SGOTM 04 - Geezers

[Sam_Yeager]

Nice to see the mainland clear of Khan Jenarie. Shame about those interlopers on our land though. I'm not convinced about the forge in New Sarai. I think carrying on with the market until we can whip it would have been better.

I think we should settle the gold in the east otherwise Hannibal or Brennus will settle it instead. Regarding migration I am reluctant to start giving up cities until we have acquired/settled some elsewhere. Giving up Yayoi would leave IronSheep and our iron too exposed. We need to get the iron by Ning-hsia mined first. Both of Ghandhi attacks have been on the east coast and I expect this pattern to continue. I notice that El Do is beginning to lose tiles to Bombay. I agree with Jenarie that we need to agree on a timescale for migration and how we should accomplish this.

For the coming turn I think the targets should be to wipe out Khan, settle the gold and build galleons and military.

Printing Press completes next turn so we need to decide on our tech path. Whilst Banking would be nice I think I would prefer us to head for the military techs such as Gunpowder, Chemistry, Steel and Military Tradition. This will take a while for research which is another reason I want to hang onto our revenue earnig cities.

Hannibal strikes me as an opponent who is likely to threaten Ghandhi. Unfortunately he is too strong for us at present. Htadus' view on Brennus may have some merit.

 

[markh]

I got it. Will have a look later.

 

[markh]

Looks good.
Upgrade the sword in Ning Hsia to a zerk to make it totally safe.

sink a Spanish caravel at Uppsala

IBT : the barb spear attacks Ning Hsia and dies
Printing Press -> Gunpowder

Nidaros : knight -> zerk

1) 1406AD : some trades :

Sell Printing Press to Hannibal for Gunpowder, world map and 480 gold
Sell Printing Press to Mehmed for Philosophy, Music world map and 190 gold
Sell Printing Press to Brennus for Banking, world map and 210 gold

we have a full view of the world now and we caught up in tech

stop here for some team discussion on the tech situation.

The GS would half the research time on scientific method which would take 6 to 7 turns then. Or should we go on just for chemistry ? I am waiting for comments before continuing. Save is attached.

Civics ? Should we change anything ?

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I would go for Chemistry. It looks like Hannibal and Mehmed are the two greatest threats to Ghandhi. Hannibal is too big for us to tackle at present.

I would be inclined to go for Madrid ( crosses fingers that she's actually built a shrine) and Barcelona initially and maybe Cordoba. Then we can attack Mehmed to slow down his science and expand our holdings. Btw let's keep our workers to cottage over all those verdammt (sp?) farms. Hopefully we can keep Brennus on our side. After that we can start looking at weakening/sabotaging Hannibal.

 

[Htadus]

Lets go for Chem to get the Grandiers and cannon ships.

By the way we should only takeout or maginalize anyone who actively threaten Gandhi or Us or for a new home base. Otherwise we are indirectly slowing down tech pace. That is a no no.

Good trades Mark.

I would wait untill ww become a problem prior to switching to Police State.

 

[Thrallia]

ditto on Police State. Good points on Chemistry too. I would have gone for Sci Method, since that's very important for space race and would be easily tradable at this point...but right now we need to take out Izzy, move, and be able to threaten people.

Chemistry gets my vote...however, we may not want to build troops as Grenadiers. I think we should look into producing Zerks, upgrading them with CR, then upgrading to Grenadiers. It would cost money, but it would enable us to keep the Amphibious promotions and get some CR bonuses onto our Grens(which can't be given CR promotions once they become Grens)

I'm sick, and need to go to bed now, or I'd take a look at the save...I'll take a look next time I get a chance, which may be a couple days...depending on how long it takes for this stupid sinus infection to go away.

Once I can look, I should be able to estimate a timetable on when we need to migrate away.

 

[Harbourboy]

Hope you are feeling better soon, Thrallia. Nice point about the amphibious grenadiers though. They could be our secret weapon.

 

[The-Hawk]

Hi all...

Took a look at the save, here are some things to chew on:

Ghandi seems to be slipping behind on techs, although maybe he is working liberalism and will catch up. We need to find a way to help him... which means a mutual trading partner. E.g we trade or gift Astronomy to someone who might trade it to Ghandi.

Ghandi suffers from poor land, I have to think he will start falling behind. My urgency for turning over our cities is growing.

I have almost convinced myself that Brennus should be our target, not Izzy. My main reasons:

• Izzy seems to be Ghandi's only semi-friend. I think we want her alive so we can give her techs with the hope she trades them to Ghandi.
• Mehmed seems to be abusing Brennus at the moment, looks like he has captured two cities already. I'm all for dogpiling the downtrodden.
• Izzy has less cities, and only two are really good. Given the layout of the map, I think we would have a hard time holding one of those (Barcelona) due to culture pressure from Mehmed. Once Barcelona changes hands, it will be culture swamped from the south, east, and maybe north. Brennus' good cities will not get the same pressure. If it does, a short war with Izzy can nibble back her border cities.
• Unless I missed it, Izzy does not have copper or iron. Nor will we, once we abandon our initial continent.
• I like Brennus' location better. Ocean on three sides, easier to defend.
• BTW, Izzy does not appear to have the religious shrine.

Looks like Tiflis is in the crosshairs. Here is a bizzare thought... maybe we should keep Tiflis. It can be our fallback in case things go poorly on the mainland. Once we get established we give Tiflis away. On the other hand, it is a pretty sucky city miles from anywhere, so probably not worth the maintenance drain.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

Ghandi seems to be slipping behind on techs, although maybe he is working liberalism and will catch up. We need to find a way to help him... which means a mutual trading partner. E.g we trade or gift Astronomy to someone who might trade it to Ghandi.

Mehmed got Liberalism in 1376 AD. Judging by the power graph Ghandhi's going hell for leather on military instead of science. Maybe an invasion force against us? More likely Ghandhi's just following the normal AI habit of building lots of military whether or not they're needed.

I have almost convinced myself that Brennus should be our target, not Izzy. My main reasons:

• Izzy seems to be Ghandi's only semi-friend. I think we want her alive so we can give her techs with the hope she trades them to Ghandi.
• Mehmed seems to be abusing Brennus at the moment, looks like he has captured two cities already. I'm all for dogpiling the downtrodden.
• Izzy has less cities, and only two are really good. Given the layout of the map, I think we would have a hard time holding one of those (Barcelona) due to culture pressure from Mehmed. Once Barcelona changes hands, it will be culture swamped from the south, east, and maybe north. Brennus' good cities will not get the same pressure. If it does, a short war with Izzy can nibble back her border cities.
• Unless I missed it, Izzy does not have copper or iron. Nor will we, once we abandon our initial continent.
• I like Brennus' location better. Ocean on three sides, easier to defend.
• BTW, Izzy does not appear to have the religious shrine.

Good point about the lack of metals in Izzy's land. Mehmed's got grenadiers which probably explains his success. I was initially thinking of starting with Izzy to get a foodhold on that continent. However I see your point about the advantages of going for Brennus.

Looks like Tiflis is in the crosshairs. Here is a bizzare thought... maybe we should keep Tiflis. It can be our fallback in case things go poorly on the mainland. Once we get established we give Tiflis away. On the other hand, it is a pretty sucky city miles from anywhere, so probably not worth the maintenance drain.

There's certainly something to be said for that idea.

 

[Harbourboy]

I would only advocate going after Brennus if he really is already under the hammer from somebody else. Otherwise, I can't see how we could succeed.

 

[markh]

Brennus and Mehmed are at war and are burning their units, so we have a decent chance to get our new home. Their big initial stacks should be gone by now. I hope this war lasts a little longer.

I hope to continue this evening.

 

[markh]

IBT : Gandhi sinks our trireme in Carthaginian waters

2) 1412AD : game crashes, reload from autosave

just moving troops and start bombarding Tiflis

IBT : Nidaros : zerk -> zerk
El Do : Treb -> courthouse

3) 1418AD : keep bombarding Tiflis

IBT : a worker is caught by a barb sword

4) 1424AD : bombarding Tiflis

IBT : Hannibal and Washington declare war on Brennus

5) 1430AD : knight kills the barb sword

this is sh... . Lose a treb and 2 zerks on Tiflis. All had 90+% odds.

sink an Indian caravel at Old Sarai

IBT : Nidaros : zerk -> zerk
Uppsala : galleon -> galleon
Yayoi : zerk -> zerk

6) 1436AD : sink an Indian and Spanish caravel at Uppsala

Finally Tiflis falls and Khan is OUT

IBT : Sanchu : granary -> courthouse

7) 1442AD : Mehmed has frigates

IBT : nothing

8) 1448AD : just moving units

IBT : Nidaros : zerk -> treb
Gandhi lands a sword and a settler West of El Do

9) 1454AD : knight kills the sword and we have another worker

IBT : Iron Sheep : zerk -> zerk
Haithabu : lib -> courthouse

10) 1460AD : sink an Indian caravel at Old Sarai

 

[Harbourboy]

Drama! So how do you feel about our current position?

What magic do you want me to weave during my next 10 turns?

 

[Thrallia]

and the Geezers executioner takes another victim lol

With the addition of Hannibal and Washington attacking Brennus, I think we should go ahead and go for him rather than Izzy first...and probably soon if Mehmed's success thus far shows anything.

 

[Harbourboy]

We might get lucky and be able to settle in the vaccuum left by the razing of a Celtic city!

I am ready to play now, but I will probably wait for another day to get a few more suggestions as to where to take things from here.

 

[markh]

We are in good shape, but what I do not like is that Gandhi falls back. The silly one builds caravels like crazy just to get them sunk in our waters. There are another four at Yayoi.

Chemistry comes in next turn, but Mehmed has it already, so our trades are more limited. For sure we do not want to give it to Brennus.

Brennus or Izzy should be our target. Brennus is being dogpiled and this will give us the opportunity to get a few cities rather cheap if we are quick. We do not have to fear big stacks counterattacking as Brennus fights everywhere. I have to check the save again to see where we should attack.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I would strongly suggest not declaring on Brennus until our troops are in a position to attack immediately. Otherwise we may find that he makes peace with the other civs before we attack. Teaching granny to suck eggs I know, but worth mentioning.

We also need to make sure we don't leave our cities without defence so it may be a while before we can attack as we probably need to build more troops. Worth switching to State Property shortly before we attack to reduce WW? I suspect we can't attack before the next person's turn anyway.

On a different subject, what should we research next? Steel? Head for Military Tradition? Education?

 

[markh]

Maybe we can still get something from Hannibal or Washington for chemistry. Steel would be nice, but will be quite expensive. Aside from that rifling I would like to see earlier than military tradition. Rifles and grens we can always build. Whether we have horses for cavs when we have moved is not yet sure.

BTW I have put the settler at the gold, but did not found the city as our economy is already quite bad.

 

[Harbourboy]

So do you want me to found the city, or only if I see someone else approaching?

Good point about the cavalry resource requirement.

So the focus of the next 10 turns is mainly:
- build troops
- squeeze a bit more our of economy
- obtain military techs
- don't get wiped out by anybody

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I know this is becoming a bit of a refrain but is it worth switching to State Property? Apart from the WW part it also gives a 25% boost to military production. Downside is that it will hit gold and research. However I think Hannibal is likely to be one of the major competitors against Ghandhi. He's too strong for us now but if we can successfully weaken Brennus and Mehmed and establish ourselves in our new lands then we're likely to be in a stronger position to do something about Hannibal.

Since we're going to have to give up our gold producing cities to help Ghandhi, spies may not be too realistic an option as we won't have the gold to pay for them to sabotage the opposition. That leaves the military option. The sooner we can get to Brennus the more chance we have of taking down Mehmed subsequently before he techs too far ahead of us.