SGOTM 04 - Team VQ

[Cosmichail]

Thing I have noticed too when AI expands fast like GK they don't build a lot of units and might be an easy target until he finishes his expansion. Tough to take Karakorum without cats though but we could go after the smaller cities at some point. If he's harbouring just archers at this point an army of say 5 swords 2 axes and 2 spears might be enough to take one or two of his smaller cities as long as they are defended by archers and not on a hill.

I don't see me DOW on Khan during my turn but do see the need to be prepared in case he declares. Taking Khan out might hurt us in the long run too as there are no other AI's around. So the remaining four are on another landmass teching away of course. Another high priorty of course finding them soon.

 

[bobrath]

Optics beeline!!!!

 

[Scowler]

Exactly!

 

[namliaM]

I dont know about concentrating our 3 workers around Haithabu (our gold city), I think I would have kept the worker which produced in Uppsala down there to increase the yield of that town Farm the corn, quarry Marble + start cottages down there. As it is... why did we research Masonry allready while we are not getting any use out of it...
*** Sorry for dragin' up bygones... but... ***
Between my bad with the Scout, Archery, Agriculture and Masonry that is Strike 4. One thing for sure we can learn allready from this game is ... do you need this now... and if we have it use it... or??
*** again sorry but it felt right at this time ***
I dont mean to pick on anyone it is just a general observation.

I think we should get OBs with Khaaan more than before. This should help with the spreading of his religion to us... as well as allow our ship to pass and find the borders of our lands. Maybe even meet another civ, tho not likely on our landmass.
Unless offcourse Khaaan is at a chocke point blocking other civs.
Alltho I think meeting other civs is highly unlikely, it can be very usefull to us to know the size of our (Gandhi's future?) lands.

Having a few spears in the hand is better than 10 macemen in the air
I think caution is somthing good and with IW on the way we want (I think) be settling the closer and grassy jungle sooner rather than later.

Moving up the red and orange rather than Cyan 2. Also the purple site is totaly smothered in Gandhi culture allready... Leave that one for gandhi I think. The green should still be ours tho maybe 1 NW of its current spot.
The orange could possibly be moved 1 south so to have no overlap with Haithabu and pick up 2 tiles down south.
Take note that the red should be either 1 south or 1 NW from its current position so not to settle on the Gems...

Gandhi allready has a city on our peace of turf, so he is suttling with a galley. I would expect more settlers on our lands pretty soon. Making Red even more important IMHO as it secures the only spice around (OK with calandar) that we can really use for the happy.

I can actually see if the AI would prefer to settle ON the spice due to grabbing that fish, I might even consider it if we were not losing the northern gems. It may be smart to move our axe on the spice to stop that from happening...

Having us 2 objectives doesnt work... Getting TGL and beelining Optics are 2 diferent things. In light of our bigger objective, give Gandhi room to grow and eventually take us over while we relocate some place...
I think we (likely) need astronomy (or atleast it will make it easier), which is why we need to know for sure we are stuck on this rock with these 2 nutballs.


How do we get Astro while still working with (preferably) our UU??? Bulb it I think.... ( I really must work more specialists and bulb more early on).
I am trying to load that tree, but Imageshack doesnt seem to be wanting to help me. But IIRC GS's will bulb Astro early if we steer clear of CS and Philo.
GS's are created in great abundance by TGL. So why not go for that?? IW => TGL (literature) => Astronomy.
Meanwhile we can have some fun taking out Khaaaan without our UU, when we are close(r) to optics.

So as I see it
1) Settle Red and Orange ASAP
2) Get TGL
3) Beeline Astro
4) Take out Khaaan someplace...

As for saving (not starving hammers...) that is where you try and get hammers on reserve, by whipping some building at a favorable spot like 46 - 50 hammers left in the build (or 91-100 on a bonus build like a Lighthouse) or even on just 1 hammer left (tho only 1 pop whip).
This generates some 40 overflow which on a building will keep for 50 turns.
Now if you have say a granary and a library both not yet build but both with 40 overflow waiting in the que just say 4 turns before we get TGL.
We start some unit which will finish in 2 and generate a small? overflow (5 hammers or so?).
Then que the granary, this has allready got 40 hammers overflow, add the 5 add the turn production (15? = 60)
Then que the Library, also 40 overflow allready there add the 60 and 15 production for this turn = 115 overflow into TGL.
Add again 15 hammers for a turn of production = 130 + Marble bonus = 260 hammers into TGL on the first turn.
Offcourse this means whipping and timing thing reall good...
We would not want to have the hammers on the builds starting to decay so we want to be no more (but not much less) than 50 turns from getting Literature if/when we start doing this.
So if we try to do this, keep an eye out for our research rate and the amount of beakers required... If not... well... chalk it up to nutty namliaM having a stupid trick up his sleave...

Edit: It is not my trick I read it someplace on the forum a while back.

Roster
namliaM -- +1 gmt (Actually 0 atm due to DST) > On deck *put some ideas out there*
Greyfox -- +8 gmt
Maquis -- -7 gmt
Bobrath -- -5 gmt
Healium -- +1 gmt -- Auto skip due to a Herniated disk *Good luck man* and be well
Scowler -- gmt
Frankcor-- -5 gmt <Lurker>
Cosmichail -- -5gmt > Fly fly away (Up that is)

 

[bobrath]

I'm not sure I understand why Orange should be founded after Red. (I do agree with settling Red asap if Ghandi truly has planted a city on our side of the river/lake.

So you overflow a building with the whip, but then... queue something else up at that point meaning you have a completed building that's not yet built. Do that twice, so you have the overflowed whips sitting in queue - then let the "easy" unit finish and you triple overflow into the next item. Interesting, you'll have some stacked up whip unhappy and I wonder how the trade-off of not having the "built" buildings working for you evens out... have to try it in an SP or two!

 

[namliaM]

Obviously the trade off is on thin ice, in particular delaying a library can be painfull in some cases or delaying a Temple keeping the pop one lower than it should be, it is a case by case study...
In this case (take our capitol) it is not yet making that much money and the trade of ensuring TGL vs losing 3 beakers/turn for 40 turns (or somesort like that) is very well worth it I think.

There is one pittfall you have to avoid. You cannot overflow more hammers than the building or unit is worth. i.e. with a Library you cannot overflow more than 135 hammers. So if it looks like you will acumilate more you have to do it in stages...
First do one turn of TGL someplace to fix the overflow build up to that point on TGL then que the lib and transfer that overflow as well....

Re a city on our side, yes most definatly, just look at those cultural borders... there just HAS to be a city there, no otherway possible...
Re: Orange city, it closes off our land much like Cyan 2 does but closer to home together with Cyan 1 and red.

 

[bobrath]

Re: Orange site.

If its just about closing off our borders, then cyan2 is still a superior option - it doesn't require jungle to be chopped down to be viable right away and founding Cyan2 will seal that border (since Cyan1 has popped its borders out).

Red will seal us "enough" with Ghandi and will suck up our jungle chopping (and escorted) workers that will be needed to get orange running as well.

Yes, Cyan2 has greater maintenance, but it can work viable gpt generating tiles right away. At least we have Henge which ensures pops in 15 turns!


Re: ghandi settling on our side. Isn't it also possible that he founded the city N - NE of your dot and we're just seeing "mature" borders?

 

[Cosmichail]

Interesting stuff about the trick. I too have to try that in SP game and get a better understanding of it. namliaM could you please provide an example of it on a turn by turn basis so I can understand better how the overflow is accumulated. (maybe you did already but it won't sink in)

Might play later tonight or tomorrow early depending on RL. I like getting the red site settled for those gems. It will get our commerce up and eventually great city for baldy. That does look like he's settled on our side.

 

[GreyFox]

Same comments as namliam on the worker. They should really spread out. At least one cottage should be built in Nidaros. In Uppsala, the marble should be quarried (and maybe connected if we want the TGL), the corn should be farmed, and farms /cottages should be established there. There is zero improvement in Upppsala ... I thought the purpose of completing the worker there is to improve that city!

Since Khan has horses, Cyan #2 is not that crucial. Re: bob's comment on working tiles right away, the settler is still 5 turns from finishing, by the time it reach Red or Orange, IW will be in, so that is not a valid argument.

We have researched writing, why is there no library built in Nidaros? (Note: library is needed to enable TGL, so it must be used as the first completing built for hammer-storing -- I think storing was the original term coined by the person who first wrote abt the rick, not saving -- if people are inclined to use it. Personally, I would complete the library ASAP .. we need it badly in the capitol, and Literature still requires Alphabet).

Pray for iron, else we cannot possibly take Karakorum without cat support.

I'll advise people forget abt the game's objective right now ... It really do us no good if Gandhi got strong prior to us ... we won't survive to see him go to the stars. We need block off his further encroachment into our area, and if necessary capture his city on our land.

--

 

[namliaM]

Re: Orange site.

I know Cyan 2 is superior to Orange, but I dont think it is realistic to get all that without interferance from either Khaaan or Gandhi. I simply thing both Orange and red are in their own right better cities than Cyan 2 is/will be. Cyan 2 needs more food, where the other 2 can just be cottaged right up.

Re: ghandi settling on our side. Isn't it also possible that he founded the city N - NE of your dot and we're just seeing "mature" borders?

Borders dont mature over 2 tiles if going over water. Therefor the border would not be able to be there if there wasnt a city there...
It appears Bob is right... there is also 3rd level culture due north of Haithabu.
This means 2 things imho. 1) That city must be Judist holy 2) Gandhi no have no city on our lands but will have soon (I think)

the settler is still 5 turns from finishing

No it isnt, it is one turn from finishing and I do think we want it out ASAP to get that red or brown spot (more later)

Re the need for a lib in Nadiros. It is producing 12 beakers at 80&#37; science, which is a full 3 beakers. We dont need it that hard I dont think. Any city (i.e. Settler) will soon be worth the same 3 beakers as the library (OK at the cost of upkeep but also with unit support and higher growing possibility than the Lib)
We can use the lib for the Hammer storing/saving trick.

Also about fogbusting, we are paying 2gpt supply upkeep on those. With our total income at 30 at the moment (lets assume 40 soon) that is 5% and/or just about the lib in Nadiros. I would consider retreating our busters to within borders. Or atleast 2 that are costing us money!
The chariot up north and the chariot West of Haitabu are having a look over lands that gandhi is also looking out on.
The nothern chariot can be moved to the hill east if it with the forrest on it. This way the chariot there that is just outside our borders can move in and save 1gpt right there.
The chariot due NW of Uppsala goes 1 north and the warrior north of there goes into our borders again saving the 1 gpt.
This is what I mean for he north:

Also a new prososal for dotting... We currently have the green and purple "planned", how about moving the green to hollow green?
Also we can add the blue one up north if/when we desire. Alternatively we can take these 2 coastal average cities (I think we dont want that purple one due to Gandhi intrusive culture) and turn them into one monster on the white dot or even move it inland one tile to make it (another) inland city but with monsterous capacity! (18 cottages) on the white question mark.

For the south:

As for the dots. Red is now where it should be and Orange moved one south, this also puts it on the river.
A further suggestion is to replace Red by Brown and moving the Orange one west to the Orange Circle.

About workers... I think we need more anyway... lets keep the 3 workers that are near Haibatu there and simply produce a worker in Uppsala and que that Archer! it will cost us GPT in upkeep and with one turn left will be easy to get in an emergiancy (should Khaaan DoW us). The hammers will keep for 10 turns, while a worker is 15 turns. BUT it is/should be whippable after 46/6 = 8 turns, well within the 10 turn limit.
1) It gets the worker out ASAP 2) It saves some coin on Upkeep.

OBs with Khaaan will not only allow our Trireme to get thru, but also rack up a positive "our open borders bring us closer" point making him just a little less likely to DoW I think.

 

[Scowler]

OBs with Khaaan will not only allow our Trireme to get thru, but also rack up a positive "our open borders bring us closer" point making him just a little less likely to DoW I think.

A good point, but I suspect that by the time we get a positive for OB we will also have picked up another minus due to religion, so while things will be no worse they will also be no better.

However, I agree that getting the Trireme out west is important - as is raising the likelihood of having Judaism spread to us. On the other hand, Khan is still quite capable of declaring if he feels it is in his interest, regardless of OB, being Pleased, or sharing a religion, As I said before, my original wariness of OB was governed by the possibility of him scouting our land and discovering our general weakness and potential targets for attack; Uppsala is still very exposed. In a recent private game something similar happened: stuck on a landmass with him and Catherine, we were all the same religion with open borders and supposedly one happy family, but then he went and declared because one of my cities was a little too exposed next to his borders. So after that I am still erring on the side of caution...

On that note, regarding Uppsala, I didn't work the corn there because it was right next to Khan's borders and I didn't have any spare military to act as escort. I was too afraid that he might come out of the fog with a chariot and use the worker as an opportunity for DOW. If that had happened we might well have lost Uppsala. In retrospect, I could and should have farmed the grass N of the city, but I made the decision that it would be better to focus on getting resources online/connected ASAP in the north as the cities there had better potential (and of course cost less for maintenance when growing). As it happens, I did put a couple of turns into the Marble, but stopped when I saw that it would be of little use during my turnset (Oracle fallen).

 

[namliaM]

getting the Trireme out west is important

I think getting the trireme ANYWHERE will help

discovering our general weakness and potential targets for attack

I think just looking at the power graph will tell him the same... I think you put a little to much merrit into the AI at the point where they scout first prior to attack.
Uppsala is exposed, that atleast is a big fact. Having the surrounding ground improved tho (even if at a risk) will help in paying for its maintenance.

I hope Scowler you didnt feel the need to explain/defend yourself, my (or any comments for that matter I am sure) were not meant to be finger pointing or blaiming.

No comments what so ever tho Scowler on the things I wrote?

Edit: IIRC it takes 2 scientists to bulb Astronomy, 300 gp points are needed to spawn 2nd GP after the priest and 450 for the 3rd. 750 / (6 + 4) = 75 turns after completing TGL in Nadiros we will have 2 more GPs with a 25&#37; of beeing a priest, shorter and lower odds of a priest if we add 1 or 2 scientists ourselves.
In order for it to be eligable for bulbing we need:
- Not have CS
- Researched Mathmatics
- Researched Optics (both prereq and lower earlier bulbing)
- Researched Philo (or not be able to, not having Meditation)

 

[GreyFox]

I disagree with any whip on the capitol. Anycase, even if settler were to start off now, IW will be done around the same time the city is settled, so it makes no difference to my argument.

I still think orange dot should stay where it is and get the corn back. Karakorum may be a better site for the GP-Farm, but that is moot as long a sit is flying Khan's banner.

==

 

[bobrath]

Wasn't sure about timing of settler and IW. I'll put down my "up with Cyan2" banner for a while.

As far as keeping Khaaaan from scouting us by not giving OB... He can walk through almost our entire land without ever crossing a border. We're really not closed off to scouting - at least until we found 1-2 more cities. I'd suggest getting the OB simply out of necessity for our navy not having to sail all the way back through Ghandi's seas.

I don't like moving red to brown. I do notice that your red is one S of where we had originally discussed and I'm fine with that.

I would agree that white is a superior city to blue/green, but lets remember that we are Ragnar so moving off the coast may not be a good choice (so white question mark is the lesser choice imo).

Good work on adjusting our fog busters to save some cash. We do need to remember that AI cultural borders bust fog as well.

 

[namliaM]

I think Grey also intended it there. On its original spot it was ON gems, which is never a great place. I think getting Red/brown is much more important than Cyan 2 at this time, in particular with the timing of IW we can mine the Gems and get an extra happy in the process
While Cyan 2 doesnt really add anything but block Khaaaan and get us high maintenance (not that red would be much lower.

I am FOR whipping the capitol to get the settler out faster. Also the capitol will soon grow back and it is working unimproved tiles (IIRC).

Re moving Orange down or not.... Haithabu (our gold city) needs the Corn to work the gold, I dont think there will be a real place where we can steal the corn longterm. Therefor the overlap (in the long term) is going to hurt us/Gandhi (if he ever comes to capture some of our cities).

Orange in its current spot has 3 sugars (= +6 food once improved) so it can still sustain the 2 scientist we can/want to put up there. If we want to run more specialists we have to adopt Caste system, the Orange city will only produce stuff by the whipping a Market into place is expensive.
Further if we succeed in getting TGL into Nadiros we will be getting (atleast) 10 GPP in that city, unless we run Caste it will never catch up and I dont think there is much use in having 2 GPP "farms" or running Caste just for 1 city.

Brown and Hollow Orange just seem to fit better without overlap, where red and orange have 2 tiles and Yellow and Orange have one too. Moving Orange up IMHO does nothing but create more overlap since we cannot borrow/steal the corn...

What is the deal with having to have coastal cities?? I dont mind taking the white dot in favour of the question mark. But why? So we can build +1 movement ships?

 

[Cosmichail]

I am glad I haven't played yet and have to admit confused as to where to settle. After reading this a few times and looking at the game I believe that the red spot is in our best interest for the happy resources there and commerce. It has spices/gems/sugar and once we get calender should prove to be a great commerce/food city.

Normally I DO not like to whip but since this spot is prime I believe that in this case we should.

20 turns I take it and focus on getting more workers/OB with Khan for more scouting and after iron working what do we want to research?

Now I am thinking maybe we should wait for IW to see where the iron is and then decide where to settle. ARGH.......indecision is worse that doing something so I'll either pause the game if iron is located far away and discuss but if already in cultural borders will carry on with the same plan.

I think Ragnar's need for coastal cities is in the trade routes more than anything. Inner cities tend to have less lucrative trade route than coastal cities. Of course at this point not important unless we get can get a better relationship with Khan although even OB will give us better trade routes.

EG: recent SP game my inland capitol had trade routes of like +3 my coastal city had trade routes of +10. (3 at the time). Much better commerce available to coastal cities thru trade routes.

 

[Cosmichail]

Viking lander launches Indians into space

That&#8217;s what I like about a first turn there really isn&#8217;t that much to do unlike the last turn where one turn takes an hour. I wanted to settle whether or not Gandhi has indeed settled on our landmass. No he hasn&#8217;t and those are mature borders as pointed out by our SG expert Bob the Great One. (wooohoooo) It&#8217;s Bombay the holy city.

Here&#8217;s proof (all we had to do was move that chariot)

I notice too that Haithabu will grow so get those workers onto mining all of the gold. The more commerce the better. After looking at the whip in capitol I think 3 pop is too much and decide to let it build on its own. Mainly because the IW won&#8217;t be finished for a bit too.

We make this deal with Genghis Khan so we can scout in the south with Trireme.

From what I&#8217;ve seen so far of his troops he running around with archers and chariots. I typically find AI in the beginning is weak as they spend all their time spawning much like we are doing. (LOL) (Plus we got another buck in trade out of it)

We get somewhat south and find this little island. Maybe our future hideout. Hee hee

Anyone for getting the TGL. (lighthouse) well kiss it goodbye it was built. I don&#8217; think we should waste time with wonders in this game. The Great lib may be a good approach to improving our science but how likely are we in getting it. I think too we need to go for mathematics next but alphabet did cross my mind.

490 BC

We discover the art of iron working. The settler was on his way to the gem site already so I let him continue and decided we could build another settler for the iron site which is one tile north of our cultural borders.

This is where the iron is so we need to settle that white spot before anything else.

Ghengis Khan already on the rampage&#8230;&#8230;well we knew it would happen he&#8217;s already got an army coming at us&#8230;..help, help what to do (LOL)

We scout out GK&#8217;s lands and see that only one city is Judaist. He also picked up our religion in the last turn so as we all know him staying at eating kosher food isn&#8217;t a sure thing.

End turn synopsis.

Haithabu grew twice during my turn and is working all of the gold.
Birka was settled on red spot and working gems now
Nidaros finished a settler (Birka) built a granary and whipped a settler for overflow into a Trireme which is done in next turn. The second settler whip was done with 1 pop to grow and used only one pop so no pop loss and overflow of some 25 hammers.
Uppsala (city names sounds like a mistake) built a worker and is now farming the corn
Settler is hiding under chariot in northern site ready to claim iron.

Finances:

We dropped to 60&#37; for a few turns but after working gold/gems we are back at 70% with a buck to spare. I say we settle that iron site asap close to capitol so main low.

Research:

We finished IW and started Math which only has two turns left on it. I&#8217;d say we get construction and go get that fat farm and some of that other prime fat farm land. So getting cats soon would be beneficial. We can make up for trade loss thru running some merchants I&#8217;m sure but after having a close look at Karakorum my mind goes:
&#8220;gimme, gimme, gimme&#8221;. You could forget GP farm even and cottage the crap out of that and then see the money fly. Although I agree we need a GP farm to lightbulb astro and other necessary techs.

After construction I think we then go take a chance on alpha/lit but I want lit more so for our first GG. Nidaros although capitol is building at this point very fast. (settler in 7 turns like wow this early) A good place for HE if you ask me. Haithabu is also not bad production but Uppsala/Birka isn&#8217;t. Birka definitely will have a lot of commerce and food. EDIT: One last thing I noticed and it worried me a bit. Gandhi is running around with a galley and I though first he was going to make a landing at Hathabu (whatever) but he proceeded south with his galley. He might be heading for our future hideout. Not much we can do if he does but just be aware he does have a galley and can land on our landmass if he wants to.

HOF autolog

Spoiler :

Uppsala finishes: Archer

Turn 128 (580 BC)
Uppsala begins: Worker

Turn 129 (565 BC)

Turn 130 (550 BC)
Haithabu grows: 4

Turn 131 (535 BC)
Nidaros finishes: Settler

Turn 132 (520 BC)
Nidaros begins: Granary

Turn 133 (505 BC)
Tech learned: Iron Working

Turn 134 (490 BC)
Research begun: Mathematics

Turn 135 (475 BC)

Turn 136 (460 BC)
Birka founded
Birka begins: Library
Nidaros finishes: Granary

Turn 137 (445 BC)
Nidaros begins: Archer

Turn 138 (430 BC)
Nidaros finishes: Archer
Haithabu grows: 5

Turn 139 (415 BC)
Nidaros begins: Settler
Hinduism has spread: Haithabu

Turn 140 (400 BC)

Turn 141 (385 BC)

Turn 142 (370 BC)
Uppsala finishes: Worker
Haithabu finishes: Granary

Turn 143 (355 BC)
Uppsala begins: Granary
Haithabu begins: Worker
Nidaros begins: Trireme

Turn 144 (340 BC)
Nidaros begins: Trireme
Nidaros finishes: Settler

Turn 145 (325 BC)
Nidaros grows: 7

Turn 146 (310 BC)
Hinduism has spread: Old Sarai (Mongolian Empire)

Turn 147 (295 BC)

CFC autolog

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 595 BC to 295 BC:


Turn 131, 535 BC: The Great Lighthouse has been built in a far away land!

Turn 133, 505 BC: You have discovered Iron Working!

Turn 136, 460 BC: Birka has been founded.

Turn 138, 430 BC: Zu Chongzhi (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 139, 415 BC: Hinduism has spread in Haithabu.

Turn 143, 355 BC: Francis Bacon (Great Scientist) has been born in Delhi (Gandhi)!

Turn 144, 340 BC: You have trained a Settler in Nidaros. Work has now begun on a Trireme.

Turn 145, 325 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Birka!
Turn 145, 325 BC: Nidaros has grown to size 7
Turn 145, 325 BC: Marie Curie (Great Scientist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 146, 310 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Birka!
Turn 146, 310 BC: Hinduism has spread in Old Sarai.

Turn 147, 295 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Birka!

The Viking Lander​

 

[Cosmichail]

Second thought on Great Library.... With marble and Nidaros we could build it very fast. Our research has improved a lot since added commerce so even bypassing construction for now to get Lit. Chancey as I'd prefer military but benefits of two scientists for popping GS's is great. Only problem is though the wonder would be much better in GP farm city and I think taking Karakorum is just too far off.

EDIT: namliaM I just noticed that Nidaros is working forest when it should be working lake. Could you please change that on your turn.

2nd EDIT: I thought of one other thing I noticed. Uppsala is going to loose the corn if we don't get more culture there. We are bordered on Karakorum which at the moment is pumping out more culture but I think getting hinduism to Uppsala may keep us at an even level.

 

[GreyFox]

If Gandhi is showing off a galley, perhaps the appropriate thing for us to do is to sink it with a trireme. Afterall, our blood pact did hold us to the obligation of teaching him warfare.

I wouldn't worry abt the corn at uppsala ... afterall, it is closer to Uppsala, there is a free monument there, and with a spread of religion Uppsala should hold off Karakorum's culture fight.

I am not too sure whether we should continue with construction or switch to Alpha/Lit. I am inclined to continue with construction.

I am still upset abt the lack of a library in Nidaros though. Why granary? It is at its pop limit. Library at capitol is a must because of the 8 free commerce.

[Disclaimer: I haven't looked at the save yet]

 

[namliaM]

Uppsala should have whipped the worker ASAP, handbuilding it while working undeveloped tiles is a waste of time IMHO.
Birka, why have the 3 workers on the spice? it is going to be a while before we work that tile, we are going to be working the Rivers first. Also the farm.... In a few turns Birka will pop its borderd, picking up the sugar. Farming that would be better as it will (eventualy) get a plantation for the same effect. I would have put a cottage on that riverside...
Why is Haithabu building a worker? It should IMHO be growing and getting a lib.
I would have gone with a galley from Nadiros, which we could try to swing south of Khaan to try and get that Village... Who knows a free tech?

Why didnt you move our northern fogbusters? Could have saved us some $$$.

Do we or do we not want to go for TGL? If we can get to Math we can chop those forrest very will too. Worth 60 hammers each, with getting some hammer overflow going (maybe a 50? Which translates into 100 with marble) add 4 forests thats 340 allready out of the 525 needed inside of say 4 turns or so. Adding 4 turns of production = 200 hammers (marble bonus!) and its there. I think we should take a shot if we can build TGL in just 4!!!! Turns ???
With our current research it will take approx 2 (Math) + 13 (Alpha) + 11 (Lit) = 26 turns to get at the point where we can start TGL. So by the end of Fox' set we should/could have TGL. While in 12 we get the priest.

Re: Losing the corn, that may happen if we dont get our culture up. Karakorum tho is on the 2rd expansion allready and needs to get a lot of culture before expanding to 3 tho it is hard to guestimate when that will happen. We have some 87 turns to our second which is to long I think, getting a library and/or religion and/or temple in there will really help that situation.

With 4 workers (and 1 on the way) we have 5 cities (soon) we are low on workers IMHO with so much (jungle) chopping ahead of us, I hope to rectify that...

We are 12 turns from the Priest, do we want to use it to get the shrine (and net 3gpt) or settle it (and net 2 hammers/5gpt) and gamble on getting a later one to make the shrine?

Gandhi is really burning rubber on research, he has both Alphabet and Math allready.


Roster
namliaM -- +1 gmt (Actually 0 atm due to DST) > Got it but wait for input
Greyfox -- +8 gmt > On deck
Maquis -- -7 gmt
Bobrath -- -5 gmt
Healium -- +1 gmt -- Auto skip due to a Herniated disk *Good luck man* and be well
Scowler -- gmt
Frankcor-- -5 gmt <Lurker>
Cosmichail -- -5gmt > Upped science quite a bit

Edit:
The lib would currently bring in 3 free beakers in Nadiros, I think the granary is the right choice as we are currently -2 on the pop limit, it will help with the growing a lot...