SGOTM 06 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[Compromise]

It will be tomorrow before I'm able to get this one run.

I'm starting to warm to the idea of the iron/cows city. It may work well with a pillaging campaign. If we can deny copper to the AIs, then our swords will face (at best) archers and possibly horses. Is that your thinking, Swiss?

Also, does anyone mind if I run the turns until we get Construction? We've been on hiatus for a while, and if I run a 20T turnset or so, that might move us along a bit.

 

[Compromise]

I've still got the save. My Civ time yesterday was rudely interrupted. I'll be playing tonight though.

 

[Compromise]

Exciting times:

I started off by concentrating mostly on Axe production. We've got several spears and chariots.

First order of business was to lure Alex's 3-archer stack onto flatlands:



Note that I've got 6 or so units able to attack him without crossing a river. We had 99% odds on our Cover Axe, and 2 spears also won at 73% odds. Threat eliminated.

I started sending Pillage units towards Athens, when I noticed some interesting Greek culture:



Hey! Alex settled Iron for us! And with wheat and a floodplains in the BFC with the iron!

At this point, I decided to go all out for conquering some Greek cities. Roads were built to the Ivory city. Axes, spears and chariots amassed within our borders.

Meanwhile:



Our Sentry chariot decided to earn us a little money toward Construction. The barbs helped run interference. At one point, it was simply beautiful: two barb archers descending on Timbuktu from the N and NW while I pillaged cottages SE, E and NE. Timbuktu is now cottage-free!

Also, the chariot revealed no metal for Mansa. Maybe something up north in the desert, but I think we're safe to leave him for last on this continent.

Meanwhile, back on the Greek front, a force has been assembled:



Corinth fell with a single axe lost. By the time we have Construction, we should also have a roaded elephant camp!

The 250BC mark reveals our standing in the world:



I'd rather see the tech rankings, but Bede is the venerable one.

In 190BC, the Great Lighthouse is biafl.

As I'm getting into position to get an iron city, a barb archer is one step ahead of me. Sadly, the barb archer only knocks down Alex's lone CG1 archer to 2.6/3.0. The effect is that we have to fight a CG2 Axe for control of iron in Thebes.

Wait...Thebes? Isn't that an Egyptian city name? Was this a barb city first? I don't know. But at the loss of another axe, it's ours now. And Alex had even improved the Iron for us. When I killed the Greek archer sitting on top of it though, our chariot found:



Well, I certainly didn't expect to see that! Fortunately, the chariot had another movement point left. In Thebes now are an axe, a spear and a chariot. Only the spear is unwounded. Another axe is 1 tile away.

Even though we're only 3T away from Construction, I decided to stop here. We'll have some planning to do.

I failed to do much strategic pillaging--only got cash from Mansa by ridding him of cottages. I'm sure he'll rebuild them for us before we get around to him.

We doubled our city count and in 3T we'll have ivory and iron, though the iron won't be connected to our empire just yet. I think we need to plan some troop deployments. And probably organize a serious pillage party or two.

I also did some roading near London to make barb defense a bit easier, but that worker can probably be brought south to help with the iron connection effort. There are some troops up north too who could be brought down to help.

We might also want to think about learning Mysticism so we can chop an obelisk in Corinth and make elephant-city more productive.

The 175BC save

Spoiler Autolog :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 400 BC to 175 BC:

Turn 140, 400 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Barbarian's Warrior (1.29)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Combat Odds: 100.0%
Turn 140, 400 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 140, 400 BC: (Barbarian Combat: -5%)
Turn 140, 400 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 10 (90/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 10 (80/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (63/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (26/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 37 (0/100HP)
Turn 140, 400 BC: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 141, 385 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) (5.00) vs Barbarian's Warrior (2.40)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Combat Odds: 99.3%
Turn 141, 385 BC: (Barbarian Combat: -5%)
Turn 141, 385 BC: (Plot Defense: +75%)
Turn 141, 385 BC: (Combat: -50%)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 14 (86/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Barbarian's Warrior is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 141, 385 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) has defeated Barbarian's Warrior!

Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Alexander's Archer (2.60)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Combat Odds: 99.0%
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Combat: -25%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman (4.40) vs Alexander's Archer (3.30)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Combat Odds: 73.6%
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (32/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (15/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman (4.40) vs Alexander's Archer (3.30)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Combat Odds: 73.6%
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 17 (49/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 142, 370 BC: Churchill's Spearman has defeated Alexander's Archer!

Turn 145, 325 BC: You have constructed a Library in London. Work has now begun on a Axeman.
Turn 145, 325 BC: You have trained a Axeman in York. Work has now begun on a Chariot.

Turn 149, 265 BC: You have trained a Axeman in York. Work has now begun on a Chariot.

Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (5.85)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Combat Odds: 23.1%
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (City Defense: +95%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer has defeated Churchill's Axeman!
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (4.50)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Combat Odds: 63.0%
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (City Defense: +50%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (City Attack: -45%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 18 (28/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Spearman) (4.00) vs Alexander's Archer (2.01)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Combat Odds: 97.3%
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (City Defense: +95%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (10/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (0/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Spearman) has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Spearman (4.40) vs Alexander's Chariot (2.00)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Combat Odds: 99.4%
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: (Combat: -100%)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Chariot is hit for 29 (71/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Chariot is hit for 29 (42/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 13 (87/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Chariot is hit for 29 (13/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Spearman is hit for 13 (74/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Alexander's Chariot is hit for 29 (0/100HP)
Turn 150, 250 BC: Churchill's Spearman has defeated Alexander's Chariot!
Turn 150, 250 BC: You have captured Corinth!!!

Turn 153, 205 BC: The Great Lighthouse has been built in a far away land!

Turn 155, 175 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Corinth!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) (5.00) vs Alexander's Archer (5.85)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Combat Odds: 23.1%
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (City Attack: -20%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (79/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (58/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (37/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (64/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (16/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 18 (46/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman) is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer has defeated Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Axeman)!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Your SpoonPillageAlpha has died trying to attack a Archer!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's Axeman (5.50) vs Alexander's Archer (2.96)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Combat Odds: 96.5%
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Plot Defense: +20%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Fortify: +25%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (City Defense: +70%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's Axeman is hit for 18 (82/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (25/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (4/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 21 (0/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's Axeman has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Your Axeman has destroyed a Archer!
Turn 155, 175 BC: You have captured Thebes!!!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Chariot) (4.40) vs Alexander's Archer (3.30)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Combat Odds: 73.6%
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Extra Combat: -10%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: (Extra Combat: +10%)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (54/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (31/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Chariot) is hit for 17 (83/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (8/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Chariot) is hit for 17 (66/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Alexander's Archer is hit for 23 (0/100HP)
Turn 155, 175 BC: Churchill's SpoonPillageAlpha (Chariot) has defeated Alexander's Archer!
Turn 155, 175 BC: Your SpoonPillageAlpha has destroyed a Archer!

 

[sunrise089]

Excellent play! We should probably exploit our breakthrough here when Construction comes in. Pillagers are fine, but we can knock Alex out if we keep up this momentum.

Sadly, comments that aren't colored by emotion continue to be unavailable until I get Warlords to actually load.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

Well, it looks like we're back in business. Seeing as the AI are allowed to trade tech, I think it would be better to eliminate them in series, rather than over-focus on pillaging. Thus Alex shall succumb to Jumbopult. A side order of pillaging for Hannibal and we should be laughing.

 

[Compromise]

I just looked at the game again. I hadn't noticed that Corinth (elephant city) has Judaism and already has 1cpt. No need for a monument there! And then we can keep Stonehenge when we get it so we'll never need to build a monument.

I agree with taking out the AIs one-at-a-time. We're going to start hitting war weariness soon, and it's per-civilization.

I'm not sure if the AI is smart enough to pillage that Iron before we come out of revolt. With elephants and cats, though, at least we're not counting on the iron.

After they finish the elephant camp, I think the workers there should both road toward iron and chop banana jungle in anticipation of a farm. Maybe road horses too.

London should grow just as ivory brings us another happy face. Then, we'll want to think about its tiles. I've had it mostly on growth and commerce, but with Construction, we'll probably want to start concentrating on production.

We also need to start thinking about what cities to keep. I'm leaning toward keeping Athens, Sparta, Carthage, and Timbuktu. Unless we run a specialist economy (for which we'll want Caste System), running more than that might just drag us down. It's an open question for me though.

Edit: Also, I've got a spear sitting on the elephant with the workers because it's vulnerable to chariot attack, and at least Alex and Hannibal have horses. Actually, I still don't see any evidence that Mansa has any strategic resources. (He did send 2 skirmishers and a settler off to the east. I pillaged instead of following him though.)

 

[LKendter]

I have to agree the game looks better with having iron and elephants.

Thebes must have been a barb city. I thought the names were mostly different then valid civ names.

Our big question is how many more cities to we want. We totally neglected economy and many more cities will have us to the point of self desctruct.

 

[Compromise]

I bet Hannibal was over there to take Thebes away from the barbarians himself.

I agree with Lee...we're going to need to deal with our economy before long. After we take out Alex, we could use plan to develop Thebes as a commerce city. It has lots of food and a gold (desert though) hill. Corinth too is probably best a commerce city in the long run, though we'll want production for a while in a city that close to our front.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

No, Thebes is the name of a Greek and an Egyptian city (historical as well as in CIV).

 

[Kodii]

In BtS, they changed the city name orders for almost all already existing civs, the biggest example being the Indian city names. Thebes was a new city name for the Greeks in BtS, and maybe the HoF mod updated the name list in Warlords?

Things are looking great! I didn't expect things to turn around so quickly. Great work!

 

[Compromise]

Things are looking great! I didn't expect things to turn around so quickly. Great work!

The RNG was reasonable this round. I think I won all battles that had >50% odds though I think I intentionally avoided attacking unless >70% except the first attacker on each conquered city (who died for the cause).

Other than that, I just followed the team plan!

One other thing I forgot to mention: Off the west coast, I saw both a Greek workboat and a Greek trireme (in that order) heading north. I don't expect either to be of any concern to us.

 

[TheArchduke]

Excellent play, the team has also checked in fully. Looks like we stick through which is great.

My turnset is up next and I plan to play today until something comes up. But I agree we should try not to keep too many enemy cities.

 

[Compromise]

I foresee another buildup and consolidation turnset for you, Archduke. I largely took what Kodii had prepared and just used it. We're extended a little thin at the moment, but I think we should be able to hold what we've got while we build up troops for the next push.

Remember that battles in our cultural borders won't incur war weariness for us.

I guess the big decision is how to proceed for tech. I see 3 basic options:

1) Metalcasting for forges (with Gold, that's an extra happy wherever we can get a forge built).

2) Fishing->Sailing: This would allow us to connect Athens without actually building roads to it. Fishing will be needed to work the nets at some point.

3) Myst->Meditation->Priesthood->Monarchy: This would solve all our happiness issues and permit us to build big, researching cities while we press for other techs. Note too that M-M-P are faster than Currency as prereqs for Code of Laws (Courthouses) and then onto Civil Service (Bureaucracy). But those are off the minimal beeline for Astronomy, which we might want to try.

You can always postpone the tech decision by setting research to 0% after Construction is in.

And check the builds in each city. I've been concentrating on axes because they'll be best against metal-possessing AIs, and our soon-to-come elephants will be better than spears against chariots and horse archers.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

I think we should snag Mysticism for our happy monuments, then go for Fishing-Sailing, then back to the Monarchy path. Forges cost too many for our current city sizes, so we might as well leave it for a while (and let the AI learn it to make it cheaper).

 

[Compromise]

If we capture Stonehenge (in Sparta), won't we get all of our monuments for free? Or do we have to know Mysticism to get them?

 

[Compromise]

Server lag => double post

 

[TheArchduke]

I tend to agree with the Myst-Monarchy route. I will buildup our forces and infrastructure so the next one up can do our attack.

 

[Swiss Pauli]

If we capture Stonehenge (in Sparta), won't we get all of our monuments for free? Or do we have to know Mysticism to get them?

We need Myst anyway for the Monarchy path, so whilst I don't lnow the answer, I don't think that it's important from a research perspective. From a production perspective, we probably don't want to build any monuments unless we start getting and there's some time to go before we can take Sparta.

 

[Compromise]

I agree with prioritizing Monarchy, though I do think that when Athens comes out of resistance, we'll want to have Fishing.

I think we probably want to take Sparta first, right?

 

[TheArchduke]

175 BC

Ah well, let´s hope I don´t screw this up.

160 BC

Our axe defends our new city against an Axe, but Hannibal decides to go easy with the chariot and catches our reinforcing Axe northwest of Thebes. Near Corinth, an axe beats a barbarian archer. I let our spear attack at high odds and win but I promote the 2 other units so Corinth is a little bit safer.

130 BC

The second chariot dies to our spearman and Thebes pops its first ring coming out of revolt, the iron must now be connected to our core.

115 BC

A quiet turn.

85 BC

Another quiet turn, the road to Thebes is being built.

75 BC

An archer shows up near Thebes and a GP is born in Sparta, please settle him for us.

55 BC

Our axe sorties out of Thebes successfully to prevent a pillage of our iron.

40 BC

Our first catapult is built.

25 BC

Our first Elephant is built.

10 BC

Meditation is discovered, Priesthood next.

5 AD

My turn ends. At 88 % odds I defeat a Numidian Cavalry with the Elephant spearman. Not good imo, but we got Elephants JUST in time. Intel on Athens reports 5! workers and 3 archers, so I suggest a hit when we can amass 2 catapults and one Elephant.

Apart from that try to hook Thebes up and get the wheat worked and it might actually become a good production city.

I whipped nothing in my turn, so we could go with some whipes to reinforce our army with the latest material and go hit Greece.


In any case I think we are on a good track. The bad attack may have hurt us, but the last turnset made us come back. We are not beat yet. No screenies apologies and please watch out for Numidian Cavalries.

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