SGOTM 06 - Fifth Element

[greatbeyond]

I have played 8 turns, I am assuming we are staying with the plan of switching to 15 turns per set.

Our 2nd city has been established and we are just about finished with Writing (2T). We are losing 2G per turn and with only 11 Gold we may have to cut back on the Science spending.
We are 4 turns from producing Worker2, do we want to start the Oracle and use the Chop we will be completing to give it a boost?.

Research - IF we go for the Oracle, (I know it's contrary to what normally happens) we could research Masonry and then Choose Mathematics as our free tech and be very close to producing Powerful Pachyderms. Ideally we would delay the Oracle until after we get Mathematics. With the Added 50% from Chopping, the Oracle would be completed that much quicker, then we take Construction as our free tech.

I have considered attacking the Barbarian Archer outside of York (84% chance), it will gain us a promotion if we win. If I was playing by myself I would probably Risk it. Is it worth the risk?

Perhaps we should send our Axeman toward Timbuktu to keep Mansa pinned
down.

One other clue I've gleaned from the Scores, Hannibal is most likely near Alexander as they share the same religion. ( I know that's probably stating the obvious)
These are the Turns so far, let me know what you think. I will make the rest of my Turn in about 18 to 20 Hours.

Spoiler :

Great Beyond

1570BC - Promote Archer to 25% bonus against Archery units, sorry Blubmuz but I feel that if we happen to move next to an enemy unit, we won't have time to upgrade before being attacked. We still have one promotion available for this unit
Promote Axeman to City Raider 1, move 1S, 1SE
Move Warrior 1S to gain benefit of 75% defensive bonus, reveal a few more tiles, ntohing of interest
Move Archer 1SE, reveals more jungle
Switched London Tiles from Banana to Lake to cut 1 turn off research for Writing (9T vs 10t) we don't suffer any production drop.

1540BC - Settler is built, work continues on Archer
Archer moves 1SW revealing a Barbarian Warrior 1SW
Warrior stays in place near Alex
Axeman moves 1 SE
Settler moves 1S, 1SE
Continue working the Lake vs Bananas as It only cuts our growth
from 42 to 22 turns, and I feel we need to get ahead on Techs

1510BC - Our Archer kills a Barbarian Warrior (defending) moves 1SW
Axeman moves 1SE
Settler Moves 1SE
Warrior stays in-place, no activity from Alex

1480BC - Archer moves 1SW to Jungle covered hill
Axeman moves 1E
Settler moves 1SE, 1E
Warrior stays in-place

1450BC - Archer produced in London. What to build next, Oracle is only 20Turns. Temporarily switch to Axeman, didn't realize there was an overflow of 16 shields. Switch to Worker (7T)after checking the Team plan, Change from working Lake to Bananas.
Warrior moves 1N, reveals Alex has 4 Archers, Workboat and Worker
Archer 1 moves 1W
Axeman and Settler move 1SE reveal a Barbarian Archer 1E, luckily we are on the other side of the river and on a Jungle square. We see Mansa Musa's Scout 1S
Archer #2 is promoted to +25% vs Archery units, This becomes important as Barbarian Archers become more numerous. He moves 1E
We change from working the Bananas to the freshly mined tile. This should give us a small research spillover.

1430BC - Warrior Stays put
Archer 2 Moves 1W back to London
Worker moves 1N to Forest
Axeman and Settler move 1E, That damn Barbarian Archer has moved onto our city site. Do you think he knows what wwe intend. Will he fortify there and force us to change our plan, or attack and risk losing all three units?
Because of this I upgrade Archer1 with Drill 2, one extra First Strike, then I fortify him.

1390BC - Warrior 2 sees that Alexander has completed a Settler. I assume he will move it out with and escort of two archers. Anything less and we maybe able to intercept with our axeman and destroy his Archer and enslave a worker.
The Barbarian Archer has moved off our city site and we move our Settler and Axeman 1E.
Archer1 is moved 1SW to our city site
A Barbarian Warrior moves into sight of London
Archer2 moves 1E to intercept the Warrior
Worker starts chopping(5T) this will be done at the same time our next Worker is.

1360BC - Mansa's Scout moves 4S and 1E of London
York is founded as planned. We start building an Archer.
Warrior1 stays in place, no movement from Alex
Archer2 moves 1E to protect our worker an extend our line-of-sight
Axeman and Archer1 stay in York. Should the Axeman attack the Barbarian Archer it is 84% chance of success and will gain us a promotion.

Here are some current screenshots

 

[Civicide]

Hey everyone,

I just drove 16 hours overnight to hang out with my brother and sister-in-law over Christmas (1100 miles, roughly equivalent to driving from Rome to London, as I understand it), but I'm now back online and I'm just checking back in.

I'm in 100% agreement that the red dot was the place for us to settle, with horses and all those elephants it should be a very helpful city.

Also, good job in pillaging Alexander's gold. Just keep the warrior close and Alexander should be substantially hurt.

Has anyone else pegged this as a potential city site?

Spoiler :

Otherwise I'm just catching up on the plan and hoping to be somewhat more conscious and among the living come tomorrow. Everything looks to be on track so far.

 

[dutchfire]

@Civicide, I had seen that city site already, double gold, cows, fish

@greatbeyond, I wouldn't attack the archers right now, they're across a river. Let them attack us.

 

[Merum]

Agreed. Let the archer come to you. Otherwise, stay on the plan.

 

[BLubmuz]

Hi all
since you're all in deep sleep, i start this post, then i'll edit while reading reports and opinions.

I agree to wait the barbs come after us, if risky (an axe vs/archer can be). We can gain a promotion even defending, since we need only 1XP, being charismatic.
Well done start an archer in York, but switch to barracks 1-2 turn(s) before it completes.

Civ, that spot is a must.
Still, i wish to settle a city to grab gold and rice before that.
yes, something longer than i went in London from here, perhaps from Rome you must add some mile (i can remember a 16 hours trip from Cherbourg to here).

CoL is a must, for 3 reasons:
- courthouses
- a religion
- York's free borders expansion

in addition, to delay it is risky, we're already in late to my plan, and around 1000 BC it's not *so* safe, even at prince.
to add more, construction costs exactly the same amount of beakers as CoL, and producing WE is too expensive for now.

I've carefully read your report: good job, for the play and for the report.
I missed that archer 1 would have 2 promotions, well done cover+drill2.
Chop the worker or the Oracle changes nothing, since we have not bonuses: better chop the worker, he can gives his contribution sooner.
Loosing 2 gpt is good with a city that far, and we gain a bit 'cause it's connected by the river, and probably this compensates the % of research we'll soon need to cut.

Of course we don't need, nor can be so detailed reporting when the game advances, it's now we must carefully weight every single particular.
Because it's now that we win or loose, unless we make big mistakes in the mid-game.

Any suggestion to what research after writing?
since the workers will be busy roading and improving York, IW is a chance, perhaps.

 

[Merum]

Any suggestion to what research after writing?

We have elephants. We need to beeline to construction/HBR and start razing enemy cities ASAP. Construction first, we can build a cat stack while we research HBR.

 

[BLubmuz]

wow!
still awake, or already awake?
for me, is OK, i was just wondering that know where iron is can help.
but, of course i think that with eles and cats we can wait to see it.
We don't need HBR (this is not BtS) not only we don't need it, better avoid it: i prefer 2 chariots to 1 HA.

Thus, straight to Math-masonry-construction?

BTW, i followed the links in your sig ... interesting.
Since you are here, it comes in mind one thing: is there some way to find an address or an email, or both if i give some info about the person i would try to contact? If there is, and i can ask, i'll PM you the data.

 

[Merum]

Still awake, was playing in a poker tournament. (Finished 8th)

Off to bed now... I keep forgetting this is warlords, and I'm thinking BTS.

You're welcome to ask me, I'll help you if I can...

 

[BLubmuz]

Thanks Merum, i need to find something very old, then i'll PM you.
Good night.

 

[Civicide]

I'd be open to other suggestions, but for the time being a beeline straight to Construction seems mandatory for this game (once we get CoL of course). If we use our archers to continue to harrass while cranking out elephants and catapults en masse, we should be able to quickly roll over our nearby rivals. Construction will expedite this particularly since both the capitals that we've found are on hills, and one of them is Mansa (I hate fighting skirmishers pre-construction, of course, I'm usually keeping Mansa alive as a trading partner, too). We can delay for agriculture and pottery, but that should be pretty much it.

After Construction, we'll need to grab sailing + calendar. We have far too many calendar resources near us not to take advantage of that ASAP.

From there, hopefully the game basically plays itself .

My thoughts for the immediate timeframe are: continue with the plan outlined in #115, focusing on the Oracle.

Even if we decide on Alex as our first target, we still need to keep forces up at MM to continue to harrass him. I don't want him to pull his usual Mansa Musa tricks and be at longbows in 15AD.

 

[BLubmuz]

Civ,
i can't have said it better.
this is the natural follow-up to my plan.

We can better define a plan, decide how many cities to settle (2 can be OK).
Let's not forget Hanni, as financial he can be a true danger (remember SG4?).
After the Oracle we must build units to send in pairs to pillage everything in sight (i already said this time ago, but "repetita juvant").

I was thinking to diverge by this path for IW for:
1) see where it is
2) clear that jungle.

I'll try another dot map with the new infos, then i'll try to put together a plan, that will cannot be so detailed as my first one, but try to give some target.

IMHO, if we got a plan to follow, with steps to accomplish, it's easier to verify if we're doing well.

for now, here is a dot map. some city is overlapped, but we're not planning a time victory. it's just a medium to use as reference.
The green city can be 1W, on the coast (it seems better) anyway i think it should be our next city.
To build a decent SoD, we need a decent production.

Not a plan yet, only the turns needed for any tech, at the rate set by the last uploaded save.
7 Agri
8 Pottery
9 sailing
6 masonry
18 IW
27 math
38 contruction

the only thing that comes in mind is that we need a library after some units.
I'll wait to post a plan 'til the end of my TS.
Remember, we can fail, and i don't consider it accomplished 'til the "you have completed the O..." pop-up.
Not to post a plan before that it's a way to "knock wood" (seems you say this way down there)

 

[Merum]

One thing I think we're all forgetting: Let's remember what Hannibal became, and did to us, the last time we met him. He needs to be found, fixed, and disposed of, ASAP. Even ahead of Alex, in my opinion.

EDIT: I must have skimmed over the sentence Blubmuz wrote about him in his previous. We need to assign some priority to him.

Here's a longer-term thought: We need to get coastal soon, and find the rest of our enemies. You know Gyathaar is not going to let us get away without somebody we need boats to reach, and they won't be at war until we find them. This will let them grow their economy and build "at peace", which could spell real trouble for us down the line.

Because of this, we need to keep sailing, and later, Astronomy, in mind, as well as a coastal city, probably the double gold spot we need to settle next. We may also want to keep Athens, as it has good food sources.

 

[BLubmuz]

No doubt to keep Athens, with the GW.
Seafood, gold and probably 1 more resource, plus stone in it.
We'll whip a CH there, and keep that powerhouse, poco ma sicuro.

I'd like too the fish/cow/2gold city, but i think is better 1W of the green spot before, to have a kind of block.
there's another reason to settle the green one before: less distance from palace.

We can discuss and decide this, before to draw a plan.

 

[Civicide]

I think the dotmap looks good. The overlap between green and yellow shouldn't hurt much. Yellow can work the fish and gold x2 and stay at size 3 for all eternity, for all I care . Green is probably the higher priority (particularly since we can work the gold as soon as we're size 2).

The one disadvantage to moving it 1W that I can see is that it will need to have its borders pop before we can work the rice. Going with the dot as drawn allows us to get on the gold (and still grow) quite a bit sooner.

Yellow will need border pops before it'll be useful, too, so that's something to keep in mind.

As I've said, I'd bet money that Hannibal is to our SE, based on where the scout came at us from, and from the fact that both he and Alex are Hindu. If I were searching for him, I'd start at the red dot:

 

[BLubmuz]

I think you can be right.
Perhaps he can be on the coast, otherwise there's no connection possible between him and Alex.
More dangerous, beig financial, we must send the first axe/archer mini-stack to harass him.
But first we need another archer to harass Alex: not only he's on the coast, but he's aggressive: i fear he's got copper, then his axes.
You need a cavalry to beat a C1+shock axe fortified in a city hill with 40% culture, a protective archer is a pet, compared.

about the green city:
i agree, on coast will be better after borders expansion, where i drawn is better in the short term, the borders thing is a bet.

Anyway, also the Yellow one needs to expand borders before to grab fish and cow.
Probably we must think to chop/whip libraries to expand borders, with that gold they can be also a good boost to research.

 

[Sweetacshon]

Damn. I had written a fair bit, and pressed a s/s without opening it in a new window Anyway, I was wondering what thoughts were on having a break until new years?? I know I'll be busy for the next week.

The game is going well, I feel, but let's hope the oracle comes our way. A couple of general points:

• Let's not forget MC for forges - great for keeping the units flowing
• Sailing - a couple of galleys, or maybe triremes - going in opposite directions is a must, considering the map type, coupled with the fact that G's maps typically have a galley crossing point or perhaps a culture bridge point between continents.
• Cities - we probably shouldn't build too many, and there is no need for fillers, imo. The AI capitals will typically be better spots
• workers - I think it was MW who used this method to great effect previously... each conquering stack marches with (or just behind) a roading worker stack, effectively doubling the army speed, as well as allowing reinforcements more quickly.
• Intelligence is the key to good conquest (or overwhelming force ), so it'd be nice to keep an eye on all AIs metals... still, I'm not sure when to fit IW in.

 

[Merum]

Also of particular note is that if we capture the GW in Athens, we won't have to worry about barbs entering our territory, so we can leave gaps, saving lots of money on city maintenance. This will let us cherry-pick our city spots. In all of my games that I played up to the beginning of this one, money became a huge problem. This is definitely a conquest and not a domination. (Unless we end up alone on a continent with land mass over the dom limit, which I seriously doubt )

 

[greatbeyond]

We have seen Alex and Mansa both build a second city. Barbarians are appearing more frequently. The Oracle is in sight, but we need to build our military very soon. I think the next two TS will be critical. I think we must decide if we want to pop rush the Oracle as soon as we can or do we risk it and wait?

I have attached the complete text of my Turn narrative

Spoiler :

Great Beyond

1570BC - Promote Archer to 25% bonus against Archery units, sorry Blubmuz but
I feel that if we happen to move next to an enemy unit, we won't
have time to upgrade before being attacked. We still have one promotion available for this unit
Promote Axeman to City Raider 1, move 1S, 1SE
Move Warrior 1S to gain benefit of 75% defensive bonus, reveal a few more tiles, nothing of interest
Move Archer 1SE, reveals more jungle
Switched London Tiles from Banana to Lake to cut 1 turn off research for Writing
(9T vs 10t) we don't suffer any production drop.

1540BC -Settler is built, work continues on Archer
Archer moves 1SW revealing a Barbarian Warrior 1SW
Warrior stays in place near Alex
Axeman moves 1 SE
Settler moves 1S, 1SE
Continue working the Lake vs Bananas as It only cuts our growth
from 42 to 22 turns, and I feel we need to get ahead on Techs

1510BC - Our Archer kills a Barbarian Warrior (defending) moves 1SW
Axeman moves 1SE
Settler Moves 1SE
Warrior stays in-place, no activity from Alex

1480BC - Archer moves 1SW to Jungle covered hill
Axeman moves 1E
Settler moves 1SE, 1E
Warrior stays in-place

1450BC - Archer produced in London. What to build next, Oracle is only 20Turns.
Temporarily switch to Axeman, didn't realize there was an overflow of 16 shields.
Switch to Worker (7T)after checking the Team plan, Change from working Lake to Bananas.
Warrior moves 1N, reveals Alex has 4 Archers, Workboat and Worker
Archer 1 moves 1W
Axeman and Settler move 1SE reveal a Barbarian Archer 1E, luckily we are on the other
side of the river and on a Jungle square.
We see Mansa Musa's Scout 1S
Archer #2 is promoted to +25% vs Archery units, This becomes important as Barbarian
Archers become more numerous. He moves 1E
We change from working the Bananas to the freshly mined tile. This should give us a
small research spillover.

1430BC - Warrior Stays put
Archer 2 Moves 1W back to London
Worker moves 1N to Forest
Axeman and Settler move 1E, That damn Barbarian Archer has moved
onto our city site. Do you think he knows what wwe intend. Will he
fortify there and force us to change our plan, or attack and risk l
losing all three units?
Because of this I upgrade Archer1 with Drill 2, one extra First
Strike, then I fortify him.

1390BC - Warrior 2 sees that Alexander has completed a Settler. I assume he
will move it out with and escort of two archers. Anything less and we maybe able to intercept
with our axeman and destroy his Archer and enslave a worker.
The Barabarina Archer has moved off our city site and we move our Settler and Axeman 1E.
Archer1 is moved 1SW to our city site
A Barbarian Warrior moves into sight of London
Archer2 moves 1E to intercept the Warrior
Worker starts chopping(5T) this will be done at the same time our next Worker is.

1360BC - Mansa's Scout moves 4S and 1E of London
York is founded as planned. We start building an Archer.
Warrior1 stays in place, no movement from Alex
Archer2 moves 1E to protect our worker an extend our line-of-sight
Axeman and Archer1 stay in York. Should the Axeman attack the Barabarian Archer
it is 84% chance of success and will gain us a promotion.

1330BC - Mansa's Scout approaches London, Archer2 stays put.
Warrior 2 stays put
1 turn left for writing
Switch from working hill 1SE to Lake as it won't delay the Worker but increases Scienceby 1 to 22B

1300BC - We learn Writing and start Mathematics All units stay put
Alex builds one more Archer in Athens
A Barbarian Warrior is trying to work up the nerve to enter London's suburbs

1270BC - Our Workers finish chopping
Alex moves a Settler and two archers out to the Gold hill. I assume they will want to move North
for the best spot to settle, so I will leave our warrior where he is. If we are lucky , Alex will attack
and lose one Archer. I will also move our Axeman out of York toward them (1SW)

1240BC - Worker is built and both Workers are moved to the tile 1S, 1SE of London to chop and then road.
14 turns to the Oracle
Alex moves his Archers and Settler to the wooded Hill just South of us.
Archer2 is moved to cover our workers
Axeman moves 1S

1210BC - Axeman moves 1SW and reveals one Barbarian Warrior an Archer nearby, perhaps they will help with Alex?
Alex's units move 1N as predicted
Workers start chopping
Science Slider goes to 90%

1180BC - Axeman moves 1S, reveals yet another Warrior
Warrior2 stays in place to force Alex's Units closer to the Barbarians
Archer2 moves 1SE, 1 unit away from our Workers, ready to move to York if disaster looms.
Mansa appears to have founded a new city to his South

1150BC - Alex builds Corinth on the River to the South of York
Warrior2 moves 1S and sees that Alex has sent another Archer out who is 1SE of Warrior2
Alex has also built another Archer
Our Axeman doesn't stand a chance yet in destroying Corinth so he will move back towards York 1N
Our Workers finish chopping, the Oracle is now only 9T away, One Worker starts roading

Blubmuz - up
Sweetacshon on deck
Civicide
Merum
Great Beyond just played


Screen shots:

 

[Civicide]

For our convenience, Here is the save.

It's generally good to post a shortcut to it in your turn report.

 

[BLubmuz]

Good one, GB

Mine was not a long TS, not much to think, just kept on the plan, even if in late

London's Oracle gave us the secrets of CoL in 940 BC
The game is all but won, but it's a good achievement.
Pity i forget to switch to barracks before the archer completed.

here is the autolog.

Spoiler :

Turn 96/660 (1120 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:32:32]

Turn 97/660 (1090 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:33:28]


Turn 98/660 (1060 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:34:03]

IBT:
While defending in the wild near York, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 99.4%)

Turn 99/660 (1030 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:34:16]


Turn 100/660 (1000 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:34:48]


Turn 101/660 (985 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:35:12]

IBT:

Turn 102/660 (970 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:36:46]
York finishes: Archer

IBT:
Judaism founded in a distant land

Turn 103/660 (955 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:37:14]
York begins: Barracks (25 turns)
London finishes: The Oracle

IBT:
State Religion Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'no State Religion' to 'Judaism'
Civics Change: Mansa Musa(Mali) from 'Paganism' to 'Organized Religion'

Turn 104/660 (940 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:37:58]
Tech learned: Code of Laws
Confucianism founded in York
Confucianism has spread: York
London begins: Axeman (4 turns)

IBT:

Turn 105/660 (925 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:40:01]

IBT:

Turn 106/660 (910 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:41:01]
London finishes: Axeman
York's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 107/660 (895 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:41:38]
London begins: Archer (3 turns)
Confucianism has spread: London

IBT:

Turn 108/660 (880 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:42:53]

IBT:

Turn 109/660 (865 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:43:17]
London finishes: Archer
York grows: 2

IBT:

Turn 110/660 (850 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:43:45]
London begins: Library (10 turns)
Tech learned: Mathematics

IBT:

Turn 111/660 (835 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:44:37]
Research begun: Masonry (5 Turns)
While attacking in the wild near Utica, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Greek Warrior (Prob Victory: 100.0%)

IBT:

Turn 112/660 (820 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:45:46]
While attacking in the wild near Utica, Axeman defeats (5.00/5): Greek Warrior (Prob Victory: 100.0%)
A Mine was built near London
London begins: Axeman (4 turns)

IBT:

Turn 113/660 (805 BC) [22-Dec-2007 10:52:53]

to note that:
- Alex founded his 3rd city (the second was founded long ago),
- we're in sight of a Carthaginian city defended by an axe
- and the fresh Jew MM too has a 2nd city S of Timbu.

i think that York's position is perfect, the city is close to 2 AI, enough to serve as a hub, not much to be threatened.

The worker is roading the last tile to York, next he'll go on horses.
I roaded the hill near London to wait Math was in before finish the mine.
I hope you will approve my choice to build a library in London, with that gold a +25% is huge.
I started masonry, according to the plan, but perhaps a slight deviation to agri or pottery can help, before start contruction. Now i'm pretty sure IW can be delayed.

Short term goals:
1) send a mini-stack of pillagers to Alex, i'd like to see his land
2) same for Hanni, perhaps 3 units is better, since he's got axes: we must find and pillage his copper, also spears are dangerous for our mounted units
3) a 2 unit stack for MM, too. he seems the weakest, but better watch him
4) a couple chariots, when online, can go to scout the north.

remember: chariots are cheap (same as an archer), fast and powerful enough for their cost: a stack of chariots is deadly, and they has an attack bonus vs/axes.

some screenies

Spoiler :

the save

the roster
before to play next TS, better have a short term plan, now our curiosity is satisfied

Sweetacshon UP (skip?)
Civicide - on deck
Merum
Great Beyond
Blubmuz - resting

Sweeta asked for a pause until new year.
I think we can play 1 or 2 more TS before Xmas, then another couple before the end of the year.
We can also pause and try to draw a plan.

Graph:
I was expecting we was first on culture, but CRC is ramping culture and power, curious to see what they did.