myself in all UN votes... To my suprise, every single opposing AI voted for the other leader and my win turned into a loss. Once the UN is built, there is a mechanic out there that can't be controlled. You can't send spies to sabotage the vote. You can't predict the popping of a legendary cultral city. However, we need to be sure we get it built which means either having GEs in waiting or pre-building it to within a turn or two (and accepting the hammer decay).

Regarding Mao... I just don't see that him being around (for now) as being that big of a deal. His culture isn't really pressing us badly and we (imo) can handle the return to fatherland unhappy for a while. Detouring our major campaign for his piddly split empire just seems like a poor decision. If you really want to smack him a bit, then we take out the closer city (Chengdu?) and then settle for peace again OR pay Cyrus or some other AI to do it for us.

A HC (and eventually Monty) war should not turn into a two front (more then it already is). We can use Hatty's lands as staging points, combined with a navy to supress any landing attempts and Monty will have to come through HC lands to get to us. I'm really not worried about Monty choosing to fall on our swords.

Cosmichail · Jan 26, 2007

ease up a bit there Cosmic...

Don't understand this, ease up on what....the obvious?

You asked for input so that's what I did so I am totally mystified.

I'm not willing to spend a lot of time on that circumstance yet (course if it turns out they're currently in a DP then this all changes).

How would my opinions/suggestions cause that to happen. They are not in a DP but we should consider that it is a possibility. By the time we get UN built they may well be. (come on man +15 as soon as DP is available they go for it trust me. Go bury your head in the sand but I see the obvious and they will PA once DP is place for a while. Even Greyfox stated they are ready to get married and it's only a matter of time before Mansa has MT)

Regarding Mao was Greyfox's suggestion and I am only trying to see his point but too don't see the need whilst we have troops ready in Egypt which by the way are positioned to attack Mansa and will take some time to get to HC's front. Why did we put those troops there and not scout him out first to see if we actually could take him on??????

Re: HC/Monty

All I said is we should be prepared for it nothing more. We might, just might end up in a two front war and the last one with Monty was a "fake war" so I am not worried about it just like to be prepared.

I apoligize for my comments, suggestions and will take a back seat for a while. I don't want to steer us in the wrong direction. So I will ease up and check in when my turn is up.

Again when I was a lurker in the first SGOTM VQ didn't even see the DP's in place and am just wanting to make sure we don't miss it. Is that so bad. PA's are complicated and being at the top can discourage an AI from PAing with us. I almost wish Hatty/Mansa were in a DP and ready to PA so we could move down in position and get Vicky as PA partner. Of course we need MT/communism (yes I missed MT which we will need too or a mutual war for a while but the AI is bad for making peace fast so that might not be enough)

bobrath · Jan 26, 2007

Sorry if my tone didn't come across as playful as I meant it to be. I'll try to use more

and

where possible.

I very much want opinions and thoughts and you can expect I'll fire back and question them, just like I'd expect folks to question mine. Its all good and all love here man!

EDIT:
Part of my reasoning is skewed because in my SP games I've rarely seen PAs show up between the civs. Dunno if its my play style or my luck that causes that tho. Anyways, that's part of (I guess) why I came off knocking that thought down so hard. Again apologies for the tone.

Cosmichail · Jan 26, 2007

Ok I am a bit touchy and in writing one cannot detect the tone in it as one would face to face.

I have had an AI PA on me in an SP game especially when the circumstances are ripe. Which are the following conditions:

1. Friendly
2. DP/mutual struggle for a while
3. one has communism or fascism

All these conditions may well be met soon with Mansa/Hatty and it's something we need to be aware of. I too have played numerous games with PA and the AI never did but occassionally it has happened to me. I rarely play with it enabled now as I don't find the game as challenging with it on.

The PA sounds great but just as easily can be implemented by the AI. As soon as we see Hatty/Mansa in a DP then we should think about what actions to take then as PA partners they will be difficult to take on and somehow I just envision it happening. I hope I am wrong really but I just have a gut feeling. Just that +15 is a big factor and if we can do something to sour the relationship the better.

I agree we should question each others opinions actions to motivate debate. I am too wondering why we are building maces when we have no money to upgrade them. Although didn't namliaM send a merchant on a mission somewhere. I just was looking at the actual research time for Mass Media and not sure if we can maintain 100% science unless we have lots to sell. 19 turns might not be realistic.

My play style is to have much larger army then what we have and would like to see that improved. There is quite a few cities there to take on HC's lands and we will need more troops than that although he isn't that strong I have come across where one is in the middle of battle and all of sudden he has rifles from longbows.

bobrath · Jan 26, 2007

Namliam's merchant mission is supposed to head to Monty's capital (per Namliam), but is currently checking out some city for us... See one of Namliam's screenshots. IIRC forecast of 2500g for the trade mission is what Namliam was thinking. That is about 9 turns of 100% research at our current economy. So no, 19 turns is doubtful for us.

I do agree we need to up the military count, and that was going to be the brunt of my turns. I may end up declaring on HC just to stay ahead of the research curve, but I hope to crank out a more respectable Navy and Army - course I think this is why GreyFox put me in front of him. Seems like I'm always the setup guy for his hammer!

SGOTM 03 - Team VQ

Emperor

Deity

Emperor

Deity

Deity

Emperor

Dark Lord of The Sith

Deity

Dark Lord of The Sith

Make it so ...

Emperor

Mr. Understatement

Dark Lord of The Sith

Dark Lord of The Sith

Dark Lord of The Sith

Emperor

Dark Lord of The Sith

Emperor

Dark Lord of The Sith

Emperor

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