SGOTM 03 - Team VQ
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
After a second look at the picture of the DP's from my turn I notice that I missed the small blue lines in between KK - Washington, Washington - Louis, Louis - Saladin, and the more visible ones Hatty - Saladin, Mansa - Saladin, and KK - Toku. making that 6 DP's or more. Have a good look at the picture and Bob hopefully you noticed this in game as well. It's really hard to see at first the blue lines as the picture is shrunk but there are quite a few and it is easily missed. Some of the lines appear to come from KK to another too. It would be easier if there was another method of see the DP's in place. The screen when this crowded makes it hard to see who is in DP with whom when they are close/next to each other.
bobrath
Emperor
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Yup, I saw those DPs. I ended up just cycling through each leader to see lines to him/her only. Made it easier to spot. Out come of that (and hasn't changed at all during my turns:
Mansa is in DP with Hatty & Saladin
Hatty is in DP with Mansa & Saladin
Saladin is in DP with Hatty, Mansa, & George (!)
George is in DP with Saladin & Kublai (!!)
Kublai is in DP with George, Louis, & Tokugowa (!!!)
Tokugowa is in DP with Kublai
Louis is in DP with Kublai
So what does that mean? Attacking any of the above means they *all* jump in on us. World War indeed.
I'll come back later and screen shot up, but here's the highlights and lowlights of my ten turns.
Built the UN
Gifted Vilcamba to Freddy
Massive counter attack by Monty on Texoco - close to losing, but we keep it and mop up a ton of retreated cavalry.
Macau revolted to Cyrus in 1727
Captured Tlatelolco
Win Sec Gen (have 279 votes of the 558 required to win it of 1395 total)
MM offers us Combustion + gold for Biology (I take this)
Captured Teotihuancan (& Versailles & destroy 10+ ships in port)
Captured Tlaxcala
Monty retakes Teotihuacan
Recapture Teotihuacan the same turn
grumble
Dip vote comes up, since we got 697 in the Sec Gen its worth a try.
We get 559 votes for us of the required 887
Monty makes peace with Izzy
Lots of folks have emancipated
We're running 20% luxury to counter the WW and Emancipation unhappy
*phew!!*
We still have a relative monoploy on Biology, Neither Ghandi nor Mansa have traded it around. Next player can use BIology to bribe for votes and gold and techs.
Monty will become a vassal and give us Mycena (far far far SE of his empire). I still believe that having the -1 for a vassal hurts us more then finishing the war early and grabbing Monty's votes... but I might be wrong.
Here's the important screen shot (my screen isn't large enough to show the glance screen sorry!):
If we can get JC, MM, and Hatty to vote for us instead of abstaining, we'd win. (and obviously if we wipe out Monty his votes become our votes and reduce the margin).
I think Free religion might really break up some ties between our DP folks. Not sure if it would make Tok more or less desirable to the fence sitters tho.
Oh yeah... Vicki is willing to PA with us.
The Save
The HoF Autolog (of concise politeness)
Mansa is in DP with Hatty & Saladin
Hatty is in DP with Mansa & Saladin
Saladin is in DP with Hatty, Mansa, & George (!)
George is in DP with Saladin & Kublai (!!)
Kublai is in DP with George, Louis, & Tokugowa (!!!)
Tokugowa is in DP with Kublai
Louis is in DP with Kublai
So what does that mean? Attacking any of the above means they *all* jump in on us. World War indeed.
I'll come back later and screen shot up, but here's the highlights and lowlights of my ten turns.
Built the UN
Gifted Vilcamba to Freddy
Massive counter attack by Monty on Texoco - close to losing, but we keep it and mop up a ton of retreated cavalry.
Macau revolted to Cyrus in 1727
Captured Tlatelolco
Win Sec Gen (have 279 votes of the 558 required to win it of 1395 total)
MM offers us Combustion + gold for Biology (I take this)
Captured Teotihuancan (& Versailles & destroy 10+ ships in port)
Captured Tlaxcala
Monty retakes Teotihuacan
Recapture Teotihuacan the same turn
grumbleDip vote comes up, since we got 697 in the Sec Gen its worth a try.
We get 559 votes for us of the required 887
Monty makes peace with Izzy
Lots of folks have emancipated
We're running 20% luxury to counter the WW and Emancipation unhappy
*phew!!*
We still have a relative monoploy on Biology, Neither Ghandi nor Mansa have traded it around. Next player can use BIology to bribe for votes and gold and techs.
Monty will become a vassal and give us Mycena (far far far SE of his empire). I still believe that having the -1 for a vassal hurts us more then finishing the war early and grabbing Monty's votes... but I might be wrong.
Here's the important screen shot (my screen isn't large enough to show the glance screen sorry!):
If we can get JC, MM, and Hatty to vote for us instead of abstaining, we'd win. (and obviously if we wipe out Monty his votes become our votes and reduce the margin).
I think Free religion might really break up some ties between our DP folks. Not sure if it would make Tok more or less desirable to the fence sitters tho.
Oh yeah... Vicki is willing to PA with us.
The Save
The HoF Autolog (of concise politeness)
Spoiler :
bobrath
Emperor
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Here's the battle royal the next player gets on their very first turn:
I landed the units instead of an amphibious assault because that -50% along with the hill defense (and all the CD promotions) made even our best Arty's go in with ~27%. They've been landed on my turn, so hit enter - handle any minor counter attack - and begin the fun.
and part 2 (cause its just that long)
I landed the units instead of an amphibious assault because that -50% along with the hill defense (and all the CD promotions) made even our best Arty's go in with ~27%. They've been landed on my turn, so hit enter - handle any minor counter attack - and begin the fun.
and part 2 (cause its just that long)
Spoiler :
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Great progress! The war seems to go on well.
RE those DPs: Without having looked at the save, I suspect our only possible war target is Freddie
Hatty should be easy to convert. MM and JC are the difficult ones. But even with all 3 casting their votes to us, we are still some votes short (using the last displayed voting results, we need 328 more votes, whereas those 3 adds up to 268 votes). Hmm....
Need to analyse the abstainees' attitude towards Vicky to see if PA is worthwhile.
Assuming Trash Team wins at 1826AD, we have less than 100 years.
--
RE those DPs: Without having looked at the save, I suspect our only possible war target is Freddie
Hatty should be easy to convert. MM and JC are the difficult ones. But even with all 3 casting their votes to us, we are still some votes short (using the last displayed voting results, we need 328 more votes, whereas those 3 adds up to 268 votes). Hmm....
Need to analyse the abstainees' attitude towards Vicky to see if PA is worthwhile.
Assuming Trash Team wins at 1826AD, we have less than 100 years.
--
As GreyFox pointed out earlier, if we can force a UN resolution on Free Religion we might be able to disrupt the diplomatic nexus a little (for example, Saladin will lose something like 8 points with Mansa) - maybe this might help break some of those pacts? A resolution on Emancipation might also be useful...
If we PA with Vicky we lose the GL bonus of course (we gain Corporation); also I think we get another -1 with everybody?
On the other hand ...
If we PA with her we also gain Rocketry ... our research is doubled ... our UB gives us faster builds on spacecraft parts ...
I just wonder whether it is worth focussing our attention on Space in the meantime?
Our production doesn't seem marvellous - neither does Vicky's - and we really need factories; however the Mfg Goods graph seems to show us way ahead of everybody else.
Crazy (early morning!) thoughts or what?
If we PA with Vicky we lose the GL bonus of course (we gain Corporation); also I think we get another -1 with everybody?
On the other hand ...
If we PA with her we also gain Rocketry ... our research is doubled ... our UB gives us faster builds on spacecraft parts ...
I just wonder whether it is worth focussing our attention on Space in the meantime?
Our production doesn't seem marvellous - neither does Vicky's - and we really need factories; however the Mfg Goods graph seems to show us way ahead of everybody else.
Crazy (early morning!) thoughts or what?
GreyFox
Make it so ...
The manufacturing graphs shows the total production ... we simply have lots of individually-crappy production cities than the rest of the AIs 
I have been thinking on Space Race as well ... however, assuming we still want to beat the 1826AD date, I doubt we could complete the techs and parts in less than 60 turns.
I have been thinking on Space Race as well ... however, assuming we still want to beat the 1826AD date, I doubt we could complete the techs and parts in less than 60 turns.
bobrath
Emperor
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I thought about the emancipation thing, but we need to make sure there's nothing we want to whip out first before making that vote (say for instance the FP I started in Machu Pichu). We can mitigate the loss of the Great Lighthouse if we get corporation *and* pass the single currency measure - combined those would give us the +2 back. Obviously this is less advantageous then the +3 we'd get for not getting corporation and still passing the single currency.
I can't recall if going into a PA creates negative dip penalties. And how do the other AIs resolve their leanings if we go that route? I'm just confused because for victory conditions and all, Vicki and we would be considered a single player - but do other Civs see that?
BTW, if you can pound through the math this post might have the dip vic secrets we need...
I do think we need to spend some serious time looking at the relations of *all* civs with us and Tok (and now Vicki) to see if a dip victory is realistic. If not we have two options:
1) Forget dip victory and go whole hog on space victory. We should PA with Vicki, finish off Monty, and then just do everything we can in research and production to blitz the space ship.
2) Head directly towards backdoor/aggressive dip victory. Get the PA with Vicki. Try to break some of the DPs and start picking off any unaligned civ out there. On the home front get our cities cranking out the babies so we can up our population count. Our wars don't need to be destruction as much as burning the ground. Go on a pillage spree and start starving off any civ we fight against - we don't need (in fact don't want to) capture cities we just want them all stuck at 1 pop.
Thoghts?
I can't recall if going into a PA creates negative dip penalties. And how do the other AIs resolve their leanings if we go that route? I'm just confused because for victory conditions and all, Vicki and we would be considered a single player - but do other Civs see that?
BTW, if you can pound through the math this post might have the dip vic secrets we need...
I do think we need to spend some serious time looking at the relations of *all* civs with us and Tok (and now Vicki) to see if a dip victory is realistic. If not we have two options:
1) Forget dip victory and go whole hog on space victory. We should PA with Vicki, finish off Monty, and then just do everything we can in research and production to blitz the space ship.
2) Head directly towards backdoor/aggressive dip victory. Get the PA with Vicki. Try to break some of the DPs and start picking off any unaligned civ out there. On the home front get our cities cranking out the babies so we can up our population count. Our wars don't need to be destruction as much as burning the ground. Go on a pillage spree and start starving off any civ we fight against - we don't need (in fact don't want to) capture cities we just want them all stuck at 1 pop.
Thoghts?
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
If Louis and KK are in a DP and we declare on Louis, KK will declare on us and lot of those DP's are broken. We then mobilize and take KK's lands which may get us that necessary vote. Not having looked at the save yet and seeing Bob's stats re Diplomatic vote we need quite a few votes. Space ship is going to tough beating 1826 ad and think option 2 of Bob's post is the best right now. Also forcing them into free religion might be good and the idea of putting for the single currency to aid with the loss of the TGL.
If I recall we don't get negatives for PA as we are seen as one. It does affect how the AI looks at us and Vicky. So if they like Vicky more likely to vote for us. (this what we experienced in the SG with hamtastic which Greyfox also participated.) We had not the greatest relationship with Toku but our PA member (genghis) was a friend to Toku and he did indeed vote for us. So we might want to check how the majority of AI's feel about Vicky.
I still think diplomatic is the only way as space just takes too long but who knows how fast we can build with RI (research institute). Only problem is, it takes a lot of hammers to build it and that's where we are short of. Going for a military option is the best I think and simply use the backdoor so to speak.
I am surprised too that Monty still had some fight left in him but that guy produces cavs very fast and probably was sitting on a huge amount of them. Excellent Bob not much left of Monty and let's finish him and thnk about who's next since we are going to need those votes. I'd say declare on Louis since he is only in a DP with KK and then KK declares on us and we attack KK since he has the most desirable lands.
Having combustion now we can do a lot more damage with destroyers/transports.
If I recall we don't get negatives for PA as we are seen as one. It does affect how the AI looks at us and Vicky. So if they like Vicky more likely to vote for us. (this what we experienced in the SG with hamtastic which Greyfox also participated.) We had not the greatest relationship with Toku but our PA member (genghis) was a friend to Toku and he did indeed vote for us. So we might want to check how the majority of AI's feel about Vicky.
I still think diplomatic is the only way as space just takes too long but who knows how fast we can build with RI (research institute). Only problem is, it takes a lot of hammers to build it and that's where we are short of. Going for a military option is the best I think and simply use the backdoor so to speak.
I am surprised too that Monty still had some fight left in him but that guy produces cavs very fast and probably was sitting on a huge amount of them. Excellent Bob not much left of Monty and let's finish him and thnk about who's next since we are going to need those votes. I'd say declare on Louis since he is only in a DP with KK and then KK declares on us and we attack KK since he has the most desirable lands.
Having combustion now we can do a lot more damage with destroyers/transports.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
I'd looked at the save ... space is still a good 100+ turns away .. even with PA, it would at most shave 20 turns. It is a possible run though. Good thing is Vicky already had Rocketry.
On the diplo front, if w ePA with vicky, we would net MM's votes (he is friendly with Vicky). What we should do is to gift away Biology (maybe for some gold and democracy) to our supporters to encourage their growth.
War wise, we can go after Freddie and Cyrus. They are nearby and without any defensive pact yet. However, they are also relatively small fly.
A more risky gambit is to declare on Louis or Washy. Assumption here is that if we declare on Washy, Sally due to the DP will declare on us, thus nullifying the DP has has with Hatty and MM. War can be a good way to dissolve these annoying DPs. O-course, Sally and Washy are both small (holding 122 votes in total only). I would be more interested to go after KK, a whopping 134 cotes.
We have to make a quick decision on which route (space vs diplo, ironically, diplo means war) take. Myself, I am more inclined towards the war path ... but 328 votes is quite difficult to achieve considering we only have 307 votes ourselves.
--
On the diplo front, if w ePA with vicky, we would net MM's votes (he is friendly with Vicky). What we should do is to gift away Biology (maybe for some gold and democracy) to our supporters to encourage their growth.
War wise, we can go after Freddie and Cyrus. They are nearby and without any defensive pact yet. However, they are also relatively small fly.
A more risky gambit is to declare on Louis or Washy. Assumption here is that if we declare on Washy, Sally due to the DP will declare on us, thus nullifying the DP has has with Hatty and MM. War can be a good way to dissolve these annoying DPs. O-course, Sally and Washy are both small (holding 122 votes in total only). I would be more interested to go after KK, a whopping 134 cotes.
We have to make a quick decision on which route (space vs diplo, ironically, diplo means war) take. Myself, I am more inclined towards the war path ... but 328 votes is quite difficult to achieve considering we only have 307 votes ourselves.
--
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Cross-posted with Cosmic ... seems like we think alike again on the DP
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Had a look at the save and I like KK for attack as his lands are divided meaning his forces are also divided. Louis is just south of him so it wouldn't be difficult to carry on there. Only question how long are we going to take to accomplish this??
I agree Greyfox we need to decide on which route and I think PA'ing with Vicky is safe, declare on Louis. (which breaks KK/Toku DP which is more concerning then Saladin I think)
Then we should go for nothing but military builds for a while to speed up the military builds. We are building a lot of infrastructure right now and we need Yaroslav/Moscow for military. The RI is only 6 turns in Moscow so leave that and Observatory in Yaroslav is fine too but after it should continue to build military.
Just a note for the next player too I noticed that Moscow has two forests/lumbermills that haven't been railroaded yet and should do that for the extra 2 hammers. (since the city is working them)
Monty's capitol won't be overly hard but we will have to loose some arties there and should be able to take it in two turns. The nice thing too the majority of our army is near to KK as well.
Last thought and it's a crazy one. NUKES....... Build nukes and nuke the hell out of Toku and bring down some of his enemies conventionally. Just an idea as Toku is backwards and he won't have SDI/bomb shelters nor nukes to counter attack. Only problem with that is I am sure you get a negative for every nuke you use. So maybe that's too crazy but if we dominate the waters go after Toku soon and pillage his lands to nothing. Only problem there is Toku tends to harbor huge stacks of obsolete units.
Another thought is too what can we do diplomatically? That's a lot of votes to get and we will have to do a lot of fighting to get there. Getting Hatty on our side for diplomatic victory would help.
So after looking at Bob's first diplomatic victory try here's what we need to do:
1. Hatty 71 votes
2. JC 105 votes (this one is going to be tough to get as he hates Gandhi and we are trading a lot with him so getting him to friendly isn't likely unless we can pull him into a war but still not likely)
3. KK 134 votes (through conquest which always drops votes because of lost citizens.)
Just those three give us our votes. (well not quite 18 votes short)
We would have enough once we take Monty's lands.....
But even taking KK/Louis lands is not enough and we need JC more than ever.
Hatty should be able to get to friendly. JC not likely just too many negatives although he remains pleased.
Another bold idea:
Attack JC as well as KK. With Vicky as PA it will speed up the war too but how effective she will be remains to be seen.
If we want to beat 1826 we will need to make a bold move to get those votes in. A three front war Louis/KK/JC might be necessary to get us those votes fast. What we need is to build nothing but military and even turn off research. I would prefer to take on so many with infantry though and since we PA feel we should have assembly line. Having the pentagon would be nice too but that wishful thinking unless we have a GE popping somewhere.
Please understand these are suggestions and glad that Greyfox we see the same tactic is necessary in order to win soon. I am surprised that we have only 307 votes ourselves??? Look how much land we control but our pop isn't that great per city. (nothing like Toku with a city of 24 and KK has some big cities too 19/20)
I agree Greyfox we need to decide on which route and I think PA'ing with Vicky is safe, declare on Louis. (which breaks KK/Toku DP which is more concerning then Saladin I think)
Then we should go for nothing but military builds for a while to speed up the military builds. We are building a lot of infrastructure right now and we need Yaroslav/Moscow for military. The RI is only 6 turns in Moscow so leave that and Observatory in Yaroslav is fine too but after it should continue to build military.
Just a note for the next player too I noticed that Moscow has two forests/lumbermills that haven't been railroaded yet and should do that for the extra 2 hammers. (since the city is working them)
Monty's capitol won't be overly hard but we will have to loose some arties there and should be able to take it in two turns. The nice thing too the majority of our army is near to KK as well.
Last thought and it's a crazy one. NUKES....... Build nukes and nuke the hell out of Toku and bring down some of his enemies conventionally. Just an idea as Toku is backwards and he won't have SDI/bomb shelters nor nukes to counter attack. Only problem with that is I am sure you get a negative for every nuke you use. So maybe that's too crazy but if we dominate the waters go after Toku soon and pillage his lands to nothing. Only problem there is Toku tends to harbor huge stacks of obsolete units.
Another thought is too what can we do diplomatically? That's a lot of votes to get and we will have to do a lot of fighting to get there. Getting Hatty on our side for diplomatic victory would help.
So after looking at Bob's first diplomatic victory try here's what we need to do:
1. Hatty 71 votes
2. JC 105 votes (this one is going to be tough to get as he hates Gandhi and we are trading a lot with him so getting him to friendly isn't likely unless we can pull him into a war but still not likely)
3. KK 134 votes (through conquest which always drops votes because of lost citizens.)
Just those three give us our votes. (well not quite 18 votes short)
We would have enough once we take Monty's lands.....
But even taking KK/Louis lands is not enough and we need JC more than ever.
Hatty should be able to get to friendly. JC not likely just too many negatives although he remains pleased.
Another bold idea:
Attack JC as well as KK. With Vicky as PA it will speed up the war too but how effective she will be remains to be seen.
If we want to beat 1826 we will need to make a bold move to get those votes in. A three front war Louis/KK/JC might be necessary to get us those votes fast. What we need is to build nothing but military and even turn off research. I would prefer to take on so many with infantry though and since we PA feel we should have assembly line. Having the pentagon would be nice too but that wishful thinking unless we have a GE popping somewhere.
Please understand these are suggestions and glad that Greyfox we see the same tactic is necessary in order to win soon. I am surprised that we have only 307 votes ourselves??? Look how much land we control but our pop isn't that great per city. (nothing like Toku with a city of 24 and KK has some big cities too 19/20)
bobrath
Emperor
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Good points both on the non-cascading nature of DPs. Much less bleak now. I wish I had more experience with PAs so would could correctly talk about how they will affect the dip vote. However from what you guys have said above, it can only help if the more positive relation takes precedence. If that's that case (and thats an important if to verify), then there's really no reason we shouldn't get into the PA. It will help us in the coming expansion by sword.
If we go that route, do we want to convert votes to us by capturing cities or do we just want to reduce the total vote count by pillaging ad nauseum? Pillaging has the upside to providing us with a steady source of income but will require a different military (more mobile and an improved defense). We'll have to be careful about a domination victory since we can't really control Vicki's decision to grab cities and thus inadvertently push our team over the limit into a win that we don't want.
I wouldn't go crazy on gifting Biology to buy votes - get gold/techs back for it at the least we'll still see the pop growth in our friendlies that we want but I don't think we need to increase our relations with a gift notion. Probably makes sense to pass Free Religion first to see how the new diplomatic community lays out.
Monty has a bit of a spread empire left still. One island holding north of HC's land. His massively defended capital. One more island SE of his capital (I've already started bombarding those 3 cities).
Research wise... Flight is in process, and I'd like to suggest Refrigeration next mainly for the +1 to sea movement it gives us. Transports don't move any further then galleons, they just carry one extra unit. So the extra move for a tech will really help as we continue our onslaught. Just a Suggestion of course - I'm open to other tech thoughts.
If we go that route, do we want to convert votes to us by capturing cities or do we just want to reduce the total vote count by pillaging ad nauseum? Pillaging has the upside to providing us with a steady source of income but will require a different military (more mobile and an improved defense). We'll have to be careful about a domination victory since we can't really control Vicki's decision to grab cities and thus inadvertently push our team over the limit into a win that we don't want.
I wouldn't go crazy on gifting Biology to buy votes - get gold/techs back for it at the least we'll still see the pop growth in our friendlies that we want but I don't think we need to increase our relations with a gift notion. Probably makes sense to pass Free Religion first to see how the new diplomatic community lays out.
Monty has a bit of a spread empire left still. One island holding north of HC's land. His massively defended capital. One more island SE of his capital (I've already started bombarding those 3 cities).
Research wise... Flight is in process, and I'd like to suggest Refrigeration next mainly for the +1 to sea movement it gives us. Transports don't move any further then galleons, they just carry one extra unit. So the extra move for a tech will really help as we continue our onslaught. Just a Suggestion of course - I'm open to other tech thoughts.
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Good point that will help our sea faring abilities considerably. I like to play Ragnar and that extra sea movement can make a big difference so I'm all for it.
bobrath
Emperor
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Follow up to Cosmic's cross post with mine.
I started some infra build in case we decided to make a space run. We've got an acceptable army in the field for finishing off Monty (really depends on how the capital battle goes). I would suggest some barrage promotions for the first couple arties - it does make them less survivable for that battle, but will go a long way to making the rest of the fight "easy".
Again to emphasize a point we will need to very carefully watch the domination limits as we work to getting more votes for the semi-backdoor.
Nuking... good idea in concept, but the -1 for each use for all civs will really hurt us. I'd only go the route of nuking if we're right at the edge and don't want to hope our babies are born faster then Tok's babies.
I started some infra build in case we decided to make a space run. We've got an acceptable army in the field for finishing off Monty (really depends on how the capital battle goes). I would suggest some barrage promotions for the first couple arties - it does make them less survivable for that battle, but will go a long way to making the rest of the fight "easy".
Again to emphasize a point we will need to very carefully watch the domination limits as we work to getting more votes for the semi-backdoor.
Nuking... good idea in concept, but the -1 for each use for all civs will really hurt us. I'd only go the route of nuking if we're right at the edge and don't want to hope our babies are born faster then Tok's babies.
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
Just wondering Bob did you notice how far we are to domination. I keep forgetting to look.
Another thought:
Since Bob started flight airports are now a viable method to transporting troops. I know a lot of people usually finish games before tanks/bombers etc, but I purposely continue a game just to fight modern warfare (love it). Since we have flight coming (great choice Bob) we will also have bombers.
What I envision is a method to speed up our army's advancing. We need to blitzkrieg to beat the Trash Team. What better for blitzkrieg then tanks. Now can we research industrialism or do we need assembly line to get there?
Reason thinking along those lines is my favourite combo is:
tanks/bombers period. Against this bunch it would speed up our advancement much faster. We need production more to accomplish this and putting up a lot more workshops on HC's land maybe good idea to get some production out of there.
If we face domination limit problem, then we need to find a way to appease Julius so that he will get to friendly with us. I just think that will be very hard with all those negatives. The declarations on Alex/Mao added a lot to that.
Another thought:
Since Bob started flight airports are now a viable method to transporting troops. I know a lot of people usually finish games before tanks/bombers etc, but I purposely continue a game just to fight modern warfare (love it). Since we have flight coming (great choice Bob) we will also have bombers.
What I envision is a method to speed up our army's advancing. We need to blitzkrieg to beat the Trash Team. What better for blitzkrieg then tanks. Now can we research industrialism or do we need assembly line to get there?
Reason thinking along those lines is my favourite combo is:
tanks/bombers period. Against this bunch it would speed up our advancement much faster. We need production more to accomplish this and putting up a lot more workshops on HC's land maybe good idea to get some production out of there.
If we face domination limit problem, then we need to find a way to appease Julius so that he will get to friendly with us. I just think that will be very hard with all those negatives. The declarations on Alex/Mao added a lot to that.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Great ideas.
So, I gather people have no objections to:
(1) PA with Vicky: it will net us MM's votes, but it will eliminate TGL.
(2) Continue on War Path: we should keep the war machine going, take out most if not all of Monty's and prepare for a big fight against KK by declaring on Loius.
We are 1/3 to domination so I don't envision any problems there. What we have to think about is what if JC finally decides he has enough of his "enough on his hands" phase and declare on M. Gandhi. Do we go to Gandhi's rescue?
--
So, I gather people have no objections to:
(1) PA with Vicky: it will net us MM's votes, but it will eliminate TGL.
(2) Continue on War Path: we should keep the war machine going, take out most if not all of Monty's and prepare for a big fight against KK by declaring on Loius.
We are 1/3 to domination so I don't envision any problems there. What we have to think about is what if JC finally decides he has enough of his "enough on his hands" phase and declare on M. Gandhi. Do we go to Gandhi's rescue?
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Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
PA with Vicky will get us MM votes which are 92. So it isn't as critical getting JC's votes. I say if he does declare on Gandhi we DO come to his rescue. Easier said than done though and if we are at war with KK/Louis we might not be able to keep up. Considering Gandhi is a major voting partner we will need him for diplomatic vote and if he looses any cities it will decrease our votes although if JC takes it then again it keep sec gen vote the same but decrease diplomatic vote. ARGH!!!!
He's has enough on his hands for a while now. Of course what usually happens in this game is you get started on another AI and he goes and starts something right about then when all your troops are far away.
The PA will be great for research but for military the AI simply doesn't do any landings except Toku. He's got troops on Monty's lands but Vicky nothing. She has her frigates there and that's about it. SO we can't expect much assistance from her.
I take it Greyfox you will be playing soon. Looking forward to your turn and hopefully get us closer to that diplomatic vote.
He's has enough on his hands for a while now. Of course what usually happens in this game is you get started on another AI and he goes and starts something right about then when all your troops are far away.
The PA will be great for research but for military the AI simply doesn't do any landings except Toku. He's got troops on Monty's lands but Vicky nothing. She has her frigates there and that's about it. SO we can't expect much assistance from her.
I take it Greyfox you will be playing soon. Looking forward to your turn and hopefully get us closer to that diplomatic vote.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
One wonders why Toku has troops in Monty's land? He is not involved in the war!
And damned!!!! Stupid Vicky! I hate this!
I played 2 turns, captured the capitol of Monty, and then out of the blue, this message appeared:
"You have signed peace with Monty."
Huh? WTH? I did no such thing! A few messaged later ... I realized what happened. Monty has capitulated to Vicky. Sh!t!
How stupid can AI be!
I knew I should have PA'ed with Vicky in the earliest opportunity ... Damned!
Out for lunch now, continue the remaining 8 turns later. If anyone is reading this, do we accept PA now? My intention was to wait a bit but looks what that ends up with.
Meanwhile I would marshall our forces for a quick invasion into France and Mongolia.
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And damned!!!! Stupid Vicky! I hate this!
I played 2 turns, captured the capitol of Monty, and then out of the blue, this message appeared:
"You have signed peace with Monty."
Huh? WTH? I did no such thing! A few messaged later ... I realized what happened. Monty has capitulated to Vicky. Sh!t!
How stupid can AI be!I knew I should have PA'ed with Vicky in the earliest opportunity ... Damned!
Out for lunch now, continue the remaining 8 turns later. If anyone is reading this, do we accept PA now? My intention was to wait a bit but looks what that ends up with.
Meanwhile I would marshall our forces for a quick invasion into France and Mongolia.--
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