Conquistador 63
Deity
I agree. I could play tonight if I have the final save by then. Else I might ask to be skipped/flipped as I'll most likely be away from tomorrow until Sun night.
SGOTM 05 - Gypsy Kings
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
OK, I'll make an executive decision
Lehm, if you log on tonight, go ahead and research agri, and play until we get that ... after the worker, start the barracks, Upload when you get done with agri.C63, I think then you could play until we get to BW or get the settler built (we would have to decide exacty where to settle at that point), whichever comes first. Unless some surprise arises.
If Lehm can't upload tonight, then hopefully he plays to agri tomorrow, and then hellwitch will play if C63 is confirmed to be away after today. Then, depending on how many turns we get in before C63 gets back, we insert him either behind hellwitch or behind me for this inning.
dV
Lehm
Gypsy Jester
give me another 5 minutes and I´ll have uploaded the save...
Lehm
Gypsy Jester
Okay, done. We are at turn 24 now and the worker came out by the same turn when we developed Agriculture. Scout was heading West to ckeck the rest of our island.
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
Ok, C63 is up, if he can get his set in tonight before he leaves.
Seems clear that we want to get BW next, work on barracks until we get to two citizens who can work the farmed bananas and the mined pighill, then switch to setttler I think, end set when BW is done or settler is done (whichever comes first).
We will then need to pause to discuss where to settle our cities, and what to research next.
Great leadoff turnset, Lehm!
Did the barbs join us on agri, for 6 "extra" beakers per turn?
dV
Seems clear that we want to get BW next, work on barracks until we get to two citizens who can work the farmed bananas and the mined pighill, then switch to setttler I think, end set when BW is done or settler is done (whichever comes first).
We will then need to pause to discuss where to settle our cities, and what to research next.
Great leadoff turnset, Lehm!
Did the barbs join us on agri, for 6 "extra" beakers per turn?
dV
Conquistador 63
Deity
OK, I played up to 2500BC, T50, when BW was discovered, and uploaded the save.
Autolog:
We have a barracks and a warrior, and we're 2 turns away from reaching pop4. I suggest we grow to 4 (start building a warrior), revolt to slavery, change build to settler and whip it for 2 pop (90h) when we can.
We'll have to discuss where to settle - there is copper in the jungle as hw predicted.
"Autoteching" proceeded as below:
. fishing, hunting 2 bpt
. myst 1bpt
. wheel 1bpt then 3bpt since T44
. BW 13 bpt (our own) now done
. Masonry 2bpt since T32 then 4bpt since T46
. AH 2bpt since T33
. I set research to IW but no beakers invested. I wonder if this is the best option, after all.
Barb spamming:
. animals: 21 @T23, now 11
. 11 warriors, 12 archers (been growing since T46), 2 axemen (since this turn)
Autolog:
Spoiler :
We have a barracks and a warrior, and we're 2 turns away from reaching pop4. I suggest we grow to 4 (start building a warrior), revolt to slavery, change build to settler and whip it for 2 pop (90h) when we can.
We'll have to discuss where to settle - there is copper in the jungle as hw predicted.
"Autoteching" proceeded as below:
. fishing, hunting 2 bpt
. myst 1bpt
. wheel 1bpt then 3bpt since T44
. BW 13 bpt (our own) now done
. Masonry 2bpt since T32 then 4bpt since T46
. AH 2bpt since T33
. I set research to IW but no beakers invested. I wonder if this is the best option, after all.
Barb spamming:
. animals: 21 @T23, now 11
. 11 warriors, 12 archers (been growing since T46), 2 axemen (since this turn)
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
Sounes good C63!
I assume we know archery? Have not seen the save yet, but my first thought is that we need mysticism next if we want henge ... in my sims henge went at turns 81 and 80 to AI, Oracle in 85 and 101, and Pyramids at 116. Henge or no henge has tons to do with where we put cities, I think.Now for a look at the save!
dV
Archery was shown as learned in the autolog...C63, how'd you get those attitude and religion changes to show up in the autolog? are those new additions in the new mod?
I assume we are considering Henge for the +1 culture? I wonder if we think it is possible for us to get both Henge and Pyramids?
If it isn't, which do we think will speed up our conquering of the world more?
I assume we are considering Henge for the +1 culture? I wonder if we think it is possible for us to get both Henge and Pyramids?
If it isn't, which do we think will speed up our conquering of the world more?
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
Looking at the save, Good work C63!
Won't any real shot at mids require masonry and wheel? And a good productoin city? If we settle 1 east of the stone, with Henge it pops to include the gold and the clams ... a decent production city, gold for fast research. So does henge allow us to place our cities in more advantageous locations?
Looks like one east of the copper is a mega production site. It can use two farms that overlap with capital, and has three grass hills plus the copper to mine.
We also want to consider where we might need cities for culture bridges to conquer more before astronomy.
hellwitch is up, I'm on deck. We probably need to take a day or two to sort out the numerous options here ... what to research, where to found cities, what wonders to pursue.
Let the discussion begin!
dV
hummm. http://gotm.civfanatics.net/ web site don't work. I can play tomorrow evening anyway.
i got the save.
I've made a dot map.
I think we must go wheel>Myst now as we dont need farms.(Our cities will be at most 2 pop for long time because of WW) and we need road to connect the stone,the gold and the copper. And Myst can go second because we have settler to build first then the henge.
As the dilomatic screen shows - Toku,Ashoka,Izzi and the peasians are on the big continent(it sure unreachable with boat). Sal is SW of us and is close enough. Qin is NE and it could be reachable. Alex is between us and the big continent (only litlte of his border is there). I have peace option for Alex now too. From AI's town only Delhi is visible and it don't look good for the barbs - on a hill with already 40% culture diffence.
And one question - How many turns i have?
I've made a dot map.
I think we must go wheel>Myst now as we dont need farms.(Our cities will be at most 2 pop for long time because of WW) and we need road to connect the stone,the gold and the copper. And Myst can go second because we have settler to build first then the henge.
As the dilomatic screen shows - Toku,Ashoka,Izzi and the peasians are on the big continent(it sure unreachable with boat). Sal is SW of us and is close enough. Qin is NE and it could be reachable. Alex is between us and the big continent (only litlte of his border is there). I have peace option for Alex now too. From AI's town only Delhi is visible and it don't look good for the barbs - on a hill with already 40% culture diffence.
And one question - How many turns i have?
Conquistador 63
Deity
I'm away from the game, but was looking at some of proposed dotmaps. I propose the following (which combines some of the dotmaps):
. city 2 goes N of stone. It will have a sea resource and hammer from stone before border expansion. It was labeled 3A in dV's dotmap?
. city 3 goes N of rice. 2A in dV's dotmap?
Rationale behind proposal: allows us to connect stone in city2 before SH, closer to capital. When city3 is founded we'll probable have SH (or can build obelisks) by then, so we'll be able to work gold soon. If it is true that our cities will have happy cap pop of 2, we'd better work 2 good productive tiles in each of them.
To accomplish this, I'm with hw: wheel next, worker roads to stone. I think fishing will be autoresearched. Only that Masonry could come next, then Mysticism. I'd rather have the quarry done before starting SH. Maybe we could complete fishing (a couple of turns research) after settler is done to build a fish boat in capital, while it regrows for next whip.
More thoughts on diplomatic grand plan later.
. city 2 goes N of stone. It will have a sea resource and hammer from stone before border expansion. It was labeled 3A in dV's dotmap?
. city 3 goes N of rice. 2A in dV's dotmap?
Rationale behind proposal: allows us to connect stone in city2 before SH, closer to capital. When city3 is founded we'll probable have SH (or can build obelisks) by then, so we'll be able to work gold soon. If it is true that our cities will have happy cap pop of 2, we'd better work 2 good productive tiles in each of them.
To accomplish this, I'm with hw: wheel next, worker roads to stone. I think fishing will be autoresearched. Only that Masonry could come next, then Mysticism. I'd rather have the quarry done before starting SH. Maybe we could complete fishing (a couple of turns research) after settler is done to build a fish boat in capital, while it regrows for next whip.
More thoughts on diplomatic grand plan later.
g_storrow
Prince
I thought we were going to make peace with most people to focus our/barbarian attacks and make sure WW is not crippling come the AD years?
If so why did we turn down Alex offer of peace?
If so why did we turn down Alex offer of peace?
Lehm
Gypsy Jester
IMO we should make peace with everybody and follow g_storrows strategy of DOW on those who have the most barbs around. And I think it´s absolutely necessary to let our cities grow. The WW should be on a level low as possible. And as we never will have any good relations to our opponents it doesn´t matter if they are furious with us at -4 or -2000 in relation. At least those who are near to us. Maybe we can try to make peace with Ashoka on long term to be able to tech trade with him. He will be our last victim...
Conquistador 63
Deity
The question of peace or war is still cloudy on my mind. WW isn't an issue at the moment (although it can be in the future - I haven't tested it but I believe in our teammates opinion). Then why should we rush for peace so soon? Isn't it better to hinder our opponents progress, at least for a while?
Could someone enlighten me about the benefits of getting this early peace?
OTOH, I could understand getting peace from the guys that are packed together (Izzy, Toku, Cyrus, Asoka), so they don't get the mutual military struggle diplo bonus. They have a good chance of getting annoyed with each other as 2 different religions were founded there. But for the guys who are isolated (Alex, Qin, Sal), I don't really see the point.
I don't remember the details, but IIRC Saladin should be our first target. And I suspect we will be able to reach most civs before Astro - well, maybe except Qin.
Could someone enlighten me about the benefits of getting this early peace?
OTOH, I could understand getting peace from the guys that are packed together (Izzy, Toku, Cyrus, Asoka), so they don't get the mutual military struggle diplo bonus. They have a good chance of getting annoyed with each other as 2 different religions were founded there. But for the guys who are isolated (Alex, Qin, Sal), I don't really see the point.
I don't remember the details, but IIRC Saladin should be our first target. And I suspect we will be able to reach most civs before Astro - well, maybe except Qin.
The reason is that in a couple of the peaceful tests that were done, the barbs tended to focus more on the AIs we were still at war with, thus doing more damage to those AI.
Another reason is to make peace when the barbs start founding cities, so that the AI can't take those cities and get free expansion
Another reason is to make peace when the barbs start founding cities, so that the AI can't take those cities and get free expansion
da_Vinci
Gypsy Prince
Since we are still early, something in the neighborhood of 20 turns makes sense to me (the first two played 25 each) ... will we have some logiocal break point around 20 (tech done, build done)?
But we don't want to play farther ahead than we have gotten consensus on the plan ...
Here are two plans for cities ... both based on a 4 mine city in the center for HE and primary troop production (how do we NOT found that city?), one with the canal, one without. Note the culture bridge to the west ... maybe the main landmass is within early reach after all?
dV
Attachments
Ronnie1
Deity
I haven't had time to update my system, so I can't load a save yet.
I assume we intend to settle the stone city as city #2 if we are going for wonders.
Per dV's second screen, what about moving city #3 east by 1 square to get the better tiles SE into the fat cross? EDIT: After a closer look, I see that misses the gold unless we give up the canal and move city #2 south. I think I like the canal with the clams and stone in the skinny square better.
I hope to be able to get my system up soon, but I am completely snowed under by RL at the moment.
More screens are very helpful for me right now!!
I assume we intend to settle the stone city as city #2 if we are going for wonders.
Per dV's second screen, what about moving city #3 east by 1 square to get the better tiles SE into the fat cross? EDIT: After a closer look, I see that misses the gold unless we give up the canal and move city #2 south. I think I like the canal with the clams and stone in the skinny square better.
I hope to be able to get my system up soon, but I am completely snowed under by RL at the moment.
More screens are very helpful for me right now!!
Is there enough food to support those mines?
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