bobrath
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,238
New rule: no more smoking whilst playing............
Agree with ya 100%. Even doing the writeup I was making fun of myself. Waste of a good 9 turns of research. /me boinks self on head.
SGOTM 04 - Team VQ
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Agree with ya 100%. Even doing the writeup I was making fun of myself. Waste of a good 9 turns of research. /me boinks self on head.
namliaM
Deity
Re: Science, yes we are low on science because we settled our second city far away. For that same reason I dont think we should try to take Cyan 2 now. It will hit our miantenance to hard, without much compensation. I suggest going for Blue 1... Getting the gold will help our economy both in Happy and $$$.
On the red city, I hadnt noticed (earlier) that the red city was on the gems. I think that is (very) wastefull. As much so as settling on the gold. A quick worldbuilder test to prove that ...
Settling on the gems (for financial civs) is losing 6gpt, while settling the Gold is losing 7gpt. And this is easy early commerce, just build the mine and its there. No need to wait for a cottage to develop nothing... Just get enough food, which is a minor problem on the gold site...
Blue 1 on Bob's dotmap (A) was where I was thinking... but lets see...
Stolen from post #79
Hmz, maybe I should have seperated the options... Well here goes...
With gold + gems we have an easy way to get the cities up to 6 pop. Add a religion and a temple and we are at 8. So I will estimate GPT as size 6 for the early comparison of the 4 sites....
A) Bob's second and my suggestion
One thing I like is it takes an otherwize useless tile (the dessert hill) and promotes it to something usefull. But back to the food business.
The 3 gold require 6 food to be worked. Using the Pigs (+4) and the Corn (+3 pre-cs) makes the city (with CC) +9fpt.
At size 5 working the Corn + Pigs + 3 gold mines we have +3fpt left for nice growing. Allowing for 8 grassland cottages and 3 plains cottages, post CS we can even add 1 grass hill cottage. Putting a mill on one grass hill allows for this city to work everyting but the coastal tile and the 2 Plains hill. having the coastal tile is definalty a down side to this site.
Making a total of 12 Cottages at size 17 (OK going to take a long while to get there...).
At size 6 this generates 24 (gold hills) + 1 cottage = 25gpt on size 6.
B) Grey's dotmap
The fish produces +4 food (+3 commerce kicker, once/if we can steel it from Gandhi) and CC makes +6.
The two remaining gold hills require 4 food, making the city +2 food left. 16 + 3 = 19 early commerce. Add 3 coastal tiles = total of 28 gpt on size 6. offcourse this is assuming we can work the fish from turn 1.
The 4 grasslands allow for 4 more cottages. And the +2 food allows for either growing or working 2 plains cottages. A total of 6 cottages.
As a (small) bonus you can work 5 coastal tiles at 3 commerce which for 15 turns is 2gpt better than a cottage. 30 turns equal to a Hamlett, worse ever after. Add 3 cottages to account for the coastal tiles?? Makes a total of 9 cottages at size 14.
C) Bob's original
The 3 gold require 6 food to be worked.
The corn (unirrigate pre-CS) gives 3, cc 2. Add a farm on that river (need Iron working). And you have +6 food without growing... So you need to get to size 6 work 2 farms + Corn to grow slowly (+1 fpt) which will become +2fpt post-CS. Earning in 24 + 2 (river farms) = 26 gpt at size 6.
Then if we want to cottage up as well the 2 Grass hills and the grass tiles. We stagnate at size 13 working 2 farms + Corn + 3 Gold + 5 Grassland cottages + 2 Grass hill cottages = 7 cottages total.
D) My imagination
To start with this site has the (big) downside of a 3 tile overlap with Nadiros, of which 2 will be mined to make Nadiros the production beast we want it to be.
Again the 3 gold hills require 6 food. The Fish (+4) and borrowing/stealing the Pig (+4) from Nadiros makes it +10 (adding CC). Once adding the Gold hills makes it +4fpt. This city can work a meagre 2 grassland cottages and 4 plains cottages.
As a small kicker it can work 2 coastal tiles for 3 commerce. I will count these as 1.5 cottage?? Making a total of 7.5 cottages.
At size 6 working the fish + Pigs + 3 Gold + Coast = 3+0+24+3 = 30gpt, assuming we can work the fish from ~turn 1.
Stealing Gandhi's fish
Stealing the fish (if we can do it) will make Gandhi ineffitably weaker... Is that something we want?
Now about stealing it... IF we can do it... The borders have popped allready on that city of Gandhi, which means it is producing culture. What are the ways of producing culture this early in the game
1) Wonder? No way
2) Library? No way
3) Obelisk
Possible/probable which could mean the city is now producing 1cpt, but will (soon?) go to 2 because of the (IIRC) 1000 year bonus.
Once we settle we will get the 1cpt as well, which will never double cause its the freebee and we will lose alltogether once Calander kicks in. A losing battle, i.e. IMHO we will never (perminantly) own the fish. Unless we can be much faster with other culture buildings. Remember tho Gandhi is spiritual => Cheap temples and he is allready getting the AI building bonus too, which (again IMHO) will make it hard to be faster producing culture than gandhi.
4) Religion
I think ONLY if this city has become the Holy city of Judaism, in which case it is currently producing 6cpt and it is going to be very hard (to say the least) to handle that one ...
5) Temple/Monastary
Needs a religion first, if it has either of those allready then we are really in trouble cause then the culture is allready up to 9cpt or something.
3 things we have going for us in this culture battle,
1) the fish is on our coast and 2 tiles from gandhi's coast.
Which means that -eventually- we will get the culture bonus from having expanded the borders father than that tile, while gandhi will not (big +), but we will have to produce a 150 culture first to get the second border pop. At an average of 4cpt (Obelisk + religion + Lib) = 150/4 = ~40 turns. But first we will have say 20 turns of 1cpt. Then 25 of 2 cpt, making 70. The remaining 80/4 = 20 again. So at the earliest (I think) we will take 65 turns to start gaining on Gandhi, Who knows how long after it will fall to us. Guestimate 100 turns after settling the city?
2) We will eventually (if we grab that city north as well) have 2 cities putting culture into that region, maybe even on the fish.
This will also require that norhern city to be >150 culture and even then its influance will be small, it will also take ~65 turns before starting to affect the fish tile. Maybe shaving a turn or 2 of the "stealing of the fish tile"
3) An AI is bad at culture wars and wont directly proiritize Culture, tho in Gandhi's case beeing spritual and having a headstart allready ...
My oppinion on stealing the fish, at best it is going to be a >100 turn battle to get it.
Because of this I think city B is not an option, as it will not be able to work them hills untill 100 turns from now.
D will have the same culture battle as B and is food poor for the future development of the site, I wouldnt settle here.
City C takes away quite some tiles from Greys Orange city. Overall I think C is not as good as A.
Concidering the fact that Nadiros really doesnt need the Pigs to sustain itself and work all its tiles (adding 1 mill replaing a mine, or 1 farm somewhere will do) in the way way future. Or even now while not working the 0 food or 1 food plains we dont need the pigs for Nadiros, we are not working the (still unimproved) corn (why did we allready research Agriculture and not improved that Corn???
) Once it is farmed we can swap the Pigs for Corn and never ever need to work the pigs again... Why not put it to good use in our (major?) science/gold city A?
Eventho city A will be outproduced a big 5gpt early on per turn by city D... After we can get > size 6 and go over the Hamlett point city A will start gaining and soon overtake City D I think.
All that put together I like A over D simply cause of the fish "perril" vs the certainty of the Corn.
The worker really doesnt need to continue to road to Uppsala because the river does the rest of the work for us. In connecting the cities for the Commerce. I think it should return north to farm the corn and/or road towards the gold city.
Just quoting myself (again) get the worker from the que in Uppsall build it for 4 more turns to get to a total of 49, now it should be whippable by 1 pop.
To start improving Uppsala....
Then use Nadiros to get a 3rd settler and 3rd worker for Cyan 2 if still available.
On the red city, I hadnt noticed (earlier) that the red city was on the gems. I think that is (very) wastefull. As much so as settling on the gold. A quick worldbuilder test to prove that ...
Settling on the gems (for financial civs) is losing 6gpt, while settling the Gold is losing 7gpt. And this is easy early commerce, just build the mine and its there. No need to wait for a cottage to develop nothing... Just get enough food, which is a minor problem on the gold site...
Blue 1 on Bob's dotmap (A) was where I was thinking... but lets see...
Stolen from post #79
There are I think 4 ways you can place that Gold city....my post #79 said:
Hmz, maybe I should have seperated the options... Well here goes...
With gold + gems we have an easy way to get the cities up to 6 pop. Add a religion and a temple and we are at 8. So I will estimate GPT as size 6 for the early comparison of the 4 sites....
A) Bob's second and my suggestion
One thing I like is it takes an otherwize useless tile (the dessert hill) and promotes it to something usefull. But back to the food business.
The 3 gold require 6 food to be worked. Using the Pigs (+4) and the Corn (+3 pre-cs) makes the city (with CC) +9fpt.
At size 5 working the Corn + Pigs + 3 gold mines we have +3fpt left for nice growing. Allowing for 8 grassland cottages and 3 plains cottages, post CS we can even add 1 grass hill cottage. Putting a mill on one grass hill allows for this city to work everyting but the coastal tile and the 2 Plains hill. having the coastal tile is definalty a down side to this site.
Making a total of 12 Cottages at size 17 (OK going to take a long while to get there...).
At size 6 this generates 24 (gold hills) + 1 cottage = 25gpt on size 6.
B) Grey's dotmap
The fish produces +4 food (+3 commerce kicker, once/if we can steel it from Gandhi) and CC makes +6.
The two remaining gold hills require 4 food, making the city +2 food left. 16 + 3 = 19 early commerce. Add 3 coastal tiles = total of 28 gpt on size 6. offcourse this is assuming we can work the fish from turn 1.
The 4 grasslands allow for 4 more cottages. And the +2 food allows for either growing or working 2 plains cottages. A total of 6 cottages.
As a (small) bonus you can work 5 coastal tiles at 3 commerce which for 15 turns is 2gpt better than a cottage. 30 turns equal to a Hamlett, worse ever after. Add 3 cottages to account for the coastal tiles?? Makes a total of 9 cottages at size 14.
C) Bob's original
The 3 gold require 6 food to be worked.
The corn (unirrigate pre-CS) gives 3, cc 2. Add a farm on that river (need Iron working). And you have +6 food without growing... So you need to get to size 6 work 2 farms + Corn to grow slowly (+1 fpt) which will become +2fpt post-CS. Earning in 24 + 2 (river farms) = 26 gpt at size 6.
Then if we want to cottage up as well the 2 Grass hills and the grass tiles. We stagnate at size 13 working 2 farms + Corn + 3 Gold + 5 Grassland cottages + 2 Grass hill cottages = 7 cottages total.
D) My imagination
To start with this site has the (big) downside of a 3 tile overlap with Nadiros, of which 2 will be mined to make Nadiros the production beast we want it to be.
Again the 3 gold hills require 6 food. The Fish (+4) and borrowing/stealing the Pig (+4) from Nadiros makes it +10 (adding CC). Once adding the Gold hills makes it +4fpt. This city can work a meagre 2 grassland cottages and 4 plains cottages.
As a small kicker it can work 2 coastal tiles for 3 commerce. I will count these as 1.5 cottage?? Making a total of 7.5 cottages.
At size 6 working the fish + Pigs + 3 Gold + Coast = 3+0+24+3 = 30gpt, assuming we can work the fish from ~turn 1.
Stealing Gandhi's fish
Stealing the fish (if we can do it) will make Gandhi ineffitably weaker... Is that something we want?
Now about stealing it... IF we can do it... The borders have popped allready on that city of Gandhi, which means it is producing culture. What are the ways of producing culture this early in the game
1) Wonder? No way
2) Library? No way
3) Obelisk
Possible/probable which could mean the city is now producing 1cpt, but will (soon?) go to 2 because of the (IIRC) 1000 year bonus.
Once we settle we will get the 1cpt as well, which will never double cause its the freebee and we will lose alltogether once Calander kicks in. A losing battle, i.e. IMHO we will never (perminantly) own the fish. Unless we can be much faster with other culture buildings. Remember tho Gandhi is spiritual => Cheap temples and he is allready getting the AI building bonus too, which (again IMHO) will make it hard to be faster producing culture than gandhi.
4) Religion
I think ONLY if this city has become the Holy city of Judaism, in which case it is currently producing 6cpt and it is going to be very hard (to say the least) to handle that one ...
5) Temple/Monastary
Needs a religion first, if it has either of those allready then we are really in trouble cause then the culture is allready up to 9cpt or something.
3 things we have going for us in this culture battle,
1) the fish is on our coast and 2 tiles from gandhi's coast.
Which means that -eventually- we will get the culture bonus from having expanded the borders father than that tile, while gandhi will not (big +), but we will have to produce a 150 culture first to get the second border pop. At an average of 4cpt (Obelisk + religion + Lib) = 150/4 = ~40 turns. But first we will have say 20 turns of 1cpt. Then 25 of 2 cpt, making 70. The remaining 80/4 = 20 again. So at the earliest (I think) we will take 65 turns to start gaining on Gandhi, Who knows how long after it will fall to us. Guestimate 100 turns after settling the city?
2) We will eventually (if we grab that city north as well) have 2 cities putting culture into that region, maybe even on the fish.
This will also require that norhern city to be >150 culture and even then its influance will be small, it will also take ~65 turns before starting to affect the fish tile. Maybe shaving a turn or 2 of the "stealing of the fish tile"
3) An AI is bad at culture wars and wont directly proiritize Culture, tho in Gandhi's case beeing spritual and having a headstart allready ...
My oppinion on stealing the fish, at best it is going to be a >100 turn battle to get it.
Because of this I think city B is not an option, as it will not be able to work them hills untill 100 turns from now.
D will have the same culture battle as B and is food poor for the future development of the site, I wouldnt settle here.
City C takes away quite some tiles from Greys Orange city. Overall I think C is not as good as A.
Concidering the fact that Nadiros really doesnt need the Pigs to sustain itself and work all its tiles (adding 1 mill replaing a mine, or 1 farm somewhere will do) in the way way future. Or even now while not working the 0 food or 1 food plains we dont need the pigs for Nadiros, we are not working the (still unimproved) corn (why did we allready research Agriculture and not improved that Corn???
) Once it is farmed we can swap the Pigs for Corn and never ever need to work the pigs again... Why not put it to good use in our (major?) science/gold city A?Eventho city A will be outproduced a big 5gpt early on per turn by city D... After we can get > size 6 and go over the Hamlett point city A will start gaining and soon overtake City D I think.
All that put together I like A over D simply cause of the fish "perril" vs the certainty of the Corn.
The worker really doesnt need to continue to road to Uppsala because the river does the rest of the work for us. In connecting the cities for the Commerce. I think it should return north to farm the corn and/or road towards the gold city.
Just quoting myself (again) get the worker from the que in Uppsall build it for 4 more turns to get to a total of 49, now it should be whippable by 1 pop.
To start improving Uppsala....
Then use Nadiros to get a 3rd settler and 3rd worker for Cyan 2 if still available.
GreyFox
Make it so ...
I'd already said I made a mistake in putting the red city on the gem, it should be one tile south. No need to prove that to me using the world builder. All of us know whats the difference between settling on a resource and improving on a resource. As for settling on the gold, as cosmic and I said, it will be a long long time (biology, I think) before we have enough food to work on all the gold. So it makes no difference where you settle the gold city.
Actually I like A, though being one tile away from coast is a minus point since we cant build navy to deter Gandhii from landing there. The corn and pigs in A will allow the city to work on the gold mines and grow. Once the orange city is up, it can return back the corn for the GP-Farm to operate.
--
Actually I like A, though being one tile away from coast is a minus point since we cant build navy to deter Gandhii from landing there. The corn and pigs in A will allow the city to work on the gold mines and grow. Once the orange city is up, it can return back the corn for the GP-Farm to operate.
--
bobrath
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,238
I'm still thinking about it being ok if Ghandi decides to land on our shores - as long as we have somewhere else to run. Remember that we win by losing to a Ghandi space win. Yes, we do need to be strong enough to protect Ghandi from other civs (and to be around long enough to see Ghandi launch!).
I'm ok with not settling Cyan2 right away to avoid the maint hit, but I would like to have a settler hanging out nearby to settle quickly if a Khan party shows up. Always better to have the city then to use units taking it away (and possibly razing).
I didn't improve the corn because roading to our second city was more important (IMO).
I'm ok with not settling Cyan2 right away to avoid the maint hit, but I would like to have a settler hanging out nearby to settle quickly if a Khan party shows up. Always better to have the city then to use units taking it away (and possibly razing).
I didn't improve the corn because roading to our second city was more important (IMO).
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
That gave me a good laugh. Actually if anything it showed me how crappy our base commerce is. 9 turns for archery seems like a lot and any of my Ragnar games it's more like 4. (that's Ragnar with lots of cottages)
I think too settling the cyan is expensive and the gold site should be priortized to get our base commerce up. I agree with Greyfox on site A but don't like the overlapping although namliaM you make good arguments in that Nidaros won't need the pigs. I also like the C site but then we would need IW to put up farms at the river. So to get our commerce going I think site A is the best option now to change that.
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
The more I look at C the more it screams commerce to me. We wouldn't have to farm all those river tiles. Just one to irrigate the corn (post CS of course) if I see it right or more considering how many river tiles there are. (the tile west or south) The others would make great cottage sites and in combination with the gold we'd have one heck of a commerce city. Whereas site A we wouldn't have near the commerce not being on a river.
How fast could we get IW I wonder as getting those river tiles up and running would help a lot and the immediate benefit of gold/corn would be there irregardless of IW or not. We can't get too big yet so settling there shouldn't be a problem considering we can work enough tiles as it is. Long term that would be a major commerce city and we could cottage the grass hills since Nidaros would be our main production city. If anybody agrees (mmmm) then we should build something in any tiles near jungle. Stop those annoying jungles from growing.
At this point though iron isn't that important IW isn't really high on our list of priorties. Just a thought and we definitely need a strong commerce site with a low base commerce right now. EDIT: Or is it.......Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnn
How fast could we get IW I wonder as getting those river tiles up and running would help a lot and the immediate benefit of gold/corn would be there irregardless of IW or not. We can't get too big yet so settling there shouldn't be a problem considering we can work enough tiles as it is. Long term that would be a major commerce city and we could cottage the grass hills since Nidaros would be our main production city. If anybody agrees (mmmm) then we should build something in any tiles near jungle. Stop those annoying jungles from growing.
At this point though iron isn't that important IW isn't really high on our list of priorties. Just a thought and we definitely need a strong commerce site with a low base commerce right now. EDIT: Or is it.......Khaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnn
Alright, could we have a consensus please, since I was originally about to play when namliaM made his post... 
I tend to agree with Bob's suggestion of plonking a settler at Cyan 2 and only founding when necessary (cue GreyFox: "settlers are for settling, not for sleeping"
), remembering of course that it will also be 15 turns between establishing the city and the borders expanding to seal off our territory from Khaaaan.
As for our City of Gold, I also like the look of C (aka Itchy and Scratchy). Nah, scratch that, I vote for A also.
So...
1) Where exactly am I sending this settler? Seems most likely to be site A.
2) Research plan for this round is Masonry -> Priesthood -> Writing
3) We still have a MC slingshot in mind?
I tend to agree with Bob's suggestion of plonking a settler at Cyan 2 and only founding when necessary (cue GreyFox: "settlers are for settling, not for sleeping"
), remembering of course that it will also be 15 turns between establishing the city and the borders expanding to seal off our territory from Khaaaan.So...
1) Where exactly am I sending this settler? Seems most likely to be site A.
2) Research plan for this round is Masonry -> Priesthood -> Writing
3) We still have a MC slingshot in mind?
namliaM
Deity
My "beef" on not farming the corn isnt as much with not improving it, but rather with having researched Agriculture WAY before it was needed. I agree the road (which is finished for traderoute connection purposes) was/is more important. If we do want to keep roading start heading towards Cyan 2 to speed up the setttler getting there. We can get another settler in just a few turns (if we whip for 3! or 2! "dont whip the capitol") and get it going out!
Nadiros can sustain working the same hammer tiles but less food most of the time at size 5 vs 6 with the one unhappy! So not much hammers are lost IMHO but a lot is gained (a settler out 5 turns earlier!)
site C vs Site A,
7 (4 riverside +1 commerce) cottages vs 12 (non riverside) cottages
We would get 2 gpt extra for a river cottage for 15 turns.
The one extra commerce on the river makes for 8 maybe 9 vs 12 cottages?? I know which one wins (eventually) C is earlier, but A (longer term) is better. Plus it opens up the orange city to be a better city...
As for sending the settler some place, I say the gold site... AND I say A, but that was clear wasnt it?? Every turn we not settle the gold is a loss of 25gpt ! I think it is worth it delaying Cyan 2 and risking Khaaan taking it. Gives us a reason to go at him
Taking out Khaaaaan in the intermediate term is only an option (IMHO) if there are other AI for us (and gandhi) to trade with. If there are no (other) AI on our patch of land it may be a bad thing to eliminate Khaaaan before the advent of caravels.
Trading is a good part of tech speed!
I dont know about Oracle... arent we getting to be a bit late for that one?
Nadiros can sustain working the same hammer tiles but less food most of the time at size 5 vs 6 with the one unhappy! So not much hammers are lost IMHO but a lot is gained (a settler out 5 turns earlier!)
site C vs Site A,
7 (4 riverside +1 commerce) cottages vs 12 (non riverside) cottages
We would get 2 gpt extra for a river cottage for 15 turns.
The one extra commerce on the river makes for 8 maybe 9 vs 12 cottages?? I know which one wins (eventually) C is earlier, but A (longer term) is better. Plus it opens up the orange city to be a better city...
As for sending the settler some place, I say the gold site... AND I say A, but that was clear wasnt it?? Every turn we not settle the gold is a loss of 25gpt ! I think it is worth it delaying Cyan 2 and risking Khaaan taking it. Gives us a reason to go at him
Taking out Khaaaaan in the intermediate term is only an option (IMHO) if there are other AI for us (and gandhi) to trade with. If there are no (other) AI on our patch of land it may be a bad thing to eliminate Khaaaan before the advent of caravels.
Trading is a good part of tech speed!
I dont know about Oracle... arent we getting to be a bit late for that one?
GreyFox
Make it so ...
You a politician? This is obviously flawed (or at least fact-twisted) argument, designed to emotionally aroused voters to vote for you!
Having said that, I would go for A as well.
And we really should rid ourselves of the barb city if we are not planning to keep it. Do it while there is still only warriors and not archers defending it.
I am not a great fan of Oracle myself, so I would instead go for Writing -> Literature path to make use of the marble for TGL instead.
--
Maquis
King
I would also like option A. We can work the pigs if needed, and have the corn as a main source of food.
GreyFox is right, raze the barb city sooner, rather than later...
GreyFox is right, raze the barb city sooner, rather than later...
namliaM
Deity
The WB test wastnt as much for you Grey, as it was for me. I didnt know what the effect would be of settling on those resources... Nada appearently...
I am no politician, but I have been getting simular comments in RL. Maybe I should switch profesion ....
Well we cannot expand to much before CoL or we go bankrupt... Tho with the gems (Need IW bad!) and gold...
Inside of 6 turns we build a settler and inside of 4 a worker, I think we have production enough left over to atleast put some hammers into it (Oracle) if only for the cash refund. Once it is build (by us or otherwize) switch to another wonder (Mids or lighthouse) for the same.
If we want to get TGL asap we should/could do the hammer saving trick if anyone is up for that...
I am no politician, but I have been getting simular comments in RL. Maybe I should switch profesion ....
Well we cannot expand to much before CoL or we go bankrupt... Tho with the gems (Need IW bad!) and gold...
Inside of 6 turns we build a settler and inside of 4 a worker, I think we have production enough left over to atleast put some hammers into it (Oracle) if only for the cash refund. Once it is build (by us or otherwize) switch to another wonder (Mids or lighthouse) for the same.
If we want to get TGL asap we should/could do the hammer saving trick if anyone is up for that...
GreyFox
Make it so ...
Did you edited that, namliaM? I thought I read hammer-starving trick when I first read your post this afternoon.
The Barracks at Uppsala was switched to a worker as planned, and another worker was started in the capital the following turn after the settler was completed.
On turn 2 the Annoying Barb City fell to our glorious forces and was duly razed:
This gave us a very welcome 139g which I used to run deficit research for a while.
However, what also fell at the same time was the Oracle, so that ends that debate pretty quickly No idea who picked that up or what they took for their free tech.
As one city falls, so does another rise from the dust of the desert. Site A was colonised and renamed Haithabu (I think Site A was more catchy...). I immediately gave the city access to Nidaros's pigs to greatly speed up growth.
Masonry came in and research was set to Priesthood. Our trireme continued exploring but reached a dead-end thanks to Khaaaaan's cultural boundary.
After the settler was completed in the capital I set the city to build a couple of chariots for fog-busting. The first of these ran across a barb axeman but of course defeated him easily. The north should now be safe from these pests.
After the chariots I started a Temple in the capital to allow it to grow further; meanwhile the workers were scurrying to get the first of the goldmines online. As it was finished Priesthood completed and we were able to use the extra commerce to knock a turn off Writing. Annoyingly a tree grew along the route back to the capital which delayed connecting the gold for a turn, but this was a minor issue. Also, the pigs were finally connected and the corn at Nidaros was farmed, replacing some of the food lost by giving the pigs to Haithabu.
Two other events of note occurred around this time. Firstly, Gandhi adopted Hereditary Rule, and secondly, Confucianism was founded who-knows-where.
Gandhi was mostly quiet and unobtrusive during the turnset. There was one brief moment when one of his triremes ended up next to ours, but he didn't dare attack with something like 30% chance of success. I didn't dare attack either...
Khaaaaan, on the other hand, phoned us up as soon as Writing had been completed, asking for Open Borders. I considered agreeing in order to allow our trireme through for exploration, but in the end I turned him down, mainly because I didn't want him scouting our cities and discovering how poorly defended they are ... because now he has an extra reason to dislike us! Yes ... Genghis converted to Judaism! Good for Gandhi; not so good for us when we have such pitiful defenses (I did build some archers for the cities, though).
After Writing I ignored GreyFox's suggestion of heading towards Literature and chose Iron Working instead (sorry).
My reasoning is that TGL is quite some way off, and in the meantime relations with Khaaaaan are deteriorating. I suspect that by the time we got Alphabet he would be unwilling to trade us anything anyway. Any iron that is revealed would be useful for deciding on future city sites. Plus of course it would be nice to break through some of that jungle...
This how our empire stands at the moment. We have 3 cities, with another settler due in 5. Khan has 7 cities.
As you can see, Khaaaan appears to have concentrated on expanding laterally and back-filling; Cyan 2 is still available.
And here is what little else we know about the rest of the world:
On turn 2 the Annoying Barb City fell to our glorious forces and was duly razed:
This gave us a very welcome 139g which I used to run deficit research for a while.
However, what also fell at the same time was the Oracle, so that ends that debate pretty quickly
No idea who picked that up or what they took for their free tech.As one city falls, so does another rise from the dust of the desert. Site A was colonised and renamed Haithabu (I think Site A was more catchy...). I immediately gave the city access to Nidaros's pigs to greatly speed up growth.
Masonry came in and research was set to Priesthood. Our trireme continued exploring but reached a dead-end thanks to Khaaaaan's cultural boundary.
After the settler was completed in the capital I set the city to build a couple of chariots for fog-busting. The first of these ran across a barb axeman but of course defeated him easily. The north should now be safe from these pests.
After the chariots I started a Temple in the capital to allow it to grow further; meanwhile the workers were scurrying to get the first of the goldmines online. As it was finished Priesthood completed and we were able to use the extra commerce to knock a turn off Writing. Annoyingly a tree grew along the route back to the capital which delayed connecting the gold for a turn, but this was a minor issue. Also, the pigs were finally connected and the corn at Nidaros was farmed, replacing some of the food lost by giving the pigs to Haithabu.
Two other events of note occurred around this time. Firstly, Gandhi adopted Hereditary Rule, and secondly, Confucianism was founded who-knows-where.
Gandhi was mostly quiet and unobtrusive during the turnset. There was one brief moment when one of his triremes ended up next to ours, but he didn't dare attack with something like 30% chance of success. I didn't dare attack either...
Khaaaaan, on the other hand, phoned us up as soon as Writing had been completed, asking for Open Borders. I considered agreeing in order to allow our trireme through for exploration, but in the end I turned him down, mainly because I didn't want him scouting our cities and discovering how poorly defended they are ... because now he has an extra reason to dislike us! Yes ... Genghis converted to Judaism! Good for Gandhi; not so good for us when we have such pitiful defenses (I did build some archers for the cities, though).
After Writing I ignored GreyFox's suggestion of heading towards Literature and chose Iron Working instead (sorry).
My reasoning is that TGL is quite some way off, and in the meantime relations with Khaaaaan are deteriorating. I suspect that by the time we got Alphabet he would be unwilling to trade us anything anyway. Any iron that is revealed would be useful for deciding on future city sites. Plus of course it would be nice to break through some of that jungle...
This how our empire stands at the moment. We have 3 cities, with another settler due in 5. Khan has 7 cities.
As you can see, Khaaaan appears to have concentrated on expanding laterally and back-filling; Cyan 2 is still available.
And here is what little else we know about the rest of the world:
SAVE
bobrath
Emperor
- Joined
- Nov 21, 2005
- Messages
- 1,238
Looks good. What did you do with our tireme that was held up by Khaan's border? I wonder if we could have negotiated OB to get our ship past his borders and then as soon as possible drop the agreement to close the borders back down. Might have picked up a token +1 dip point.
Do we have a state religion? I don't remember! If not, then at least we aren't picking up negatives for that.
We do need to at least have a settler camped at Cyan2 since if Khaaan hasn't run out of room.... well jungle can't hold him back forever!
Do we have a state religion? I don't remember! If not, then at least we aren't picking up negatives for that.
We do need to at least have a settler camped at Cyan2 since if Khaaan hasn't run out of room.... well jungle can't hold him back forever!
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
From namliaM's autolog on the first turn so we do have that tension now.
Will take a look at the save and wait for some team input but can play later on today. More like tonight.
Cosmichail
Dark Lord of The Sith
That's usually when you can't pick up a religion is when you need it. If Gandhi builds shrine all the better chance of us picking his religion up. Khan is already at 7 cities 
. If we did that we been losing money.
So what's the gameplan captain namliaM. Since we are on IW now hopefully we have it somewhere, if not we definitely should consider settling whereever it is. Since we haven't found any other AI's do we leave Khan alone. I somehow think waiting for Judaism to spread is a crapshoot for now and being of a different religion Khan might attack. Early war seems to be common in warlords so I think we need to prepare and get us an army to deal with him. Definitely will need spears in that.
. If we did that we been losing money. So what's the gameplan captain namliaM. Since we are on IW now hopefully we have it somewhere, if not we definitely should consider settling whereever it is. Since we haven't found any other AI's do we leave Khan alone. I somehow think waiting for Judaism to spread is a crapshoot for now and being of a different religion Khan might attack. Early war seems to be common in warlords so I think we need to prepare and get us an army to deal with him. Definitely will need spears in that.
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