I still say settle both the GA and the GS. Divine Right doesn't get much trading power and I still really doubt that we'd get Astronomy for it and Nationalism. We don't want to waste a GA on a tech that we won't need. Same goes for the GS.
As for a PA partner, I would still go for Asoka, because he is the highest in score of the AIs who don't have more than 2 cities and one of the most advanced. He is also nearby and we'll be more capable of helping him expand than if he were far away.
@Kodi : fair enough, the risks are probably too high.
Will play tonight (either after or while watching a possibly boring Germany-Turkey football game).
Plan
- Settle both GA and GS
- Trade Education for Bank to Cyrus (leaving HBR to avoid wfyabta).
- Don't trade Nationalism until we can have several techs from different AIs (for example gunpowder, Economy, Liberalism...)
- Grow as fast as possible while happy and healthy (probably up to size+3), then rehire scientists or work high production tiles.
- build WB x2 (clam, whale to cheaply increase happy+health)
- build theater
Stop when MT is discovered.
PS - regarding the caravel, we should NOT disband it, it could still explore a bit to get money from maps, but should in the end go back home to 'defend' our nets (after upgrading) should the situation need it...
Wrong. We NEED Printing Press, but if we can trade for Gunpowder, we can get Sci. Meth through Chemistry rather than Astronomy, so SETTLE the GA, but depending on how many beakers we can get from the GS, we may want to bulb part of it. Plus, it'll add good trading value for later.
OR hand research PP and use the GS on Chemistry?
EDIT: We also NEED Liberalism for Communism, so we should have chased it more actively, but its too late for that. We may be able to trade for it later though.
Start by buying/selling Maps (for almost no gain in the end).
Then decide to get as much money to test Cathy for Astro
Cyrus : Education for banking + 120g (not taking HBR for wfyabta)
Capac (friendly) accept to give his 130g
Sell Education to Mansa for 120g (he didn't even want to add HBR)
Same with Saladin for 100g
Louis (friendly) accepts to give his 40g
Still no chance with 656g+Nationalism to get Astro from Cathy
GS will bulb 1533 of PP compare to 18bpt (6/200%, that should become 9/250% soon), not completely convince but bulb PP and decide to finish it fast (3t) first to be able to trade it.
T1 - 760AD
WB->WB
T2 - 780AD
WB->Theater
Caesar declares on Khan
Cancel OB with Caesar to avoid any minor demand. (Khan has our religion and is pleased '+9' but Caesar is much more advanced, so I hope to avoid have to choose)
Cathy has Nationalism now therefore I trade Nationalism for Gunpowder to GW while it is still there.
Clam and Whale connected increasing our happy by 1 and health by 2.
T3 - 800AD
PP-> MT
Cyrus already has MT and would accept a DF !!
T4 - 820AD
Theater > Aqueduct
(size13 now)
T5 - 840AD
We re-lost the control of the SSE empty grassland to GW (50%) just when I was about to farm it.
T6 - 860AD
Khan wants us to suicide against Rome, despite being at +9 with him I refuse (-2), he is still pleased.
T7 - 880AD
Louis declares on Alex, neither of them have Astro, so it won't be of any help to Capac (who has probably brided Louis)
T8 - 900AD
(size15)
Happy limit re-hire lots of scientists (between 5-7 to get a GPP faster).
We REACH friendly with Capac, he is still a bit greedy and need to give him Gunpowder+Nationalism to get Economics (which I DO).
No revolution yet (wait for a double one?), costing us a trade route (ie around 8gpt).
T9 - 920AD
Aqueduct-> Globe Theater (very slowly).
Khan & Cyrus have Astro tradable.
Can't with Cyrus (PP+Eco+650g is not enough)
Get it from Khan for Guild+Educ
Trade DONE
Mansa is annoyed with us for that (-4 for trade), but lots of peaople are annoyed at Mansa, so no big deal.
We get also a -1 with Julius but he is still Cautious (and busy warring anyway).
Open Border with Cathy (for trade) since she is not too badly seen (except by Isa), the trade road to Moscou is not more than the best local one (8gpt).
Renogociate with Cyrus Dye instead of Incense for our crabs (extra happy)
Change production to Observatory
T10 - 940AD
Alex at war with 2AI and pleased with us, asks for nationalism for free -> refuse.
2 AIs (including Toku) are spontaneously proposing me HBR for something (not interested anyway).
T11 - 960AD
Capac (friendly +15/-3) wants PP for free and get it (+18/-3).
We finally get our GPP, who is a .... GS, yeah (85%)!
Fire all Scientist to grow to s16 (now possible) and finish Observatory faster.
Alex & Capac are now at peace.
GS will bulb Scientific Method which we want next (since we have astro).
T12 - 980AD
Saladin has enough (Mansa is his worst ennemy at -3, but we might not be far cautious with +1)
T13 - 1000AD
MT -> SciMeth
Nothing moved
1st Problem Saladin has enough on his hands (thks he is far away and we are not 1st on the list of his ennemy, but not too far)
2nd problem Asoka doesn't like us enough for a MP !!
Only Cyrus, Capac & Toku (!) will accept a MP...
No trade possible (except HBR and DR)
Also, the cravel is in our water blocking our inside sea, afaik the AI will consider that it is blocking his 'invasion' ships (escorts should not attack) and at best they would not find any way to reach us and at worst they would land far away giving us time to react
Here is your Session Turn Log from 740 AD to 1000 AD:
Turn 147, 740 AD: You have discovered Banking!
Turn 147, 740 AD: Wilhelm Schickard has been born in Susa!
Turn 148, 760 AD: Kobo-Daishi has been born in Washington!
Turn 148, 760 AD: Julius Caesar has declared war on Kublai Khan!
Turn 148, 760 AD: Blaise Pascal has been born in Tiwanaku!
Turn 149, 780 AD: You have discovered Gunpowder!
Turn 149, 780 AD: You have discovered Printing Press!
Turn 149, 780 AD: Catherine's Golden Age has ended...
Turn 149, 780 AD: Isabella adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 152, 840 AD: St. Thomas Aquinas has been born in Tenochtitlan!
Turn 152, 840 AD: Charles Augustin de Coulomb has been born in Karakorum!
Turn 152, 840 AD: James Clerk Maxwell has been born in Kyoto!
Turn 153, 860 AD: Catherine adopts Free Market!
Turn 153, 860 AD: Louis XIV has declared war on Alexander!
Turn 154, 880 AD: Asoka adopts Representation!
Turn 154, 880 AD: Michaelangelo has been born in York!
Turn 154, 880 AD: Cyrus adopts Representation!
Turn 155, 900 AD: You have discovered Economics!
Turn 155, 900 AD: Elizabeth adopts Free Market!
Turn 155, 900 AD: Mohammed Shah has been born in Madrid!
Turn 156, 920 AD: You have discovered Astronomy!
Turn 157, 940 AD: Louis Pasteur has been born in Malabar Front!
Turn 157, 940 AD: Washington adopts Free Market!
Turn 157, 940 AD: Julius Caesar adopts Mercantilism!
Turn 157, 940 AD: Jeanne d'Arc has been born in Timbuktu!
Turn 157, 940 AD: Raphael has been born in Mecca!
Turn 157, 940 AD: Louis XIV adopts Bureaucracy!
Turn 157, 940 AD: Louis XIV adopts Theocracy!
Turn 157, 940 AD: Alexander has made peace with Huayna Capac!
Turn 158, 960 AD: Frederick adopts Free Market!
Turn 158, 960 AD: Mansa Musa's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 158, 960 AD: Mansa Musa adopts Free Market!
Turn 158, 960 AD: Saladin's Golden Age has begun!!!
Turn 158, 960 AD: James Watt has been born in Paris!
Turn 159, 980 AD: You have discovered Military Tradition!
Turn 159, 980 AD: Cyrus converts to Christianity!
Turn 159, 980 AD: Saladin adopts Free Market!
Turn 159, 980 AD: Huayna Capac adopts Free Market!
A quick role call to see who's all still here. We need to get moving again even with a shortage of players. If we know who's all here, we won't have to wait for opinions that won't come.
Kodii - do you want to put together a plan for the next step and we'll review? Try and set a short term goal (for stopping) but also consider the long term goal (death to Washington!)
Liberalism --> SciMeth (bulb) --> Communism (in order to keep the benefits of the Great Library a bit longer)
DPs: Asoka is now in Free Religion. We can get him to convert to Pacifism for 140G, which I would like to take to see whether he'd agree on a DP once we get the shared religion bonus (NOTE: Does the shared religion bonus start at +1 again? Or does it automatically become what it previously was?). I would prefer not to sign with Cyrus or HC because of the negative modifiers that may be incurred with Asoka.
Builds: Observatory --> GT (NOTE: Does the 10% bonus from monasteries remain after SciMeth? I was under the impression that it does, except that you cannot build any more monasteries after SciMeth. If so, I would complete the two monasteries immediately)
Are we looking to use our forests for something later on? If not, we could maybe use a couple on the GT.
My turn would end after Liberalism+SciMeth. HOWEVER... if we are still looking to Asoka to PA with, it may be more profitable to tech towards Democracy (Universal Suffrage) by trading Military Tradition to Cathy for Constitution.
Make him convert out of Free Religion (Plausible, Possible)
Tech to Democracy, trade to Asoka, convert to Universal Suffrage (Somewhat Plausible, Possible)
Gift Stone (Plausible, Possible)
IIRC, monasteries lose all value (sans build missionaries) after ScMethod. Thus not much point in building them this close to ScMthd. The shared religion bonus reverts to its old value immediate (again, IIRC) but he could swap away after 10 turns ... so, get the DP while it is on offer. I would chop any forest in our inner ring for denial of forest defense to any possible attackers.
I like the idea of spending the 140g to try for the DP. Which tech gives the quickest PA ... we should head that way.
Well, I'm just worried that even when we get Communism for PA, we won't even be able to sign one with anyone because:
a) The AI isn't Friendly
b) We were unsuccessful at signing the DP
c) The 40 turns have not yet completed
I'm no good at searching for these things, but can someone look up whether Asoka will sign a DP while Pleased (if thats in the code anywhere), because if not, we're going to have to prioritize Friendly before getting Communism.
There didn't seem to be much choice in what to do, so I've gone ahead and played some turns.
I decided that signing the DP with Asoka was a priority over getting Communism because what was the use of Communism if we didn't have a PA to sign?
I began by trading Military Tradition and 650G to Catherine for Constitution and set research to Democracy. If we could get the Civic bonus with Asoka, that could go a long way.
We received many AI requests over the turns and I only accepted Open Borders with Cyrus. I declined: Alex's demand to war against France, OB with Kublai, a DP with Cyrus, Printing Press to Mansa, OB with Alex and a DP with HC.
Meanwhile, our capital pumped out National Wonders and is now subsequently working all tiles except one. We should also hopefully shortly regain our tiles from New York.
Malabar swapped to military production, but before any troops were trained, a glorious turn occurred:
Here is your Session Turn Log from 1000 AD to 1110 AD:
Turn 160, 1000 AD: You have discovered Constitution!
Turn 161, 1010 AD: Ernest Rutherford has been born in Moscow!
Turn 162, 1020 AD: Marie Curie has been born in Moscow!
Turn 163, 1030 AD: Isambard Kingdom Brunel has been born in Bombay!
Turn 165, 1050 AD: Mansa Musa's Golden Age has ended...
Turn 165, 1050 AD: Saladin's Golden Age has ended...
Turn 168, 1080 AD: Louis XIV has 180 gold available for trade
Turn 169, 1090 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Cyrus
Turn 169, 1090 AD: Saladin has 100 gold available for trade
Turn 169, 1090 AD: Kublai Khan adopts Free Market!
Turn 170, 1100 AD: New Tech(s) to trade: Mansa Musa
Turn 170, 1100 AD: Cyrus has 6 gold per turn available for trade
Turn 170, 1100 AD: William Shakespeare has been born in Persepolis!
Turn 170, 1100 AD: Saladin adopts Representation!
Turn 170, 1100 AD: Saladin adopts Emancipation!
We can finished Democracy in 3. Asoka already has it. I would complete it and use it to trade. Asoka's unwillingness to trade it leads me to believe he is building the Statue of Liberty, so perhaps we shouldn't trade the technology away just yet.
Following that, I would use the GS to bulb as much of SciMeth as we can, complete it and go on to Communism.
Saladin is still WHEOOH.
I would suggest a large-scale civic change following Democracy and Liberalism to Universal Suffrage, Emancipation, Free Market and Free Religion.
We could probably continue on without much discussion. In fact, I was ready to keep going, but felt it appropriate to pause.
EDIT: Under map inspection, we have appeared to have lost our Silver to Washington (not that it matters anymore), and the tile 1S of Washington appears "neutral"... perhaps it is under Indian revolt?
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