SGOTM 05 - Murky Waters

[klarius]

And this obviously leads to the need to pasture the pigs for the capital.

Hmm, klarius, after that we have even too much food between the two cities.
Then the mined hill would be beneficial to MM pop-rush unhappiness.
BTW, the whole thing boils down to civ3 like MM between the cities.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Guys, I think it behooves to put some thought into optimizing this turnset for worker actions, city builds, and wb exploration.

Simplified Priorities:
1. GC Settler
2. (Sailing) Qin Galley w/Settler4 & Worker3
3. MW, Erkp Granaries squeezed in somewhere.

Any geniuses willing to MM that?

Spoiler :

With WW, it's clear we need to prioriatize settling GC with a wkr there to mine the gold. In addition to the GC settler, we also want to get granaries built, get Erkopper functional, and get started on some cottages.

In particular, I think we want to farm and/or cottage asap the southern 2 river grass and the dyes (forget Calendar) to stave off jungle creep AND road to the gold.

EDIT0: Do we need another worker before the GC settler?

EDIT1: On exploration, we could try to see if there's a Qin connection to The Continent or explore toward Alex. With Qin, I expect our wb will get blocked by lack of OBs, so maybe it's better to have the wb loop around to the E of those nearby islands and then go S toward Alex?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Hmm, klarius, after that we have even too much food between the two cities.
Then the mined hill would be beneficial to MM pop-rush unhappiness.
BTW, the whole thing boils down to civ3 like MM between the cities.

Well, hopefully we can squeeze in an obelisk around the time we get Mysticism. That's one good thing about your poprushing plan, we can postpone Myst till after Sailing, I guess.

 

[klarius]

In principle we need only one (make that two, in case MM is not perfect ) irrigated grass and the banana to be shared between the two cities.
Then 2 cottages and that's all we can work with our current happiness level .
So I think we don't need more workers currently.
Something just coming to my mind , don't connect the copper immediately with both workers, send one chopping. Otherwise the warriors change to spears and will not complete according to my evil plans.
Later the workers should team up to get at least one irrigation in place fast. One of them them leading before the settler after that to have the road on gold already done.

I think settler should be build in Erkopper, immediately following the warrior. Change to copper with 1 turn to grow. Then the warrior should complete with growth and we even get a bit of overflow into the settler. Then switch to copper and banana.
MW building granary next. As we grow slow anyway, while EK has the nanas, we might want to hand build it working the last forest also. But we could also pop-rush shortly before completion and put the overflow in a barracks, as there's probably time for an axe or 2 before sailing.

So now, LC, you can work my gut feeling plans into a real plan with spreadsheet and all, if you like.

 

[LowtherCastle]

speaking of roading copper, if we're planning to farm the roaded grass first(so we don't lose wkr mvmt turns), we don't even need to connect copper yet, do we?

 

[Mîtiu Ioan]

Got it !!

Just now will take a look over the save. Hope internet will not be disconnected this evening ...

Regards

 

[klarius]

EDIT1: On exploration, we could try to see if there's a Qin connection to The Continent or explore toward Alex. With Qin, I expect our wb will get blocked by lack of OBs, so maybe it's better to have the wb loop around to the E of those nearby islands and then go S toward Alex?

Very probably its enough to return on the other side of QG.
We see already most of the coastline of Qin and there's ocean everywhere. Only if there would be an archipelago leading all the way to Beijing there could be a connection. And that would be a logistics nightmare to ship to there.
But we need 2 WBs for QG anyway eventually, so if we somewhere can fit another one in in MW that would also not hurt. Still first priority for MW is granary, soon another settler (BTW forget this barracks nonsense, posted by klarius above).

 

[klarius]

speaking of roading copper, if we're planning to farm the roaded grass first(so we don't lose wkr mvmt turns), we don't even need to connect copper yet, do we?

Yes, you are right. And since we don't need the chop right away, we could irrigate with both workers.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Got it !!

Just now will take a look over the save. Hope internet will not be disconnected this evening ...

Regards

@Mîtiu Ioan: I'm not sure everyone has had a chance to discuss the current save yet. Gnejs is coming home tonight too. How about waiting till tomorrow to play and we'll see if we can come up with some sort of consensus on what our strategy is now?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Can anyway give the number of (toward the warriors) and in MW and EK, really fast? If not, fie on the whole lot of you...

 

[klarius]

Mw: 9/22 14/36
Ek: 18/22 28/33

 

[LowtherCastle]

Mw: 9/22 14/36
Ek: 18/22 28/33

Thx. looking good so far. I have manually building it on T21 w/o chop. But 1 wkr needs 22 turns to road up to Gold City and from EK the settler gets there in exactly 2 turns! So (first atempt)...

After Cu, wkr1 roads to gold, finishing on T23. Wkr2 chops. EK hijacks bananas, pop2 at end of T2, Granary done on T8, exactly half-full, warrior finishes, pop3, poprushed settler done on T22, arrives across T23-finished road to settle T24. (Haven't tried manual at pop2 instead of growing to pop3 after granary done. Also haven't looked at MW w/o hijacked bananas.)

 

[klarius]

I don't think it pays off anymore to road towards gold city. We have other jobs to do.
So in contrast to my former opinion , I wanted a worker just to lead the settler to road the gold hill itself (and waste all these juicy worker turns).
The connection of the gold city is then still coming in time with sailing (coming in 21 turns currently).

But there is another thing, why we may want to delay sailing and put priority on mysticism.

I checked the code, for barbarian build preferences.
If I understand it fully correctly (improbable), they will build barracks next.
After that (11 turns), there's always a (small) chance they are starting to build a wonder, if they can.
And Persepolis would need only 13 turns to build Stonehenge by then .

Please check at what the barbarians are building after the current archer.

 

[LowtherCastle]

One more request: How many turns till MW's next poprush? (I'm skeptical that prioritizing the use of bananas for production over popr growth is optimal...)

(I expect to see either Sal or Qin pop out SH in the next turnset or so, but I like Myst for other reasons...)

EDIT: I also thought about the road thing w/sailing coming. We would gain 17 wkr turns doing that, although the wkr still needs 6 turns to get to the gold. (We lose 3 more wkr turns coming home but that's much later).

 

[Erkon]

How about this worker plan:

Worker activities after copper mine is completed:

worker1 stay and build road, then cottage 1N of Erkopper, then cottage 1NE of Erkopper, then cottage 1S of MW (will take about 21 turns)

worker2 moves 2E, then build road connecting Erkopper with stone (will take about 19 turns)

EDIT: Rationale: a) cottages take 6 turns, farms take 8 turns. b) we don't need farms, since both MW and EK will have +4 food / turn when pigs are pastured and MW works cottage on plains. 4 fpt => 2 pop / 10 turns which is enough (actually too much).

 

[klarius]

One more request: How many turns till MW's next poprush? (I'm skeptical that prioritizing the use of bananas for production over popr growth is optimal...)

(I expect to see either Sal or Qin pop out SH in the next turnset or so, but I like Myst for other reasons...)

10 turns unhappiness wise. Next pop-rush is granary IMO, so too much food doesn't help.

How about this worker plan:

Worker activities after copper mine is completed:

worker1 stay and build road, then cottage 1N of Erkopper, then cottage 1NE of Erkopper, then cottage 1S of MW (will take about 21 turns)

worker2 moves 2E, then build road connecting Erkopper with stone (will take about 19 turns)

We don't need copper hooked currently. We need the irrigation and also (IMO) the chop. After that the workers are free for cottages (not more than 2 will be worked short term) and 1 helping gold city.

And another BTW. I don't think we should send a worker to QG to chop for obelisk. That's just 7 turns faster and removes 1 hammer for ever. And I just plain hate to have a worker on transport that long, just for 1 tile.

 

[Erkon]

The WB will not be blocked by the lack of OB. We're at war, remember!?

I just spotted a coast tile SE of Qin next to the continent (west of persepolis). If so, and if Qin makes contact, we definitely have to get Qin first...

And since the WB cannot gap the ocean, it has to return S (to Alex) although with the detour to scout east of QinGate

 

[LowtherCastle]

10 turns unhappiness wise. Next pop-rush is granary IMO, so too much food doesn't help. If we poprush granary, we should do it with absolute minimum overflow (1) otherwise half goes to , right? Or am I mixing this up with Warlords?

And another BTW. I don't think we should send a worker to QG to chop for obelisk. That's just 7 turns faster and removes 1 hammer for ever forever we'll be watching others finish their game . And I just plain hate to have a worker on transport that long, just for 1 tile.

10 turns faster. 30/3/turn = 10 turns. Let's wait to see, but if we're ready 10 turns is HUGE. ( or is that forest on plains, i forget?

 

[Erkon]

10 turns unhappiness wise. Next pop-rush is granary IMO, so too much food doesn't help.


We don't need copper hooked currently. We need the irrigation and also (IMO) the chop. After that the workers are free for cottages (not more than 2 will be worked short term) and 1 helping gold city.

And another BTW. I don't think we should send a worker to QG to chop for obelisk. That's just 7 turns faster and removes 1 hammer for ever. And I just plain hate to have a worker on transport that long, just for 1 tile.

Why irrigation? Do we really need the food? We can do pop2-rush every 15 turns into axes (52 prod = 2 pop). And it takes (36 + 39) / 2 = 38 food to regrow. Thats 2.5 food / turn. We can manage this without pasturing the pigs, just by sharing the banana (excuse me if I'm a bit slow since you stated this in an earlier post )

I don't want us to forget the -thing...

 

[Erkon]

What cities are we planning? As I see it, we can either settle one or two cities more on our continent (pre-IW):

Klarius Klam (stone + clam) + Gold City (gold + rice)
or
Drojf

I suggest the twin cities, since they will both be profitable and we can use poprush more efficiently with two cities than one.

We then have QinGate (and another nice city on the island NW of QG. Plains/hills + fish + clam => good whipping opportunity even without granary and lighthouse)

This means we need another 2-4 settlers. What do you think?