SGOTM 09 - Smurkz

[Niklas]

>>The Save<<

Turn 11/330 (3340 BC) [04-Apr-2009 20:37:05]
Scout promoted: Woodsman I
Niklas: Woodie 1 to our scout
Niklas: Go for another worker then

Turn 12/330 (3280 BC) [04-Apr-2009 20:38:21]

Turn 13/330 (3220 BC) [04-Apr-2009 20:38:49]
Niklas: A panther means I can't go SE, if I had wanted
Tech learned: Animal Husbandry
Smurkzaki's borders expand

Turn 14/330 (3160 BC) [04-Apr-2009 20:39:42]
Research begun: Writing (10 Turns)
Niklas: It is confirmed, we have barbarian company
A Farm was built near Smurkzaki

Spoiler Pirates! :

Spoiler South :

 

[Backwards Logic]

Alright, and here's the new updated test save, with the barb city and updated landmass. One difference in this test save versus the real thing, but it isn't major. On turn 12 Hinduism was founded in a distant land (Celts for those curious) and in the real game it hasn't happened yet. Once we discover who has both Hinduism and Buddhism I'll update the test save accordingly.

 

[Niklas]

I played the testgame (the previous one) somewhat sloppily up to turn 50, 1000 BC. That's the turn I completed Maths, built Oracle for CS, and bulbed Philo. I was 10 beakers and 4 hammers from completing Maths and Oracle on turn 49, so some spreadsheeting is probably in order to see if that's possible. The beakers might be at least, since I ran one turn at 0% but had money left over on turn 50.

I have settled the second city 1N of the Cows, and it has founded both Confu and Tao. Confu has been spread in the capital, and I am ready to revolt to Bur+Caste+Pac, which only takes one turn for all three (though we'd need a second revolt to Confu right after to get the Pac bonus).

Some comments:

I'm not sure what Renata saw, but for me there's nothing funny going on with the workers helping. I didn't need to cancel any workers manually, it all worked as expected. I used Renata's worker plan (I think) while applicable.

The tile 2E of the capital should be a hill, the testgame has it as a flat grass forest.

To bulb Philo I had to trade for The Wheel, otherwise I refrained from trading at all (since I have an ugly feeling we won't meet anyone to trade with). If we can't find someone to trade us The Wheel, doing so would take one turn before we could bulb Philo and revolt all on turn 51.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I built research for (I think) two turns while teching for PH. I need to add that option to the sheet.

Trading for The Wheel earlier would help a lot with regards to worker turns.

 

[Renata]

Sounds nice. I'm also getting the "no one to trade with" vibe. Doing wheel ourselves would only add about two turns to the total IIRC, so not that horrible.

 

[Niklas]

Oh, one more thing, which BL reminded me of. We finished AH, and I didn't even react to the fact that no horses appeared - anywhere.

 

[Renata]

Ah. Erm. What was our deadline for crossbows again?

 

[Niklas]

I uploaded a new version of the blank sheet, same url (link in Xcal's summary post). This one hopefully implements building research correctly. I'm too tired to actually test it tonight though.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Interesting note playing the test save - the mountain touches both rivers and creates a trade route between the two cities.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

I played the test save and Oracle was biafal on turn 50, the same turn I would have completed it.

 

[Xcalibrator]

Bummer about the horses, but at least it's an interesting map ! That lake in the south looks nice--will provide a good amount of extra food with a lighthouse in a city on the seacoast. Can hardly wait to send a boat down there to see more, but I'll guess we'll have to--sending the scout to the west was the right thing.

[Edit: Regarding Niklas's mention in post 203 of switching to Pacificism--keep in mind (as Renata and/or Niklas pointed out early on) that with SciMeth obsoleting monasteries, our only way to build missionaries is with Organized Religion. Pacifism, of course, only provides its benefits to cities that have the state religion so we'll need to rely on spontaneous spread, spend some time in OrgRel, or have to live with only 2 cities (get a free missionary with later religions) following The Faith.]

 

[ChrisShaffer]

re: workers, Renata was trying to figure out a way to save worker moves by not doubling up to build the forest preserves. It won't work - we have to double up to build at least two forest preserves to keep the capital happy until it can work on a settler.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

We are on turn 14. Misfits are on turn 48, XTeam 45, others fall in at 38, 25, 22... grin.

Is this still correct, or is Niklas done which means Methos is up?


Niklas: playing
Methos: on deck
Xcalibrator
r_rolo1
Renata
ChrisShaffer
Backwards Logic
CommandoBob
unkle

 

[unkle]

No horses means we'll get metal there (optimism at its best).

Somehow concerned about our lack of defense: if we cannot trade mining/BW, we will need it by ourselves soon. Or Archery...

 

[Niklas]

Interesting point about the trade over that mountain. Wow, must be some passes there eh? It's good to know though, that means we'll definitely have trade up as soon as we can settle our second city.

On workers, I too have tried a number of different scenarios to try to avoid doubling workers. But every time I end up with something that costs a lot more than what I consider those worker turns to be worth.

On Oracle, we should remember that we have a religious maniac in the test games (Izzy). If Oracle goes on turn 50 in the real game, not much we could have done about it.

On Pacifism, I agree with Xcal that we will likely have to run OR at some point to get some missionaries out. But we won't have access to OR by the time we want to switch to Bur and Caste, and Pac comes "for free" then. And it's surely better than Paganism.

On defense - we will have metals (assuming we have any) around turn 55, worst case. That's if we can't find anyone to trade with. We won't see any x-bows before that, so I would be strongly against delaying our slingshot in order to get some better defenses before that. We have to play the risks here, the competition is deadly.

I consider myself done, so Methos is up. He's away caving this weekend though, so he won't play before Monday I'm sure.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Methos: playing
Xcalibrator: on deck
r_rolo1
Renata
ChrisShaffer
Backwards Logic
CommandoBob
unkle
Niklas

 

[Methos]

Here's my 'got it'.

 

[unkle]

It is quite clear that to get the slingshot, we need to sacrifice something, and that something is defense here. It might be the case though that we will want our scout back to at least be warned that barbs are up... Let's remember also our scout is Woodie, meaning he should hide in the forests as much as possible.

By the way, is it common to get barb cities so early ? I must say I cannot remember getting one so quickly (not to mention full BFC...).

 

[Niklas]

No, barb cities cannot appear this early. There is no way that that barb city wasn't placed there by Gyathaar.

 

[unkle]

I guess I should have taken the work "Free units" litterally then...

As he mentionned this

Just to make the barbarian setting a bit clearer:

The barbarians has as earlier stated not been given any extra starting techs (beyond what the game automatically give them).. in fact it is impossible to give them any extra techs since the starting saves are made from a worldbuilder save, and barbarian tech settings doesn't exist in this file..

They have also not been given any free starting units. (But don't let this lull you into a false safety)

Since raging barbarians are NOT turned on, that doesn't leave many options for how I made the barbarians more wicked than normal... most teams seems to have guessed or learned parts of this this was done already.

I thought it meant no barb city too. Guess it was obvious to anyone but me then

 

[r_rolo1]

No, barb cities cannot appear this early. There is no way that that barb city wasn't placed there by Gyathaar.

And it is probably worth getting..... last time I saw a map maker putting a barb city in a game from the beginning, he putted all the world wonders in it Not that Gyathaar would be so generous, but I would not be surprised to see barb cities with early wonders inside, just to mess with our plans