SGOTM 07 - The Real Ms. Beyond

[sooooo]

OK, it seems the clear strategy is to get a permenant alliance with Asoka. This needs two things: getting him to friendly and getting a defensive pact. Friendly may occur on its own, but is much more likely if we both get into universal suffrage (democracy). A defensive pact is gotten quickest from military tradition. Both techs require nationalism, so that should be our next target after education.

I begin by doing two of chmoosi's trades:

Elizabeth: get drama and 40gp for paper
Washington: get theology for paper and 30gp
And also get music instead of engineering from JC for philo.

But oh no, divine right is now in the way! I start research on nationalism, hoping to trade divine right and then bulb the tech.

Also I open borders with washington and beg 40 golf from HC. I made a slight mistake in cancelling our clams for dyes deal with HC, intending to gift them to asoka for an extra 1-2 diplo points. But Asoka already has clams and HC won't redo the trade - d'oh!

350 AD: Meet Saladin. Build university, sack all but 1 scientists for production. Research into Nationalism.

375 AD: Meet Mansa Musa. Marble quarry done, workers road stone and deer.

400 AD: Louis finishes Hagia Sophia. Saladin adopts mercantilism. Gift Asoka marble.

425 AD:

450 AD: MM to finish uni in 1 turn.

475 AD: Catherine discovers liberalism. Begin Oxford.

500 AD: I pass the turnset over here because it's a round number and there are so many trade options that I don't want to go any further without the team having a look. Divine right is not available to trade yet.

 

[Jabah]

Since SwissPauli had written that he was away for 3 weeks, I guess Chmoosi is up (If he is not away already)

We should have a look at all the trade options Soooo noticed (posssibly post a SS of the tech situation for those who have trouble have both net access and civ running at the same time).

Discuss a bit and keep going.

 

[Kodii]

Sorry for being so away from this game, but I think we should get moving again. I'll take a look at the save tomorrow and offer my suggestions in regards to trading.

Looks like a good set of turns, sooooo!

 

[chmoosi]

Yeah! I could still play one turnset before I leave. I will offer more in depth insight later but one thing I noticed that the stone isn't quarried (it's mined) so we lost turns with the Oxford :/ and there isn't much point in quarrying it anymore I think.

 

[Kodii]

Heres the save for anyone who doesn't want to go to the Progress page:

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG007_AD0500_01.Civ4SavedGame

 

[Kodii]

Notes:

- WOW... some of the AIs are "MASSIVE" (Saladin, Cyrus, Cathy)
- Cyrus already has MilTrad (can offer DP)
- The tech trades we want to make depend on whether or not we want to trade Education away for Guilds. We can pick up Engineering from one of the more backward AIs
- Alex is WHEOOH
- Catherine can be bribed into declaring war on... anyone

There's actually not much else to say... unless you have any questions, chmoosi, I think you might be good to go!

 

[chmoosi]

Ok had a fairly uneventful&smooth turnset. Traded guilds for education with washington and engineering from kublai khan for philo&paper. Also made some $$$ trades with the backward civs and upgraded troops. Oxford finished. I also produced one workboat and one maceman. Gifted silver to asoka. Traded surplus crabs for incence with Cyrus when he asked. Malabar is now pushing health&happy caps but we should grow fast as we can build a workboat&unit next and get them up (maybe disband the caravel or bring it back as there is nothing to explore anymore I guess..) Also we got spread confu so confu temple maybe. GS was born a couple of turns ago and now he's just hanging out, but nationalism seemed so close I decided to stop here. Techwise we could now trade banking&gunpowder. Cathy can also trade astro but I don't think that's a possibility even with more gold.

 

[chmoosi]

Double post...

 

[chmoosi]

Turn log...

Spoiler :

Turn 135, 500 AD: You have discovered Guilds!
Turn 135, 500 AD: You have discovered Engineering!
Turn 135, 500 AD: Amir Khusro has been born in Berlin!
Turn 135, 500 AD: Bi Sheng has been born in Persepolis!

Turn 136, 520 AD: Carl Friedrich Gauss has been born in London!
Turn 136, 520 AD: Cyrus's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 136, 520 AD: Cyrus has completed The Taj Mahal!

Turn 138, 560 AD: Sinan has been born in Paris!

Turn 140, 600 AD: Malabar Front celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!

Turn 141, 620 AD: Malabar Front celebrates "We Love the Monarch Day"!!!
Turn 141, 620 AD: Abu Bakr has been born in Moscow!

Turn 142, 640 AD: Michael Faraday has been born in Malabar Front!
Turn 142, 640 AD: Saladin has completed Versailles!
Turn 142, 640 AD: Catherine's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 142, 640 AD: Huayna Capac has declared war on Alexander!

Turn 143, 660 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Malabar Front. Work has now begun on a Maceman.
Turn 143, 660 AD: Asoka adopts Free Religion!
Turn 143, 660 AD: Kublai Khan adopts Bureaucracy!

Turn 144, 680 AD: Pytheas has been born in Rome!
Turn 144, 680 AD: Confucianism has spread in Malabar Front.
Turn 144, 680 AD: Cyrus's Golden Age has ended...
Turn 144, 680 AD: Alexander adopts Bureaucracy!

Turn 145, 700 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Catherine
Turn 145, 700 AD: Cyrus has 5 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 145, 700 AD: Malabar Front will grow to size 11 on the next turn
Turn 145, 700 AD: Malabar Front will become unhappy on the next turn
Turn 145, 700 AD: Shankara has been born in Mecca!

Turn 146, 720 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Washington
Turn 146, 720 AD: Catherine has 100 gold available for trade
Turn 146, 720 AD: You have discovered Nationalism!
Turn 146, 720 AD: Malabar Front has grown to size 11

Turn 147, 740 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Tokugawa
Turn 147, 740 AD: Saladin has 100 gold available for trade

http://gotm.civfanatics.net/saves/civ4sgotm7/The_Real_Ms_Beyond_SG007_AD0740_01.Civ4SavedGame

So I'm leaving on wednesday (interrail) and will be back sometime in august I might check in randomly and offer advice but I definately won't be able to play. So good luck with the rest of the game I guess.

 

[Jabah]

Seems to be a good round (and especially without nasty surprise for a change ).
What will the GS and GA bulbs right now ?

edit from the spoiler:
Turn 142, 640 AD: Huayna Capac has declared war on Alexander!

that is quite interesting . What should our reaction be if one of them asks for help....

 

[Kodii]

So it seems like the first post roster is finally correct

Playing Roster:
ruff_hi
sooooo
Swiss Pauli [OOP]
chmoosi
Compromise [OOP]
Jabah [UP]
Kodii [on deck]

 

[Kodii]

The GA will bulb part of Divine Right, GS part of PP. At this point, I would go for settling the GS and bombing the GA. We'll probably get our furs back.

As for trades, we can probably trade Nationalism to Cathy and Washy to get Banking and Gunpowder, or we can just hold off to get those free from the PA.

And I'm not quite sure what to do if asked to join the war between HC and Alex. I'd be inclined to help HC more than Alex, but neither would probably be the way to go.

 

[chmoosi]

Yeah I've been thinking of the GA-bomb too because of the furs. But can't he research Military Tradition also? If not then bomb definately. Also settle GS sounds ok to me..

 

[Kodii]

He can, but only after we get a whole schwack of techs, so its not worth it.

 

[Jabah]

If I am up, I will have a good look at it tonight (can't open the save before), post a rough plan for the turn set to be discuss and play tomorrow (except if you all want me to play quickly tonight).

GA, is bombing much better than settling (settling will give us the 3gpt that will help us as we are losing money, covering our costs, buying techs or ressources). How close are we to get 'our' furs back.

GS, do we think settling will be better than bulbing considering we are hoping to have a PA relatively soon ? (plus we might be able to trade PP, or we are not interested at all by PP right now)

I will try to grow more and faster (within health limit), building aqueduct then monastries (for more science) or theater then Globe.

I would accept helping Capac as Alex is in a wrong religion but hope he won't ask (but definitly will refuse to help Alex).

 

[chmoosi]

monasteries are not that useful anymore as we'll have Scientific method soon...

 

[Jabah]

Aqueduct, theater, Globe (and possibly wall+casttle to improve our 'power' and 'defense', but need stone quarried first anyway).

I am more in favor of settling the GA, as we will be in representation one day soon (won't we?), so we will have money+research, instead of a one-shot culture bonus that could also be not enough to get the furs back (and happiness soon won't be a problem anyway).

Otherwise (and need to check research time, to see if it is not a long delay), what about researching after bulbing the GA for Divine Right to use it as a trade material with Nationalism to get Astro from Cathy ? (since none of them are a strict monopoly, and we are offering quite a lot more in breakers value, it could be ok)

 

[Kodii]

I think I'd rather take the chance that we'd get our furs back than take the chance that Cathy would trade Astro for DR and Nationalism. So we should probably settle.

 

[ruff_hi]

I, too, prefer the settle option.

 

[Jabah]

A few more random thought after checking the save.

Research
DivRight is 7t (1716). Using GA (1022) it could be just 3t, we still don't want to take the risk for Astro with Cathy ?

For possible trades:
GW : Nationalism for either HBR+Bank or Gunpowder (no money)
Cyrus : Education for bank+hbr+90g (all)
Mansa : Education for 120g (all) or Nationalism for bank+HBR+120g
Cathy : Nationalism for either HBR+Bank+100g or Gunpowder+100g (all). NO to Astro for all we have.
Capac : Nationalism for HBR+Bank+130g (all)

I would take the DivRigth risk. then trade after (to avoid reaching a wfyabta level) bank (+hbr?) for Edu to Cyrus, and Gun for Natio to GW.
If not taking the DR risk, I would just do the Cyrus trade and wait.

Buildings
We still need 2WB (Clam+Whale)
Could build HE (no urgent), Hermitage (culture)

Same question for the GS, do we want to settle it more than having PP (not first).
If PP is on the way to Permanent Alliance (I doubt it), I would bulb, otherwise settle is OK.

BtW, what is the fastest way to PA, once we have MT (for Def Pact).

I will play (after some answer) up to MT (in +/- 7t, probably more since I intended to grow as fast as possible even if it means less scientists for a while).

We then will have to chose who we want to PA.
The problem with the AIs on our landmass is that they are small (2 cities max), so we will need to help them conquering a few cities (on the other hand it could be possible) while Saladin is HUGE (but will never PA since he will be first for a long time), and Cathy is not small either...