Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
I'll be picking it up tonight and reading all the comments more in depth... (Right after the BBQ 
)
)
SGOTM 05 - Misfits
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Since I can't ascess the save, i don't know where Nanjing is, however i think it is the holy city so good job
.
Instead of astronomy, caravels may be needed to defend our land since a few people have them already. Astronomy is still needed to get frigates ASAP though.
Cavs in 130 turns!?!
perhaps we need to trade a bit to help us with that. Anyone have liberalism yet?(doesn't hurt asking)
.Instead of astronomy, caravels may be needed to defend our land since a few people have them already. Astronomy is still needed to get frigates ASAP though.
Cavs in 130 turns!?!
perhaps we need to trade a bit to help us with that. Anyone have liberalism yet?(doesn't hurt asking)cnwjr
Warlord
Interesting question.
Is it worth converting briefly to Bhuddism to try to make easier peace with Cyrus, and perhaps get a tech trade with Asoka, Cyrus (& maybe even Toku)?
We would have to change twice. Once to and once back to Christianity. This would cost two turns of lost productivity. However, even a single tech can possibly gain that back in terms of research cost. The question is what to trade as we don't have much that others want.
My opinion on that is trade anything for anything. We are and will be behind in research until a long time later when (if) we have whittled down the other civs.
One drawback is that we would not get the two points of experience per completed unit during this time.
At a minimum, I would wait until guilds has been completed. (5 turns?)
Is it worth converting briefly to Bhuddism to try to make easier peace with Cyrus, and perhaps get a tech trade with Asoka, Cyrus (& maybe even Toku)?
We would have to change twice. Once to and once back to Christianity. This would cost two turns of lost productivity. However, even a single tech can possibly gain that back in terms of research cost. The question is what to trade as we don't have much that others want.
My opinion on that is trade anything for anything. We are and will be behind in research until a long time later when (if) we have whittled down the other civs.
One drawback is that we would not get the two points of experience per completed unit during this time.
At a minimum, I would wait until guilds has been completed. (5 turns?)
cnwjr
Warlord
I don't think anyone has liberalism, but for us to get to it would take about 95 turns. Education is the slowdown there. Astronomy would be faster. I think we will get caravels soon. We have a lot of points towards it due to tech bleed from our barb allies. If we do it, we are about 2 turns from completion at this point. Same thing applies to a lot of the older techs (drama, music). In fact, we might get drama this turn. In 5 at most as barbs are putting the points in.
Nanjing is the next city up from Qin's capital. His capital can be isolated from reinforcements (except by sea) as it is blocked by a mountain range.
It might be worth going on a quick (or not so quick) raiding mission(s) on Qin's strategic resources with the keshiks. Iron, horses, copper all come to mind.
Edit: Another consideration. We are one of the smallest civs and the others are growing rapidly. Do we want to start taking lots of territory or raze what we take (other than useful cities with wonders/shrines).
Nanjing is the next city up from Qin's capital. His capital can be isolated from reinforcements (except by sea) as it is blocked by a mountain range.
It might be worth going on a quick (or not so quick) raiding mission(s) on Qin's strategic resources with the keshiks. Iron, horses, copper all come to mind.
Edit: Another consideration. We are one of the smallest civs and the others are growing rapidly. Do we want to start taking lots of territory or raze what we take (other than useful cities with wonders/shrines).
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
I'll discuss any cities if/when I take them. I think we could do that easily...
EDIT: Got it and have played about 1/2 of it.
Decisions we need to make:
- Great Scientist from Old Sari in 1556 - Academy in Capital or Philosophy? I say academy, we'll get Philo for free soon, let's get a vote on it.
- Refound some cities? One of the spots where Sal had a city is nice enough. I started a Settler, but we're currently training knights.
- Anyone got ideas on the FP location? In China? Same with Nat. Epic. Be thinking... I started the HE in our gold/stone city. I think we should keep Chengdu and Gaungzhau for now. And build the FP over there.
- Do we want to stay at vassalage for the XP or move to Bureaucracy for better capital output?
Here's the odd thing. Nanjing revolted the turn it came OUT of revolt. Right now, after the 2nd riot, it sits at 7.5% of revolting again, which means we'd lose it if it happens. As it was, Qin was coming back at us, we beat a horse archer, but lost a spearman and keishek. So, to take off the pressure, I attacked Chengdu. Also, since I noticed he had optics, I didn't want to chance a galley sunk with troops if he had a caravel. (It turns out he has none at present, and we have two!) I now have some troops, including a knight, about at Nanjing, but I really want to attack again. We won't be ready for the capital until after my turn, but I think I can take the ones we may want. Or have it all set up for the next turnset.
So, since we're on a holiday here in the US, and a weekend... we can take a moment to ponder before I finish up.
EDIT: Got it and have played about 1/2 of it.
Decisions we need to make:
- Great Scientist from Old Sari in 1556 - Academy in Capital or Philosophy? I say academy, we'll get Philo for free soon, let's get a vote on it.
- Refound some cities? One of the spots where Sal had a city is nice enough. I started a Settler, but we're currently training knights.
- Anyone got ideas on the FP location? In China? Same with Nat. Epic. Be thinking... I started the HE in our gold/stone city. I think we should keep Chengdu and Gaungzhau for now. And build the FP over there.
- Do we want to stay at vassalage for the XP or move to Bureaucracy for better capital output?
Here's the odd thing. Nanjing revolted the turn it came OUT of revolt. Right now, after the 2nd riot, it sits at 7.5% of revolting again, which means we'd lose it if it happens. As it was, Qin was coming back at us, we beat a horse archer, but lost a spearman and keishek. So, to take off the pressure, I attacked Chengdu. Also, since I noticed he had optics, I didn't want to chance a galley sunk with troops if he had a caravel. (It turns out he has none at present, and we have two!) I now have some troops, including a knight, about at Nanjing, but I really want to attack again. We won't be ready for the capital until after my turn, but I think I can take the ones we may want. Or have it all set up for the next turnset.
So, since we're on a holiday here in the US, and a weekend... we can take a moment to ponder before I finish up.
i've seen 2 caravels, one was asoka's one was qin's. philosophy has been researched aswell i believe. We really need to leach techs off enemies during war time now. next turn if we can get 1 catapult, 1 longbowmen, one maceman, and perhaps the axeman from copper city, across to beijing with out other units, i am pretty sure we can wear it down and capture it. 2 turns of bombarding, then 3 catapult attacks should leave the rest easy to clean up. Up to the player though i guess.
I expect other civs will build on vacant land we leave after raising cities. though if we make sure we completely wipe out each civ as we go, those newly built cities on land we share will be some extra income when we flatten them.
edit: i don't think we can afford to keep every city? nanjing and bieing we keep, they can pay for themselves, the other chinese cities we raze!!!!
edit: i don't think we can afford to keep every city? nanjing and bieing we keep, they can pay for themselves, the other chinese cities we raze!!!!
I didnt want to give cyrus any more military at the moment incase he does attempt a raid, though he is based a long way away. i did send one galley from the west across to pick up units to transport, but the 4 other galleys are getting back rather swiftly.
Yes there is another galley being built in mecca, i was thinking it could ship 2 macemen over to mainland then head back west. Qin does have optics, cyrus doesnt. I scouted that city of cyrus near our border. it has a spearman and a longbowmen. there is a worker floating about there also.
Getting that catapult and longbowmen over to china quickly, with the galley i took from the west, will allow us to take beijing sooner. drop in nanjing and move units from there to beijing, bombard 2 turns with 3 catapults, and then our other galleys would arrive in time to seal the deal.
Yes there is another galley being built in mecca, i was thinking it could ship 2 macemen over to mainland then head back west. Qin does have optics, cyrus doesnt. I scouted that city of cyrus near our border. it has a spearman and a longbowmen. there is a worker floating about there also.
Getting that catapult and longbowmen over to china quickly, with the galley i took from the west, will allow us to take beijing sooner. drop in nanjing and move units from there to beijing, bombard 2 turns with 3 catapults, and then our other galleys would arrive in time to seal the deal.
cnwjr
Warlord
GS should go at whatever city has best commerce production. I'm not able to see the game ATM, but I think that might be Old Sarai anyway. We can also hold it to see the next tech after Philo. I know there is a chart somewhere which lists the techs each type of GP makes, but again, I'm on the wrong computer to look.
I'd stay at vassalage. I don't think our capital has the production to make it worthwhile (8). We will be getting pyramids with Qin's capital. Then, we will be switching to Police State probably for the WW. No point in wasting a rebellion in between.
FP in China is fine, but it will be a long time coming.
When we take Beijing and whatever the city to the north of Nanjing is, we should relieve the pressure on both for revolt. In the meantime, the best we can do is strongly garrison. Kinda wish we had a magical GA to pacify the city.
Go ahead and build where you think there is a useful benefit. I put in the small city south of our capital, and while it will be some time before it is productive, it is already using the commerce from the dyes.
I'd stay at vassalage. I don't think our capital has the production to make it worthwhile (8). We will be getting pyramids with Qin's capital. Then, we will be switching to Police State probably for the WW. No point in wasting a rebellion in between.
FP in China is fine, but it will be a long time coming.
When we take Beijing and whatever the city to the north of Nanjing is, we should relieve the pressure on both for revolt. In the meantime, the best we can do is strongly garrison. Kinda wish we had a magical GA to pacify the city.
Go ahead and build where you think there is a useful benefit. I put in the small city south of our capital, and while it will be some time before it is productive, it is already using the commerce from the dyes.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
I wasn't thinking of all the cities, Piko, just a couple. But I can raze them just as easily!
cnwjr
Warlord
To keep a city, check what it gains us.
Suggested criteria for keeping as opposed to razing:
1) Has vital resource we don't already have or want to deny to others. (coal, oil, iron, etc.)
2) Is large and has good production around it (mines, workshops, iron, etc.)
3) Has significant commerce production. (gold, dye, towns)
4) Wonders, shrines
5) Key physical location (block routes, connect territory, etc.)
Remember not to pillage all the useful resources and towns if we plan on keeping the city.
Suggested criteria for keeping as opposed to razing:
1) Has vital resource we don't already have or want to deny to others. (coal, oil, iron, etc.)
2) Is large and has good production around it (mines, workshops, iron, etc.)
3) Has significant commerce production. (gold, dye, towns)
4) Wonders, shrines
5) Key physical location (block routes, connect territory, etc.)
Remember not to pillage all the useful resources and towns if we plan on keeping the city.
cnwjr
Warlord
After a quick check, it appears we can also hold the GS and use him in a few turns to apply towards education if we want to try for liberalism. We would need to get paper first.
cnwjr
Warlord
To keep cities from revolting, there are only a few things you can do.
1) Garrison it heavily - the stronger the garrison and the stronger the units, the less likelihood of revolt.
2) Take/raze nearby enemy cities.
3) Put your own religion in the city. (get a missionary there) (double garrison effect)
4) Build lots of culture (difficult in short term)
1) Garrison it heavily - the stronger the garrison and the stronger the units, the less likelihood of revolt.
2) Take/raze nearby enemy cities.
3) Put your own religion in the city. (get a missionary there) (double garrison effect)
4) Build lots of culture (difficult in short term)
cnwjr
Warlord
After thinking about it, it is probably a tossup on Old Sarai and on the capital for the GS. The capital has a number of cottages->towns under development and will pass Old Sarai in commerce. Even more so if we ever get printing press to add +1/+2 to the towns.
I think we need to see how many points the GS would provide towards a tech like Education. I don't think it will research it completely, but it might shave 20+ turns from the research.
At this point in the game, there are a number of different tech paths to choose from. Some help with infrastructure and research. Others help primarily with war. If we are going mainly for conquest, we need to focus on those most closely related to war (including defensive techs).
Depending on where we stand with research points from the barbs, we can probably get a quick lower tech or two in a few turns. This may or may not be of much use in the long run.
I think gunpowder is the best choice, but I'm willing to listen to arguments either way. Another valid choice might be Paper-> Education-> Philosophy-> Liberalism to get Astronomy.
I think we need to see how many points the GS would provide towards a tech like Education. I don't think it will research it completely, but it might shave 20+ turns from the research.
At this point in the game, there are a number of different tech paths to choose from. Some help with infrastructure and research. Others help primarily with war. If we are going mainly for conquest, we need to focus on those most closely related to war (including defensive techs).
Depending on where we stand with research points from the barbs, we can probably get a quick lower tech or two in a few turns. This may or may not be of much use in the long run.
I think gunpowder is the best choice, but I'm willing to listen to arguments either way. Another valid choice might be Paper-> Education-> Philosophy-> Liberalism to get Astronomy.
I think Acadamy in the capital will surpass the use of it for education. Mind you it would be interesting to see which civs may or may not be already on that path, i know the AI can be slow to get education, but that doesnt mean someone like asoka isnt well on his way to getting liberalism already.
Mastiff_of_Ar
In his Element
Either way we're going to need a strong navy. Asoka is way outteching us, it's a shame no one is fighting him. Izzy and Toku are at it and Alex and Cyrus are fighting, too.
I'm going to go finish my turnset. My big dilema is moving troops out of Nanjing to attack, or keeping them there to garrison.
I'm going to go GS academy in the capital, as it seems like we almost agree on it... I don't think we'll beat Asoka to liberalism. We should tech towards war, we can't catch him unless we can kill him.
EDIT: New save is up
Continuing:
1562 -
Sank a galley with a HA aboard
Traded stone for gems since we aren't using the stone at present. Get them back when/if you want.
1565-
Built academy in capital
Nanjing revolts AGAIN! But we don't lose it...
1568-
Dyes to Alex for 7g
1571-
We get Music!
1574-
Qin and Cyrus both sue for peace, wanting stuff from us. I tell them to go pound sand.
Clams to Izzy for 7g
Clams to Toka for 4 g
1577-
Take Chengdu and keep if for the copper and cows. Plus, tons of trees to chop. We do take losses... two cats and a longbowman. Qin sends over a maceman, and has also killed a knight and bowman. Another longbow is on the hill about to enter the city, and a spearman is guarding. I hope he can hold out.
Not much else, but here are some issues and things to know:
- HE is done in 12 turns... I wish it were quicker.
- Two knights are headed for the boats outside the capital
- I've pillaged iron and horses, but Qin is rebuilding the horses east of Chenhdu. We may want to stop it.
- Two cats a knight and a maceman are outside Qin capital. Not enough to take it yet. Cats are bombarding.
- The Punjab problem. I don't want to start a war, but Asoka isn't giving open borders, and when Punjab expands we'll be cut off from the south islands. Alex also has a settler headed to clam islands. He'll get there a couple turns shy of us expanding over the island. He may make us a city... in the meantime, we have to decide how to get around.
I'm going to go finish my turnset. My big dilema is moving troops out of Nanjing to attack, or keeping them there to garrison.
I'm going to go GS academy in the capital, as it seems like we almost agree on it... I don't think we'll beat Asoka to liberalism. We should tech towards war, we can't catch him unless we can kill him.
EDIT: New save is up
Continuing:
1562 -
Sank a galley with a HA aboard
Traded stone for gems since we aren't using the stone at present. Get them back when/if you want.
1565-
Built academy in capital
Nanjing revolts AGAIN! But we don't lose it...
1568-
Dyes to Alex for 7g
1571-
We get Music!
1574-
Qin and Cyrus both sue for peace, wanting stuff from us. I tell them to go pound sand.
Clams to Izzy for 7g
Clams to Toka for 4 g
1577-
Take Chengdu and keep if for the copper and cows. Plus, tons of trees to chop. We do take losses... two cats and a longbowman. Qin sends over a maceman, and has also killed a knight and bowman. Another longbow is on the hill about to enter the city, and a spearman is guarding. I hope he can hold out.
Not much else, but here are some issues and things to know:
- HE is done in 12 turns... I wish it were quicker.
- Two knights are headed for the boats outside the capital
- I've pillaged iron and horses, but Qin is rebuilding the horses east of Chenhdu. We may want to stop it.
- Two cats a knight and a maceman are outside Qin capital. Not enough to take it yet. Cats are bombarding.
- The Punjab problem. I don't want to start a war, but Asoka isn't giving open borders, and when Punjab expands we'll be cut off from the south islands. Alex also has a settler headed to clam islands. He'll get there a couple turns shy of us expanding over the island. He may make us a city... in the meantime, we have to decide how to get around.
Spoiler :
I guess I am up now. However, since we are zooming ahead of the other teams, I won't play for a while. My previous turn was on the last page(OK, it is in the first few posts but that doesn't matter) so we should get some discussion going. I can't looking at the save yet but I will offer comments in the next post I make.
cnwjr
Warlord
At this point, I'm not sure what additional remarks I can make. No one seems really interested in making a group decision. Each player makes his own decision as he is playing. While this is OK for fun, it really has no place in a serious game. Thus, this game is for fun based on the way it has gone.
yer its odd like that, i always ask group info, in fact, i always act on group info. though i guess i never wait at the start of my turn, i always read the forum daily so know what everyone wants, so i aim to achieve those goals as efficiently as possible.
as for current actions? we are building up to take beijing, we need to do ASAP to make this current mission a complete success, else it will start costing us more than i hoped.
Asoka is a pain, its a shame it wasnt ghandi, i'm a tad confused about what to do at the moment apart from wipe china off the face of the earth. and continue to build up our naval. Perhaps we should try to incite a war on the mainland to slow those buggers down?
as for current actions? we are building up to take beijing, we need to do ASAP to make this current mission a complete success, else it will start costing us more than i hoped.
Asoka is a pain, its a shame it wasnt ghandi, i'm a tad confused about what to do at the moment apart from wipe china off the face of the earth. and continue to build up our naval. Perhaps we should try to incite a war on the mainland to slow those buggers down?
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