SGOTM 04 - Team VQ

[namliaM]

(a) lightbulb PP, or (b) build academy.

There is one big difference between hand researching PP and a new (hopefully) monopoly tech.
On PP if you self research it we get a bonus for each civ that knows it. roughly 3% per civ.
Officially the formula goes like: # of civs that know it / # of civs that started the map * 30.

IIRC we have 6 civs that know it, 2 that dont we and Khaaan
6/8 * 30 = 22.5 % bonus on researching PP ourselves, something we wont have on researching the monopoly tech. This bonus IIRC does not apply to Bulbing.

But if we do have (I didnt check the save) a good number of villages and towns (or will have soon) then maybe bulbing PP is the thing to do. An acadamy will net us about 16 (sustainable = 50% science rate) beakers a turn in Nadiros. Getting PP 10 turns earlier will not net us that, but maybe having the 10 turns earlier Sci Meth and/or Astronomy is worth that much and more...

 

[bobrath]

esp if getting either early results in better tech trades on the other branches.

 

[Cosmichail]

There is one big difference between hand researching PP and a new (hopefully) monopoly tech.
On PP if you self research it we get a bonus for each civ that knows it. roughly 3% per civ.
Officially the formula goes like: # of civs that know it / # of civs that started the map * 30.

IIRC we have 6 civs that know it, 2 that dont we and Khaaan
6/8 * 30 = 22.5 % bonus on researching PP ourselves, something we wont have on researching the monopoly tech. This bonus IIRC does not apply to Bulbing.

Fascinating is all I can say. You sure do your math.

PP sounds good but I'm sure Greyfox will the smartest move. He's never lost a game. hee hee (just was reading pholk AW game and well they don't have much luck).

Geez those Russian took SGOTM03 on both counts and we didn't even register. When, when guys are we going to win something. (and no spoons either ok)

 

[bobrath]

yeah, umm..... so maybe this isn't the time to admit my secret penchant for spoons?

 

[Cosmichail]

Why you like to play spoons. You must have rythym

 

[GreyFox]

@namliaM: AFAIK, the "well-known tech" research bonus affects the total number of beakers needed (i.e. reduce the cost of PP), not serve as a multiplier to beaker output. I may be wrong though. If it affects the multiplier, then you are correct. If it reduce the total cost, then there's no difference.

--​

Anyway, I counted 16 villages/towns, since academy will gain us 33 beakers (assuming 100% research rate), I decided to build the academy.

Got chemistry and headed for PP ....

The rest is simply peaceful builds. I did rearranged some trades (see autolog) and pushed science rate to 60%. The next player should push it up to 100% and rush us Astronomy for some trading. I have accumulated more than enough gold for that. We also had OB with Mehmed:

On military front, nothing, except our exploring caravel I was pulling back to protect the galley for the pending Operation-Kill-Khan met gandhi's caravel in the high sea and lost

we should whip up 2 or 3 caravels in the southwest cities. Once astronomy is n, trade for some good tech (eg Economy) and money, and upgrade the galley to galleon and caravel to frigate (do we need steel?) and start erasing Khan from the surface of earth.

In the longer term plan, I recommend we should upgrade all our berserkers to grenies and invade Hannibal. Once we get sufficient cities from Hannibal, we should start allowing Gnadhi to walk into our cities -- he is freaking weak, his score is bottom 3.

Spoiler autolog :

----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 290 (1400 AD)
GreyFox Trade(Brennus) - change gold for 9gpt to spice for 11gpt
GreyFox Trade(Mehmed): change gems for 8gpt to shep for 10gpt
GreyFox MM'ed NingHsia to grow
Tech learned: Chemistry
Birka grows: 10
Sarmatian finishes: Work Boat
Nara finishes: Theatre
Old Sarai grows: 7

Turn 291 (1406 AD)
Research begun: Printing Press
Sarmatian begins: Granary
Nara begins: Granary
Hinduism has spread: Nara
----------------------------New entries----------------------------
Turn 291 (1406 AD)
Nidaros finishes: Academy
Nidaros finishes: Bank
Karakorum finishes: Granary

Turn 292 (1412 AD)
Nidaros begins: Market
Karakorum begins: Forbidden Palace
Bjørgvin finishes: Library

Turn 293 (1418 AD)
Bjørgvin begins: Hindu Missionary
Haithabu grows: 9
Bjørgvin finishes: Hindu Missionary
Beshbalik grows: 6

Turn 294 (1424 AD)
Bjørgvin begins: Grocer
Tønsberg grows: 8
Nara's borders expand

Turn 295 (1430 AD)
Uppsala grows: 9
New Sarai grows: 7
Karakorum grows: 7
Caravel loses to: Indian Caravel (0.72/3)

Turn 296 (1436 AD)
Nidaros finishes: Market
Roskilde's borders expand
Bjørgvin grows: 11
Sarmatian grows: 4
Sarmatian finishes: Granary
Old Sarai grows: 8
Ning-hsia grows: 7

Turn 297 (1442 AD)
Nidaros begins: Hindu Monastery
Sarmatian begins: Caravel
Samarqand finishes: Library
Nara grows: 4
Beshbalik grows: 4
Beshbalik finishes: Forge

Turn 298 (1448 AD)
Samarqand begins: Forge
Beshbalik begins: Caravel
Hinduism has spread: Ning-hsia
Tech learned: Printing Press
Nidaros finishes: Hindu Monastery
Bjørgvin finishes: Grocer
Birka finishes: Hindu Temple
Ning-hsia finishes: Courthouse

Turn 299 (1454 AD)
Research begun: Astronomy
Nidaros begins: Grocer
Bjørgvin begins: Bank
Birka begins: Caravel
Ning-hsia begins: Caravel
Uppsala finishes: Bank
Haithabu finishes: University
Tønsberg grows: 9
New Sarai's borders expand
Old Sarai's borders expand

Turn 300 (1460 AD)
Uppsala begins: Trebuchet
Haithabu begins: Theatre

>>> The Save (1460AD) <<<

 

[namliaM]

(do we need steel?)

No we dont need steel, we do need: Iron, Chemistry and Astronomy.

AFAIK, the "well-known tech" research bonus

Check out the where are these extra beakers coming from discussion as well as the Technology Research Explained....
It clearly showes that it applies to beakers invested not on discount towards the total price.

Nice solid builders set Fox, but where did you get all that cash? Wow man.... lets put the peddal to the mettal and get Astro

Roster
namliaM -- +1 gmt >
Greyfox -- +8 gmt > The peacefull banker man.
Maquis -- -7 gmt > Up if you want it, or let scowler have it
Bobrath -- -5 gmt
Healium -- +1 gmt -- Still on Auto skip, speak up if you want back in the rotation!
Scowler -- gmt > UP / On Deck (come on scowler dont dissapoint us?)
Frankcor-- -5 gmt <Lurker>
Cosmichail -- -5gmt

 

[bobrath]

Quick Question - does the Amphibious promotion on Berserks stick with the unit when they get upgraded to grens?

 

[namliaM]

Quick answer: Yes it does.

 

[GreyFox]

... but where did you get all that cash?

Printing press helps, plus some cottages growth, plus whipping one or two couthouses, plus completion of banks, plus OB with Mehmed.

Yes, I suggest the next player switch to 100&#37; research to get Astro and (a) trade for some techs + cash, and (b) run 0% science for 2~3 turns to get cash for upgrades to galleons, frigates, and grenies.

==

 

[bobrath]

Quick learning point to self:

Build a bunch of Berserkers just prior to them obsoleting and thus get a "free" promotion when they are upgraded.

 

[namliaM]

Quick learning point to self:

Which is when you can build both Riffles and Grenadiers, I think also if you can build Infantry....

But the same goes with any unit that gets the "extra" in a promotion the way a berzerker does, i.e. the celtic one....

 

[Maquis]

I'll give Scowler some time to pick it up if he wants, I won't have time to play for the next 36 hours anyways...

 

[Scowler]

It'll probably be at least another 24hrs before I have time to play, but hopefully I should have a little more free time from that point on. Might as well just stick to the established roster now.

 

[namliaM]

OK scowler, basicaly your choice I guess and RL does bite sometimes....

That makes Maquis definatly UP and Bob you are next.

 

[Maquis]

Ok, I got the save, will play at some point in the next 24 hrs.

 

[Cosmichail]

sheeeeezzzzz guys I saw a hurd of turtles move faster than us the other day. VQ (very quick) mmmmm....Easter weekend coming too and probably just when my turns comes up so I am OOP for this at least until April 9th.

I could play April 6th, (good Friday) but then the weekend I have too much to do.

(I see though from the roster that Scowler is swapped and playing at some point, Maquis is playing and Bobrath follows so not likely it will get to my turn before April 9th anyways)

 

[namliaM]

Scowler was basicaly skipped last round, not swapped. He was allways in that spot of the roster Cosmic... I am hoping Scowler will get a chance to do his thing this time around, but currently we are still waiting on Maquis' 24 hours to be up

 

[Maquis]

Uggh... this game is giving me a headache...

So, I want to get a trade on with astronomy.... and I see a lot of "We Fear You are Becoming too Advanced" from the AI.

I did get one trade with Brennus, and got Economics.

With Econ, comes Free Market... so I revolt to it, and Representation. (Hopefully I won't get lynched!)

And then the icing on the cake:

Which starts causing a little WW around the place... But I have moved some troops to Tabriz, and have begun bombarding. Next up should take care of the GK nuisance....

Oh and Izzy gets a little *****y as well... so I tell her to piss off...

I really haven't done a lot more war buildup at this time... set research to Sci Meth, and just turned on research to go for it.


The save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm4/VQ_SG004_AD1529_01.CivWarlordsSave

Spoiler :

Turn 300, 1460 AD: Washington adopts Representation!

Turn 301, 1466 AD: Wang Anshi (Great Merchant) has been born in Istanbul (Mehmed II)!

Turn 303, 1478 AD: The borders of Beshbalik have expanded!

Turn 304, 1484 AD: You have discovered Economics!
Turn 304, 1484 AD: The revolution has begun!!!
Turn 304, 1484 AD: VQ adopts Representation!
Turn 304, 1484 AD: VQ adopts Free Market!
Turn 304, 1484 AD: Brennus adopts Free Market!

Turn 305, 1490 AD: Genghis Khan has declared war on you!

Turn 306, 1496 AD: The anarchy is over! Your government is re-established.
Turn 306, 1496 AD: Imhotep (Great Engineer) has been born in Washington (Washington)!

Turn 308, 1508 AD: VQ's Caravel (3.00) vs Genghis Khan's Galley (2.20)
Turn 308, 1508 AD: Combat Odds: 79.3%
Turn 308, 1508 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 308, 1508 AD: VQ's Caravel is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 308, 1508 AD: Genghis Khan's Galley is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 308, 1508 AD: Genghis Khan's Galley is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 308, 1508 AD: Genghis Khan's Galley is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 308, 1508 AD: Genghis Khan's Galley is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 308, 1508 AD: VQ's Caravel is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 308, 1508 AD: VQ's Caravel is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 308, 1508 AD: Genghis Khan's Galley is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 308, 1508 AD: VQ's Caravel has defeated Genghis Khan's Galley!
Turn 308, 1508 AD: The borders of Birka have expanded!

Turn 309, 1514 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Birka!
Turn 309, 1514 AD: You have discovered Astronomy!
Turn 309, 1514 AD: Genghis Khan's Caravel (3.00) vs VQ's Caravel (2.44)
Turn 309, 1514 AD: Combat Odds: 81.6%
Turn 309, 1514 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 309, 1514 AD: VQ's Caravel is hit for 20 (54/100HP)
Turn 309, 1514 AD: VQ's Caravel is hit for 20 (34/100HP)
Turn 309, 1514 AD: Genghis Khan's Caravel is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 309, 1514 AD: VQ's Caravel is hit for 20 (14/100HP)
Turn 309, 1514 AD: VQ's Caravel is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 309, 1514 AD: Genghis Khan's Caravel has defeated VQ's Caravel!
Turn 309, 1514 AD: Mehmed II adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 310, 1520 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Birka!
Turn 310, 1520 AD: Washington has 190 gold available for trade
Turn 310, 1520 AD: Haithabu will grow to size 10 on the next turn
Turn 310, 1520 AD: Ning-hsia has grown to size 4

Turn 311, 1523 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Old Sarai!
Turn 311, 1523 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Birka!
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Tabriz to 86%!
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Haithabu has grown to size 10
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Birka will grow to size 12 on the next turn
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Birka will become unhappy on the next turn
Turn 311, 1523 AD: Tipu Sultan (Great Prophet) has been born in Carthage (Hannibal)!

Turn 312, 1526 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Old Sarai!
Turn 312, 1526 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Birka!
Turn 312, 1526 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Tabriz to 79%!
Turn 312, 1526 AD: Your Frigate has reduced the defenses of Tabriz to 74%!
Turn 312, 1526 AD: Uppsala will grow to size 10 on the next turn
Turn 312, 1526 AD: Birka has grown to size 12
Turn 312, 1526 AD: Birka has become unhappy

Turn 313, 1529 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Old Sarai!
Turn 313, 1529 AD: The enemy has been spotted near Birka!
Turn 313, 1529 AD: VQ's Frigate (8.00) vs Gandhi's Caravel (3.60)
Turn 313, 1529 AD: Combat Odds: 99.6%
Turn 313, 1529 AD: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 313, 1529 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 313, 1529 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 313, 1529 AD: VQ's Frigate is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 313, 1529 AD: VQ's Frigate is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 313, 1529 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 313, 1529 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 313, 1529 AD: VQ's Frigate is hit for 13 (61/100HP)
Turn 313, 1529 AD: Gandhi's Caravel is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 313, 1529 AD: VQ's Frigate has defeated Gandhi's Caravel!
Turn 313, 1529 AD: Your Frigate has destroyed a Caravel!
Turn 313, 1529 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Tabriz to 67%!
Turn 313, 1529 AD: Your Catapult has reduced the defenses of Tabriz to 60%!

 

[namliaM]

That is a very short report for your turnset Maquis...

If it was that quiet, where does the headache come from? But quiet is not to bad at this time, up to Bob to get us Rockin'