Re: Science, yes we are low on science because we settled our second city far away. For that same reason I dont think we should try to take Cyan 2 now. It will hit our miantenance to hard, without much compensation. I suggest going for Blue 1... Getting the gold will help our economy both in Happy and $$$.
On the red city, I hadnt noticed (earlier) that the red city was on the gems. I think that is (very) wastefull. As much so as settling on the gold. A quick worldbuilder test to prove that ...

Settling on the gems (for financial civs) is losing 6gpt, while settling the Gold is losing 7gpt. And this is easy early commerce, just build the mine and its there. No need to wait for a cottage to develop nothing... Just get enough food, which is a minor problem on the gold site...
Blue 1 on Bob's dotmap (A) was where I was thinking... but lets see...
Stolen from
post #79
my post #79 said:
About the gold city, we dont have to take the pigs if we dont want to...
The 3 gold hills + plains? Hill + 3 plains + 1 grass hill = -12 food.
The Corn gives +4 and CC +2 = 6 food, leaving us with 6 food to find somewhere, either farmed grassland/plains or the pigs + farms.
Nadiros needs 11 food to work all the tiles. CC (2) + Corn (4) + Lake (1) + Clams (3) = 10. So we just need the one farm to work all the tiles (excluding the pigs). And we can swap the pigs between the capitol (when it needs growing) and the Gold city when the capitol is maxed.
I think if you want to max out the usage of the Gold and NOT use the fish in that water between us and Gandhi the only and fastest way by far is to work the Pigs (+4) + Corn (Unirrigated! +3) for +9 food so we can work the 3 gold mines (-6 food). Without the pigs we can hardly work the gold mines pre-CS (chain farming) without moving the city and working the (netted => pillagable) fish.
There are I think 4 ways you can place that Gold city....

Hmz, maybe I should have seperated the options... Well here goes...
With gold + gems we have an easy way to get the cities up to 6 pop. Add a religion and a temple and we are at 8. So I will estimate GPT as size 6 for the early comparison of the 4 sites....
A) Bob's second and my suggestion
One thing I like is it takes an otherwize useless tile (the dessert hill) and promotes it to something usefull. But back to the food business.
The 3 gold require 6 food to be worked. Using the Pigs (+4) and the Corn (+3 pre-cs) makes the city (with CC) +9fpt.
At size 5 working the Corn + Pigs + 3 gold mines we have +3fpt left for nice growing. Allowing for 8 grassland cottages and 3 plains cottages, post CS we can even add 1 grass hill cottage. Putting a mill on one grass hill allows for this city to work everyting but the coastal tile and the 2 Plains hill. having the coastal tile is definalty a down side to this site.
Making a total of 12 Cottages at size 17 (OK going to take a long while to get there...).
At size 6 this generates 24 (gold hills) + 1 cottage = 25gpt on size 6.
B) Grey's dotmap
The fish produces +4 food (+3 commerce kicker, once/if we can steel it from Gandhi) and CC makes +6.
The two remaining gold hills require 4 food, making the city +2 food left. 16 + 3 = 19 early commerce. Add 3 coastal tiles = total of 28 gpt on size 6. offcourse this is assuming we can work the fish from turn 1.
The 4 grasslands allow for 4 more cottages. And the +2 food allows for either growing or working 2 plains cottages. A total of 6 cottages.
As a (small) bonus you can work 5 coastal tiles at 3 commerce which for 15 turns is 2gpt better than a cottage. 30 turns equal to a Hamlett, worse ever after. Add 3 cottages to account for the coastal tiles?? Makes a total of 9 cottages at size 14.
C) Bob's original
The 3 gold require 6 food to be worked.
The corn (unirrigate pre-CS) gives 3, cc 2. Add a farm on that river (need Iron working). And you have +6 food without growing... So you need to get to size 6 work 2 farms + Corn to grow slowly (+1 fpt) which will become +2fpt post-CS. Earning in 24 + 2 (river farms) = 26 gpt at size 6.
Then if we want to cottage up as well the 2 Grass hills and the grass tiles. We stagnate at size 13 working 2 farms + Corn + 3 Gold + 5 Grassland cottages + 2 Grass hill cottages = 7 cottages total.
D) My imagination
To start with this site has the (big) downside of a 3 tile overlap with Nadiros, of which 2 will be mined to make Nadiros the production beast we want it to be.
Again the 3 gold hills require 6 food. The Fish (+4) and borrowing/stealing the Pig (+4) from Nadiros makes it +10 (adding CC). Once adding the Gold hills makes it +4fpt. This city can work a meagre 2 grassland cottages and 4 plains cottages.
As a small kicker it can work 2 coastal tiles for 3 commerce. I will count these as 1.5 cottage?? Making a total of 7.5 cottages.
At size 6 working the fish + Pigs + 3 Gold + Coast = 3+0+24+3 = 30gpt, assuming we can work the fish from ~turn 1.
Stealing Gandhi's fish
Stealing the fish (if we can do it) will make Gandhi ineffitably weaker... Is that something we want?
Now about stealing it... IF we can do it... The borders have popped allready on that city of Gandhi, which means it is producing culture. What are the ways of producing culture this early in the game
1) Wonder? No way
2) Library? No way
3) Obelisk
Possible/probable which could mean the city is now producing 1cpt, but will (soon?) go to 2 because of the (IIRC) 1000 year bonus.
Once we settle we will get the 1cpt as well, which will never double cause its the freebee and we will lose alltogether once Calander kicks in. A losing battle, i.e. IMHO we will never (perminantly) own the fish. Unless we can be much faster with other culture buildings. Remember tho Gandhi is spiritual => Cheap temples and he is allready getting the AI building bonus too, which (again IMHO) will make it hard to be faster producing culture than gandhi.
4) Religion
I think ONLY if this city has become the Holy city of Judaism, in which case it is currently producing 6cpt and it is going to be very hard (to say the least) to handle that one ...
5) Temple/Monastary
Needs a religion first, if it has either of those allready then we are really in trouble cause then the culture is allready up to 9cpt or something.
3 things we have going for us in this culture battle,
1) the fish is on our coast and 2 tiles from gandhi's coast.
Which means that -eventually- we will get the culture bonus from having expanded the borders father than that tile, while gandhi will not (big +), but we will have to produce a 150 culture first to get the second border pop. At an average of 4cpt (Obelisk + religion + Lib) = 150/4 = ~40 turns. But first we will have say 20 turns of 1cpt. Then 25 of 2 cpt, making 70. The remaining 80/4 = 20 again. So at the earliest (I think) we will take 65 turns to start gaining on Gandhi, Who knows how long after it will fall to us. Guestimate 100 turns after settling the city?
2) We will eventually (if we grab that city north as well) have 2 cities putting culture into that region, maybe even on the fish.
This will also require that norhern city to be >150 culture and even then its influance will be small, it will also take ~65 turns before starting to affect the fish tile. Maybe shaving a turn or 2 of the "stealing of the fish tile"
3) An AI is bad at culture wars and wont directly proiritize Culture, tho in Gandhi's case beeing spritual and having a headstart allready ...
My oppinion on stealing the fish, at best it is going to be a >100 turn battle to get it.
Because of this I think city B is not an option, as it will not be able to work them hills untill 100 turns from now.
D will have the same culture battle as B and is food poor for the future development of the site, I wouldnt settle here.
City C takes away quite some tiles from Greys Orange city. Overall I think C is not as good as A.
Concidering the fact that Nadiros really doesnt need the Pigs to sustain itself and work all its tiles (adding 1 mill replaing a mine, or 1 farm somewhere will do) in the way way future. Or even now while not working the 0 food or 1 food plains we dont need the pigs for Nadiros, we are not working the (still unimproved) corn (why did we allready research Agriculture and not improved that Corn???

) Once it is farmed we can swap the Pigs for Corn and never ever need to work the pigs again... Why not put it to good use in our (major?) science/gold city A?
Eventho city A will be outproduced a big 5gpt early on per turn by city D... After we can get > size 6 and go over the Hamlett point city A will start gaining and soon overtake City D I think.
All that put together I like A over D simply cause of the fish "perril" vs the certainty of the Corn.
The worker really doesnt need to continue to road to Uppsala because the river does the rest of the work for us. In connecting the cities for the Commerce. I think it should return north to farm the corn and/or road towards the gold city.
Just quoting myself (again) get the worker from the que in Uppsall build it for 4 more turns to get to a total of 49, now it should be whippable by 1 pop.
To start improving Uppsala....
Then use Nadiros to get a 3rd settler and 3rd worker for Cyan 2 if still available.