SGOTM 04 - Xteam

[AlanH]

Welcome to your C_IV Warlords SGOTM 4 Team Thread. Please use it for all internal team communication, turn logs and discussions. Subscribe to it to receive notifications, and do not visit the other team threads for this game until you have finished. Please also subscribe to the Maintenance Thread for this game, where teams and staff may post non-spoiler information of general interest.

The Game
This Monarch difficulty game is on a Standard size, Gyathaar-special, fractal map, at Epic speed, against 7 rivals including India. All victory conditions are enabled except Diplomatic, but the laurels for this contest will be awarded to the teams who achieve the fastest Space defeat by Gandhi.

Versions
This game will be played in Warlords Version 2.08 only.

It will be played using the current version of the HoF Mod. This is version 2.08.003 for Windows. There are insufficient Mac players to form a Mac team. so it will be played in Windows only.

If later versions of Warlords or the HoF Mod are released they cannot be used for this game.

Your start file will be available on the SGOTM Progress and Results Page at midnight, server local time, at the start of February 23.

Here's the starting position - click the image below to see a larger version.



Map Parameters
Playable Leader/Civ - Ragnar of The Vikings
Rivals - 7 civs including Gandhi (who is locked in war with Ragnar)
World size - Standard
Difficulty - Monarch
Landform - Fractal, cylindrical, medium sea level, temperate
Game Speed - Epic
Diplomatic Victory Disabled
All other settings are defaults

Notes

• Please visit the C-IV Warlords SGOTM reference thread to check out the rules and procedures to ensure that you are adequately prepared for this game.
  
• Warlords v.2.08 is supported for this SGOTM. No other versions can be used, and you will have to stick with the same version throughout the game.
  
• Teams will compete for up to four awards - the Gold, Silver and Bronze Laurels for the fastest finishes, and the Wooden Spoons for the lowest scoring finisher.
  
• Awards will be given to teams who achieve Space defeats to India in the least turns.
  
• All saved game files uploaded to the server are parsed through software that extracts and archives data about your save, including reload count for each turn set.

Please enjoy the game

 

[leif erikson]

Welcome to Cactus Pete!!

And welcome back to the rest of you X-Teamers!!

I'll go and PM everyone. This one should be interesting. Hopefully, a lot of discussion on how to achieve getting Gandhi into space. I hope we can actually get it to happen this time.

 

[sanabas]

The C3C version of this got incredibly frustrating. This one should be a lot of fun.

 

[AlanH]

Please note that you have an additional new player - Frederiksberg.

 

[rrau]

Welcome Frederiksburg

Can we call you Freddy?

 

[leif erikson]

Yes, welcome Frederiksberg!!

As we have two new team members, I thought I would quickly go over how we generally operate as a team.

The person who holds the mouse is the decision maker for each turn set played. We all should provide input and bring up strategies, micromanaging, tech tree decisions, etc. as we feel the issues are important. The person playing the turn set should weigh the discussion and then decide what they think is best.

During discussion, it is very helpful to explain why you think something is important. This provides rationale for the mouse holder and education for the rest of us, and any folks who might be reading and following our thread.

Gator has told me he will be quite busy over the next couple of weeks and has asked that I keep track of the roster and keep in touch with AlanH and Gyathaar should we have any problems. I am willing to do this if you all wish me to.

If anyone has anything else to add, please post. And if our new members have any questions, please post them as well.

I'm looking forward to this, having played the Civ III version and found we couldn't launch a hamburger off a building!!

 

[rrau]

I'm looking forward to this, having played the Civ III version and found we couldn't launch a hamburger off a building!!

Did you guys build both the hamburger and the catapult? I'd suspect you'd need both

 

[Bede]

Checking in and welcome to CactusPete and Frederiksberg.

Ah, SGOTM9, sweet memories. Didn't achieve the Wooden Spoon in that one and led the only team that lost by culture to a third party, Brennus. <Checks to see if Brennus is on the roster for this game. Hmm, can't see yet>

Lay on, leif!

 

[leif erikson]

Did you guys build both the hamburger and the catapult? I'd suspect you'd need both

Well, we tried to build a bunch of very productive cities and "give" them to Gandhi to manage and build space ship parts.

What we found out was that he didn't have enough Luxuries and the resistance tore the cities apart. The population dwindled and all Gandhi wanted to do was build military to get revenge against us. Not a very successful blood pact. Well, we did fulfill our part!

 

[Frederiksberg]

Welcome Frederiksburg

Can we call you Freddy?

Why not - we like to keep things informal in Denmark.

Yes, welcome Frederiksberg!!

As we have two new team members, I thought I would quickly go over how we generally operate as a team.

The person who holds the mouse is the decision maker for each turn set played. We all should provide input and bring up strategies, micromanaging, tech tree decisions, etc. as we feel the issues are important. The person playing the turn set should weigh the discussion and then decide what they think is best.

During discussion, it is very helpful to explain why you think something is important. This provides rationale for the mouse holder and education for the rest of us, and any folks who might be reading and following our thread.

Thanks! I look forward to playing with you guys! We played pretty much the same way in Memphis Blues where I played SGOTM1-3. Normally we would try to reach a consensus and I think it's fine that the mouse holder is the one that draws the conclusion of the discussion. After all you need to understand the strategy in order to implement it.

My thoughts so far is that we should probably aim for a game with a high tech pace i.e. we should trade a lot with the AI to ensure a high tech level for all civs. And we probably have to allow Gandhi to capture some selected cities of ours. Maybe this is a game where spies could be really useful to stop the other AI's from launching through sabotaging their space ship parts.

Regarding the starting position we might consider moving to the plains hill for the extra hammer. We also need to discuss if we want an early religion - it should be possible because we are financial and can work the 3 commerce coast tiles and the lake.

 

[Bede]

First saves had Space Victory disabled. Gyaathar replaced them but if anybody downloaded the original replace it with this one

For reference

Opps.. seems I made a bad mistake here.. I somehow managed to disable space victory instead of diplomatic... if you havent started playing yet, then please wait untill I can replace the start files

Ok.. all starting saves replaced.. if someone already played with the original save, then let me know and I will modify the save you have at one point (no rush thou.. still plenty of time before you get that far into the game that it matters )

And let's hope Gandhi is not on a barren rock in the middle of an inland sea....

 

[leif erikson]

And let's hope Gandhi is not on a barren rock in the middle of an inland sea....

About to go and take a look. You know that is what it will be, you just have to know!!

 

[leif erikson]

No sign of Gandhi that we can see at the moment?

Looks to me like we are on a plains hill. I was hoping for a river as we are financial.

Unless there is something really nice nearby, this start is food rich and has a lot of hills for hammers. The shortage is in commerce, although we do have the coastal tiles that we can use and once we grow, cottages.

I agree that we want to try and keep a fast tech pace. However, we also need a good strong military as we'll need to clear some territory for Gandhi to, perhaps, expand into. I think the ultimate goal will be a bi-polar world, us and Gandhi, with Gandhi having the cities he needs for the production of a Space Ship while we ride herd over the other civs to ensure they don't meet any other victory condition.

In trading techs, we sure hope that they find their way to Gandhi. We'll need to get some scouts out and find what kind of map we have and where the resources are.

Research - Agriculture, to Bronze, Sailing and then on to Writing and Alphabet?

EDIT - Interesting discussion in the maintenance thread concerning making Gandhi a Vassal of us or someone else. Everyone ought to take the time to read it if you have a few minutes.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Looks to me like we are on a plains hill. I was hoping for a river as we are financial.

You're right! I thought it was a grassland hill.

Unless there is something really nice nearby, this start is food rich and has a lot of hills for hammers. The shortage is in commerce, although we do have the coastal tiles that we can use and once we grow, cottages.

Settle in place then? We would have high production working the hills and using the whip.

I agree that we want to try and keep a fast tech pace. However, we also need a good strong military as we'll need to clear some territory for Gandhi to, perhaps, expand into. I think the ultimate goal will be a bi-polar world, us and Gandhi, with Gandhi having the cities he needs for the production of a Space Ship while we ride herd over the other civs to ensure they don't meet any other victory condition.

Truly bipolar is probably not what we want - at least until very late in the game because it leaves us no way of speeding up research for Gandhi by tech trade. Ideally we would like the other civs to have good tech pace and rotten production and I guess we should be looking for a military implementation here .

In trading techs, we sure hope that they find their way to Gandhi. We'll need to get some scouts out and find what kind of map we have and where the resources are.

If we primarily trade away techs that Gandhi doesn't have we migth be able to help them find their way to him. We should also select trading partners that we know are willing to do deals with Gandhi.

Research - Agriculture, to Bronze, Sailing and then on to Writing and Alphabet?

Unless we want early religion.

EDIT - Interesting discussion in the maintenance thread concerning making Gandhi a Vassal of us or someone else. Everyone ought to take the time to read it if you have a few minutes.

I tend to agree with Lexad - making Gandhi a Vassal would make the game too easy. But Gyathaar says it's not possible since Gandhi won't talk to us at any time.

EDIT: According to Gyathaar it's possible to get peace with Gandhi if he becomes the Vassal of someone else and you make peace with the master. But it might be disallowed. If we are close to Gandhi attacking him early to achieve this goal would probably be the fastest road to victory.

 

[leif erikson]

Truly bipolar is probably not what we want - at least until very late in the game because it leaves us no way of speeding up research for Gandhi by tech trade. Ideally we would like the other civs to have good tech pace and rotten production and I guess we should be looking for a military implementation here .

No, I agree we don't want this until the end. I think when I talk about bipolar, I mean that we are in a position to manage things in a way that does not allow anyone to break out towards domination or cultural victories. In addition, Gandhi must be able to grow to sufficient size to keep him productive and able to research, but he cannot achieve any other victory but Space Ship. So, we will need to create a powerful Gandhi, but one that we can control through our Blood Pact.

Unless we want early religion.

I don't know if it is worth the research, especially if we miss it. We start with Hunting and Fishing, not the best place to go for early religion? Our best shot may be Code of Laws?

I tend to agree with Lexad - making Gandhi a Vassal would make the game too easy. But Gyathaar says it's not possible since Gandhi won't talk to us at any time.

EDIT: According to Gyathaar it's possible to get peace with Gandhi if he becomes the Vassal of someone else and you make peace with the master. But it might be disallowed. If we are close to Gandhi attacking him early to achieve this goal would probably be the fastest road to victory.

I also read where making Gandhi a Vassal is not disallowed. If the opportunity presents itself, we can make that decision then.

EDIT2 -
AlanH posted in the maintenance thread and then it disappeared. I keep an eye on it?

 

[Bede]

An early religion is east to get with the VIkings if you sacrifice production for it.

Settle in place is clearly the way to go, Mining then Bronze Working, then Agriculture, Animal Husbandry to Writing (I seem to remember we can skip Pottery if we go that path.

Worker first, then Warrior then Settler at size 2. First and second citizens work the lake and a forest, or one of the bare hills (mined) until we can grow corn and feed the pigs with squeezin's from the whiskey we'll be making.

Use the forests to get that first settler out.

Of course if we are on a nine tile island all the above is wrong.

 

[leif erikson]

Worker first, then Warrior then Settler at size 2. First and second citizens work the lake and a forest, or one of the bare hills (mined) until we can grow corn and feed the pigs with squeezin's from the whiskey we'll be making.

I have had some success with a Work Boat first, timed to complete with the growth to size 2, and then a Worker. Works pretty slick and speeds up the production of workers and settlers.

EDIT - I see a Clam near our hill.

EDIT2 - Please read THIS.
It is a rule change that resolves the Vassal issue, I think.

 

[rrau]

I'd agree with the settle in place. It sounds like we need to agree on research path.

Early religions and their shrine are nice for getting additional income that can boost your research. On the other hand, getting our food bonuses up and going is important to implement the whip.......which we can't do until we get bronze working.......

I haven't played as the vikings in a while, they haven't come up on my usual all random settings that I play lately. What's everyone else's thoughts?

 

[leif erikson]

What's everyone else's thoughts?

Just to be clear, I'm waiting for Gator and Cactus Pete to check in and add to the discussion before even thinking of starting. Gator should be around tomorrow and I've PM'ed Cactus Pete. As we are still working on SGOTM03, I don't see any rush, although I'd like to get someone started early in the week.

 

[Frederiksberg]

No rush. I'm still playing SGOTM3 as well.

I'm not sure that going for founding hinduism is any good I just wanted to point out the possibility and start a discussion. It would probably only work with the workboat first option i.e. going Myst-Poly while building wb and working the lake and the clam tile for maximum commerce. There is a high probability of getting hindu first this way but the question is if it's worth delaying development for this.

We have a pretty good production potential with all the forrests and hills and that makes me think about building a couple of wonders. Any suggestions now? It could of course depend on what resources we find (marble, stone, copper) that can further speed up the process. I'm bringing this up because it might influence the tech path.

It sounds like some of you have been playing around with some test games. Could you post one?

Nice that the Vassal issue was settled - it would have been pretty easy to get peace with Gandhi otherwise.