SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings

to LowtherCastle:
Well the last 200 turns were made in almost a daily progress and we missed some win oportunities.
 
Well done finishing this one with so little time left :goodjob:. I'm sure you could have won the game if you had not been forced to rush the last many turn sets.

Now that you can read the other threads I'll give you one word of advice: If you plan to read the long, long and dull MW thread then start on page 110 (!) post #2190 (!!) where a quality player finally enters the discussion :D.

And don't forget to check out the CFR thread for a more condensed version of how to beat this game in style...
 
LowtherCastle said:
Why didn't yo guys just NUKE Cyrus?... :lol:

EDIT: I remember one of my first CIV games where I got to a similar position, one AI had just way too much power and cities and all that. I just nuked the living crap out of him. Worked. His territory was all orange...
Click to expand...
Not having much experience with nukes, my concern was he would nuke us back, or that he would get SDI built. But maybe AI doesn't think nuclear unless provoked?

Scotland Yard was the big late gaffe, I think ... as we were closing in on a back door diplo if we could have sabotaged his ship.

dV
 
wow. Well, at least we finished on time :)

I should be able to get my computer looked at by the 21st, so if SGOTM6 hasn't started by then, I think I'll be good to go for the next one.

Great job getting us as close to victory as we were! Its a shame that we had bad barb AIs, we went straight for BW as well and didn't get anywhere near the help from barbs that MW got.

Also, how'd you guys do on GOTM23? I'm interested to know if C63 beat my diplo time this time around :)
 
Thrallia said:
Great job getting us as close to victory as we were! Its a shame that we had bad barb AIs, we went straight for BW as well and didn't get anywhere near the help from barbs that MW got.
Click to expand...
When did you complete BW?

Oh, btw, did you guys build Stonehenge?
 
Again, regardless of the poor finish, kudos to those who kept struggling till the bitter end. I hope we can do better next time. When I find the time, I'll try to read and learn from the other teams.

Btw, we did build SH.
 
Conquistador 63 said:
Again, regardless of the poor finish, kudos to those who kept struggling till the bitter end. I hope we can do better next time. When I find the time, I'll try to read and learn from the other teams.

Btw, we did build SH.
Click to expand...
Somehow, we got a poor start ... did not get the offensive off the ground fast enough. We actually had a lot of momentum at the end, Qin was not going to last but 10 more turns or so, and I think we had the room in our cities to outgrow Cyrus for the diplo, but for his ship.

dV
 
IMO our biggest mistakes were the mids empty shot and that we continue to push east after taking Athens instead of going West a lots of turns earlier.

Anyway you did great work without me vs Izzi and Toku at the end and only the forgoten SY was the difference between the lost and a win.
 
da_Vinci said:
Looks like BW was turn 50, we took a detour to agri to farm the bananas for pop growth before BW.
Click to expand...
You see, that detour was fatal. We carefully analyzed, in advance, how many turns it would take for Mng>BW and Mng>Agri>BW, and it wasn't possible to get agr and BW before barbs started spawning. That makes a huge difference, because once the barbs have already spawned the first set of ~20 units, then it's 1/3 chance of getting axes as replacements for killed barb units. Those replacements then have to travel to cities, etc., and by then, the AI defending archers already have CDI, II or even III, so the axes have much lower chances of winning.

You guys were the only team to go for SH early on (we could see that on the culture graph) and it was a fantastic strategy. We just didn't realize it till it was too late. What it provided you guys, that no one else had, was the ability to build the culture-bridge cities to other continents much faster, because those cities started with obelisks. So you had the opportunity to start your invasion of distant AIs sooner than anyone else...I was soooo envious of you... ;) Actually, CFR did this fast anyway, by chopping the South Gate obelisk....
 
Yes, you're right on target, it was a big mistake going for Agri. But then again our team lacked knowledge on the details of game mechanics involving time and quantities of barb spawning to take a well informed decision. I have read just the first few pages of your thread and must say I was soooo envious of MW having klarius on their side... ;)
 
Conquistador 63 said:
Yes, you're right on target, it was a big mistake going for Agri. But then again our team lacked knowledge on the details of game mechanics involving time and quantities of barb spawning to take a well informed decision. I have read just the first few pages of your thread and must say I was soooo envious of MW having klarius on their side... ;)
Click to expand...
I think we had an experience in someone's test game that the barb axes were not proving to be that effective ... which I think was posted in our thread. It was with that assumption in mind that I was running simulations of mine>BW vs mine>ag>BW and finding that the pop growth from ag made mine>ag>bw faster than mine>bw>ag. So under the assumption that early bw was not that helpful, we went for the ag insertion.

It appears that the simulation that gave poor barb axe results was not representative, so we were making decisions based on a faulty assumption.

Even with the ag insertion, we would have done better if we had not suffered somewhat from oscillating between different strategies, either one of which probably would have been effective if fully followed, but neither one effective if on again, off again. Unanimity of method was difficult for us in this game.

dV
 
I think we need to follow a more detail oriented approach next game. I really like how thoroughly CFR argues their points BEFORE any moves are made. I feel like we did not effectively communicate our short or long term strategies, that led to turns being wasted because of confusion. If you go look at CFR, there is a period in the middle of their thread where Balbes and IL2T are having a difference of opinion about tactics, it took them maybe 40 posts to sort out their options and come to a consensus. Their posts were very detailed, turn by turn analysis, maps with detailed move by move drawings. I know it is very time consuming, and we may not be committed to that level of excellence. But it is something to consider!
 
da_Vinci said:
the simulation that gave poor barb axe results was not representative, so we were making decisions based on a faulty assumption.

Even with the ag insertion, we would have done better if we had not suffered somewhat from oscillating between different strategies, either one of which probably would have been effective if fully followed
Click to expand...
Two very important points. Luckily for us, we had different test maps that gave drastically different results.

On the strategies, CFR beelined AH and the general consensus is that it was the better choice, but only because of horses in the fat crosss, which no one could know in advance.

Yes, klarius' ability to analyze and know the game mechanics is phenomenal. But it's not a requirement to win, as CFR proved.
 
Ronnie1 said:
I think we need to follow a more detail oriented approach next game. I really like how thoroughly CFR argues their points BEFORE any moves are made. I feel like we did not effectively communicate our short or long term strategies, that led to turns being wasted because of confusion. If you go look at CFR, there is a period in the middle of their thread where Balbes and IL2T are having a difference of opinion about tactics, it took them maybe 40 posts to sort out their options and come to a consensus. Their posts were very detailed, turn by turn analysis, maps with detailed move by move drawings. I know it is very time consuming, and we may not be committed to that level of excellence. But it is something to consider!
Click to expand...

I definitely don't think I've got the 'commitment' to discuss things that much, as discussion over every exact mvoe makes Civ feel less like a game, and less enjoyable, than it does a chore.

I definitely think we need to not play turnsets until we've got a solid plan set out, and I think our plan should be both a short-term and long-term plan(eg. 20 turns and 1 inning in length, possibly game long). That may lead to a few times when we'll get behind where we want to be in playing...but as we saw this SGOTM, more discussion and a slight delay early could lead us to a much faster conclusion.

I think all of us are good to great players, so if we can agree on an overall plan, I think we could fairly easily get in the range of winning laurels.
 
I think that another issue that may have rushed us was the size of the team, and concern that slow play would cause members to lose interest. So we may have pushed on at the 72 hour mark before we were really ready a few times.

If the lag between times we each actually play is not an issue, then we are free to discuss in more depth early on, where it seems to really matter.

dV
 
If you ask me, a good solution would be to run a few tests, playing the games all the way to the end before even making the first move. But I haven't found anyone willing to do that yet. For the Gandhi in space game, that would hve been huge. My theory on how to get Gandhi into space 100 turns faster than CRC did it?

Don't even settle the northern half of the continent (after your capital, of course, because you don't know where G is yet). Let Gandhi settle it all by himself. Just settle southward toward GK. That way, Gandhi gets all those nice cities without any war weariness when you let him capture them.​

But who would have thought of that without playign the game to the end first?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Gwaja
Barbarian Challenge #2
Replies
16
Views
664
Gwaja
Gwaja
Gumbolt
[BTS] SGOTM 27 interest.
2 3 4
Replies
77
Views
11K
Gumbolt
Gumbolt
Nizef
  • Sticky
TSG 243 Announcement
2
Replies
23
Views
1K
cocls
C
AlanH
  • Sticky
[PTW] News: GOTM 193 (China Regent) Results and Congratulations
Replies
7
Views
289
ignas
ignas
Sommerswerd
  • Poll
Who Are You Picking To Win The Superbowl? - Superbowl 58
2
Replies
22
Views
956
Gori the Grey
Gori the Grey
Top Bottom