SGOTM 04 - Geezers

[Htadus]

As a proponaent of the Pyramids, I agree with what has been said about its merits. I would prefer to start on it after we have 3 cities total.

Having look at the map made by Jenarie again, I think the City northwest of capital should be moved one tile west to make it a coastal city. It will get 3 land tile on the other side, and will get 2 food resources. We need a coastal city on that side.

I am inclining toward that city as our 3rd city because it will grow faster and give us another food resource and with the river and plains tiles we can have a decent production city. The city to the south may still be an option if we see some land based food resource there. If Kahn settle there we just take it as a planed.

Oh on a side note, I just recently learned on Warlord (not a good thing) that chariots can wreck havock on Axes. So we need to have a at least 1 spear with our Axes for protection. And we need to secure horses.

So for the next 20 turns:

Science: After AH, start on the Wheel followed by Myst.
Build: Switch to Settler and rush with 1 pop, warrior, WB for exploration.
Settle NEXT to gold Edited per Sam_Yeager observation

WB is the better explorer available right now.

Please feel free to comment. I will play in about 7 hours. 10 PM west coast USA.

 

[Htadus]

Some thing to keep in mind.

The proximity of India and us is not very good after we get to industrial age and beyond when we all have bombers. We are going to need to relocate in order to keep the science going fast with out going into major WW. Usually India would have to relocate but we can not break the back of india in this game . We should somehow plant a third Civ between (Physically) us and india. Even if it is a crippled Khan.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

So for the next 20 turns:

Science: After AH, start on the Wheel followed by Myst.
Build: Switch to Settler and rush with 1 pop, warrior, WB for exploration.
Settle on gold

Sounds good to me. I'm assuming 'settle on gold' means settle on the site previously discussed. I certainly like the idea of the NW city moving one tile west as well.

 

[Htadus]

Sounds good to me. I'm assuming 'settle on gold' means settle on the site previously discussed. I certainly like the idea of the NW city moving one tile west as well.

Yes . To settle "on" gold would be a stonning offense.

 

[Jenarie]

Having look at the map made by Jenarie again, I think the City northwest of capital should be moved one tile west to make it a coastal city. It will get 3 land tile on the other side, and will get 2 food resources. We need a coastal city on that side.

I am inclining toward that city as our 3rd city because it will grow faster and give us another food resource and with the river and plains tiles we can have a decent production city. The city to the south may still be an option if we see some land based food resource there. If Kahn settle there we just take it as a planed.

That is light blue city, correct? I think moving light blue and orange both 1 tile west would make the map a lot better. I doubt we really have any land tiles on the other side of the water though since we'll get into culture push with Gandhi although I guess it depends where he places his cities.

The whole plan may need to be redone once we know where horses are and get a little more exploring done but I think it's good to start with at least.

Btw Gold City is going to be settled on a desert hill not a plains hill. I think it was mentioned as plains earlier but on looking closer it is desert. I still think it is the best place to settle so didn't mention it earlier but in case it matters to someone thought I'd mention it.

 

[Jenarie]

Should Gold City be called El Dorado?

"A legendary city or historical region of the New World, often thought to be in South America, that was fabled for its great wealth of gold and precious jewels and eagerly sought by 16th- and 17th-century explorers, including Sir Walter Raleigh."

"El Dorado is used figuratively to mean any place of fabulous wealth, a utopian dream, or the land of desire."

Gold City is boring and I always have trouble remembering which city is which with the computer names.

 

[Thrallia]

well, ordinarily the second viking city is called Uppsala. Considering though that we called a city Lodestone City and another Coppertownski last time, I've got no problems with El Dorado lol

gonna try to get my dotmap worked out now...if it doesn't work, it'll be about 12 more hours before I get it done

 

[The-Hawk]

Ragnar is Aggressive & Financial. Not getting cottages up and running early strikes me as foolish and not making best use of our civ's traits. I agree that the Wheel and Mysticism need to come next but I feel Pottery should come soon after that.

I completely agree with this. I also think that a granary in the capital can help speed expansion... with all that food, whipping settlers is a good approach. The dot maps look great, but if we are slow building settlers, we might find our neighbors infringing on the plan.

Not sure why the hurry for Mysticism? Looks like most of the cities on the dot map have key resources in the center square. Exception is the corn in the gold city, but the pigs will do to get that one started. I'm guessing we have plenty of time to come back to mysticism before we need to expand cities.

RE: coastal cities... the UB really doesn't thrill me. I'd rather have extra land tiles and cottages with financial trait.

 

[Htadus]

I completely agree with this. I also think that a granary in the capital can help speed expansion... with all that food, whipping settlers is a good approach. The dot maps look great, but if we are slow building settlers, we might find our neighbors infringing on the plan.

Not sure why the hurry for Mysticism? Looks like most of the cities on the dot map have key resources in the center square. Exception is the corn in the gold city, but the pigs will do to get that one started. I'm guessing we have plenty of time to come back to mysticism before we need to expand cities.

RE: coastal cities... the UB really doesn't thrill me. I'd rather have extra land tiles and cottages with financial trait.

I too totally agree with the grainary in the capital and for that matter all other cities. Having the ability to whip a unit every 15 turns or a building will only work well with a grainary. And those lowely cottages....got to love em especially if they are next to a river.

We only need a couple good coastal cities and we can build the UB there. In civ3 I would not build any coastal cities if Vikings are around. In civ4, it appear any unit can attack from ships. If the cities are not coastal we can have rapid reaction units stratergically located to provide protection.

As for coastal cities, I have nothing against them if they provide seafood and preferably located on a notch like our capital is. That way we still get the health benefits of a coastal city and plenty of land tiles.

 

[Htadus]

"El Dorado Sala" here we come. I will play in 1.5 hrs.

 

[Thrallia]

I'm not against pottery early, but what with us having 3 food resources and tons of hills, I assumed we would be mainly working production tiles for at least the near term.

That said, I do love those cottages, if we plan to work them

 

[Htadus]

That is light blue city, correct? I think moving light blue and orange both 1 tile west would make the map a lot better. I doubt we really have any land tiles on the other side of the water though since we'll get into culture push with Gandhi although I guess it depends where he places his cities.

The whole plan may need to be redone once we know where horses are and get a little more exploring done but I think it's good to start with at least.

Btw Gold City is going to be settled on a desert hill not a plains hill. I think it was mentioned as plains earlier but on looking closer it is desert. I still think it is the best place to settle so didn't mention it earlier but in case it matters to someone thought I'd mention it.

Yes, the light blue city and you are correct we may have to make changes per where we find horses and iron.

Sorry to hear that is a desert hill since that may mean we will only get 1 hpt, but I thought I saw two hammers there. Oh well.

I am going to play now.

 

[Htadus]

Summary: We learn AH and the Wheel and 2 turns to get Myst. Settled El Dorado-sala (could not resist it). We have horses. Discovered Gandhi must have gotton a city from the hut.

Roster

Thrallia
Htadus - Just Played
harbourboy - to be skipped
Sam - Next
jenarie - On deck
markh


Suggestion to next player: When El Do grow in 2 turns, let Cap use the pigs for one (or two) turn to grow to 4. I recommend we build another settler next in the Cap (after the WB and the Axe in the que is completed) to claim the next city. We may want to move south to settle the Gem city. I would build a worker in Eldo after the warrior. With the pig and a rush that will come very fast.

Request: Please complete the mine I partially started on the labeled tile for the Cap next.

2800 BC (Turn 40) Switch build to settler. MM tiles to get AH in 6 turns.

2770 BC (Turn 41) Zzz

2740 BC (Turn 42) MM to get settler out in 17 and learn AH in 4 turns.

2710 BC (Turn 43) Zzz

2680 BC (Turn 44) Zzz
IBT: Judaism FIDL

2650 BC (Turn 45) Complete copper mine.

2620 BC (Turn 46) Learn AH and the horses are just out side of fat cross in the south. When the Cap expand next we will have access to it. Start the wheel and mm to learn in 9 turns. Worker to Pigs.
IBT: Gandhi adopt slavery.

2590 BC (Turn 47) Worker start pasture.

2560 BC (Turn 48) Zzz

2530 BC (Turn 49) Zzz

2500 BC (Turn 50) Mm city to rush settler next turn and moved warrior out to new city site.
IBT: Gibbon The Know It All say that Kahn is the most powerful and Gandi is third and we are the rock bottom. What does he know?

2470 BC (Turn 51) Rush settler and mm for gold.

2440 BC (Turn 52) Complete settler and pasture. mm cap to grow in 5 turns.

2410 BC (turn 53) Move worker to partially build a mine 1 west of cap.

2380 BC (Turn 54) Fortify War and move settler to ElDo.

2350 BC (Turn 55) Founded "El Dorado-sala" next to gold. Start warrior. We are running -2gpt at the moment. This also revealed that the goody hut that existed on the other side of the divide had given Gandhi a City on that coast. Gyathaar... ...That city is a 3 food source city. Aagh

2320 BC (Turn 56) Since the Cap can grow to 3 next turn without pigs, move pop to work the lake. Assign the pig to ElDO. I was going to select Pot next but choose Myst because we are going to need to pop rush a monument in Eldo as soon as possible. To compansate the cap is working the lake. Drop Myst by 3 turns from 9 to 6.

2290 BC (Turn 57) Worker move to Copper to road.

2260 BC (Turn 58) Worker start roading copper. Cap:Warrior>WB.

2230 BC (Turn 59) Zzz

2200 BC (Turn 60) Worker complete copper road.

The save:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/Geezers_SG004_BC2200_01.CivWarlordsSave

Session Turn Log from 2800 BC to 2200 BC:

Spoiler :

Turn 44, 2680 BC: Judaism has been founded in a distant land!

Turn 45, 2650 BC: You have discovered Animal Husbandry!

Turn 46, 2620 BC: Gandhi adopts Slavery!

Turn 51, 2470 BC: You have trained a Settler in Nidaros. Work has now begun on a Warrior.

Turn 55, 2350 BC: El Dorado-sala has been founded.
Turn 55, 2350 BC: You have discovered The Wheel!

Maps: I just added the blue circles for the second city. I was tempted to go to the north site but stayed with the plan.

 

[Jenarie]

Save looks good. Your MMing seemed to pay off.

It's too early to really worry about it but we are last in population and military. We might want to build a unit or two soon before Khan comes looking for us instead of us going after him.


I just looked at the submission graphs and I'm really curious what VQ could have done to get so much more culture then everyone else. It looks like it starts right at first turn.

 

[Sam_Yeager]

I've had a look at the save. My thoughts and queries for the next turnset are as follows:

• Grow El Dorado to 2
• Switch pig to Nidaros so it can grow to 4. MM Nidaros as necessary until whip unhappiness gone. Perhaps I should just let it grow and whip the WB?
• Finish mine by Nidaros.
• I'm inclined to whip the warrior in El Dorado when possible and then start the worker. We might then send the warrior to find Khan?
• Presumably I should send the WB exploring to the south?
• What tech should I research after Mysticism? We could go Agriculture for the corn or Sailing for our UB. Personally I think we should go for Pottery on the way to Writing.

 

[Htadus]

I just looked at the submission graphs and I'm really curious what VQ could have done to get so much more culture then everyone else. It looks like it starts right at first turn.

They most likely went for a religion. Since the chart only plot submittal points, I do not think they had a culture jump from the get go.

As for Kahn, we should build couple of units to discourge him.

 

[Htadus]

I've had a look at the save. My thoughts and queries for the next turnset are as follows:

• Switch pig to Nidaros so it can grow to 4. MM Nidaros as necessary until whip unhappiness gone. Perhaps I should just let it grow and whip the WB?
• I'm inclined to whip the warrior in El Dorado when possible and then start the worker. We might then send the warrior to find Khan?
• Presumably I should send the WB exploring to the south?
• What tech should I research after Mysticism? We could go Agriculture for the corn or Sailing for our UB. Personally I think we should go for Pottery on the way to Writing.

I think when Nidaros grow it can work the new mine and complete all the builds fast, but if we rush it, the city will grow back a little faster and we will have two useful units. Both options are good. Your call. Once we have a grainary there (Rushed) the choice is obvious.

I would not whip the warrior in El Dorado. We need the gold from there fast as possible and we need a worker from there fast too.

Yes let WB find Kahn and who ever else. So we do need another WB to go north. Good point.

Pottery is my vote followed by Sailing and Ag.

 

[Htadus]

Are we going to do any worker steals? If I feel confident that I will take and keep cities of a civ, I usually do not and let them build all the improvements. Settlers on the other hand is fair game. Since we are going to go monger early at least with Kahn, I would like to wait until we have Alphabet to get the most out of the campaign.

 

[Thrallia]

Looks good, my preferred tech order is Pottery>Writing>Alpha.
Agri and Sailing could be picked up from Khan and anyone else we meet. I'm sure Khan will meet Gandhi quickly allowing us to trade with him.

The next city should be placed along the coast next to the gems...It will have access to Horses shortly after, along with giving us a head start on cutting off Khan.

I don't think we want to do worker steals, as they slow down the AI...our goal is to speed of Gandhi, which requires we speed up most of the AIs as well.

 

[Thrallia]

as far as VQ is concerned...they have 60 culture more than anyone else at that point. Since the graph only plots submission points and draws direct lines to the rest, they could have received their 60 points anytime. If it was a religion...60/5=12 turns, that would mean they got lucky and founded Hinduism, 60/8=7.5. They aren't 64 points ahead, so it has to be a religion. Most likely Hinduism. This proceeds to show that they plan on going for the Oracle, and likely still dont' know that they have missed out on the copper