SGOTM 09 - Xteam

[PaulisKhan]

Played through to turn 50, everything is going as planned.

Spoiler :

Decision time; where to settle

-edit- If you're asking why I moved the warrior NW back to land we'd already explored, I didn't want to face any more unexpected surprises so I took the safe option of fogbusting before moving the settler in, even if it does have a phalanx escort. There are axes roaming aruond now.

Speaking of which....

unpromoted barb axe approaching from the south

You can see I've moved the Delphi phalanx back east 1 square in order to respond better to any unexpected surprises.

In the next turn our capital grows 1 pop, the happy cap increases by 1 and the watermill is completed ready to be worked, so I feel like I did that bit right.
Pyreaus is building a worker while whip unhappy wears off, that worker will preserve the other forest so we can grow pyreaus so that it can work all of its good tiles and still support two scientists.

Question: Should I switch Delphi from granary to Phalanx?

NOTE TO SELF: Delphi windmill completed this turn, switch worked tile to the windmill.

This seems like a good place to pause, decide on where to settle the western city while I sleep =)
Don't miss the clams.

Oh yeah, scout died =(

 

[Frederiksberg]

Agree with Leif that the forested hill the warrior is standing on is a nice site. We could settle there immediately, or settle at the site to grab copper and cows and settle another city on the hill a little later. Settling 1 east of the copper seems to give a pretty mediocre city. 2 cities seems better to me.

I agree that the (warrior) grassland hill is the best site, but I don't like to put the 5th city at the cow site since it's even worse than the site 1E of copper. In that case I prefer to put the 5th city at site "B" in leifs latest dot map (The place with 3 wines, corn and cow in the FC). With Monarcy as next tech the timing seems right for settling there.

There is one problem with the warrior hill site. We can't defend the fishing nets and there are likely barb galleys in the western ocean. The air ship may tell us more about this.

 

[leif erikson]

Things look good!

Question: Should I switch Delphi from granary to Phalanx?

I think it would be wise.

Oh yeah, scout died =(

SCT proposes placing two cities near that copper? Produced another map, just of that area, in case we wish to discuss in further detail.

I'm not too keen on putting two cities over there. In addition, don't remember whether random events are on or off, but having a city with all those mountains around is sure to bring a volcano at some point, destroying buildings in the city and improvements around the city.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Question: Should I switch Delphi from granary to Phalanx?

There is another option: Athens will grow next turn and if microed for hammers (work plains forest and then watermill) we can build a phalanx there in one turn after the airship is done. Since the barb spear is wounded it will probably stay put for a couple of turns and the phalanx fro Athens have time to come and defend 4 turns from now. That makes it possible to focus on infrastructure in Delphi i.e. next turn we whip a granary and the start on library. If the spear does move against Delphi immediately we will, of course have to reconsider.

I'm not too keen on putting two cities over there. In addition, don't remember whether random events are on or off, but having a city with all those mountains around is sure to bring a volcano at some point, destroying buildings in the city and improvements around the city.

Random events are off. Don't like two cities over there either so maybe we should give up making an airtight blockade?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Disagree with my teammates a bit here. Don't think the forested hill site is superior right now, since we can't utilize the clams. Prefer to settle 1W of settler immediately and settle forested hill when barb galleys are no longer a threat.

Don't think we need to start phalanx in Delphi this turn. We can whip phalanx in two turns there if needed, but it is problematic that it will be needed soon. The barb spearman will likely stop to heal, and then he may either proceed west or be attacked by a Bab unit. Also, the barb axe may not move north towards Athens (don't want to allow him onto windmilled hill, so get phalanx there one turn ahead if needed). Like Fred's idea of building a phalanx in Athens after airship.

Worker SE of Delphi to forest SW of city to start road toward fourth city?

 

[Frederiksberg]

Disagree with my teammates a bit here. Don't think the forested hill site is superior right now, since we can't utilize the clams. Prefer to settle 1W of settler immediately and settle forested hill when barb galleys are no longer a threat.

The place 1W of settler is terrible with virtually no food. City will stagnate at size 4. The warrior hill is better even without working the clam and can easily reach size 7 just working windmills and watermills.

 

[leif erikson]

Disagree with my teammates a bit here. Don't think the forested hill site is superior right now, since we can't utilize the clams. Prefer to settle 1W of settler immediately and settle forested hill when barb galleys are no longer a threat.

The place 1W of settler is terrible with virtually no food. City will stagnate at size 4. The warrior hill is better even without working the clam and can easily reach size 7 just working windmills and watermills.

I think I asked this before, and pardon my denseness, but what is the purpose of this city? That would help me to make a recommendation.

Worker SE of Delphi to forest SW of city to start road toward fourth city?

Yes. Is that the one that encompasses all the Wine tiles?

 

[Cactus Pete]

The place 1W of settler is terrible with virtually no food. City will stagnate at size 4. Seems a bit of an exaggeration -- can work cows, copper, hill/windmill, plus several farmed riverine plains tiles. It's not a bad production city with multiple forests to chop, keeps Ham from the copper, and slows his migration eastward. We could wait until the airship reveals whether or not the copper is vital to the Babylonians.The warrior hill is better even without working the clam and can easily reach size 7 just working windmills and watermills.

Without clams, the warrior hill is only a bit better. It lacks food as well, though more windmill sites. If the grassland is farmed to gain food, then watermills are limited to riverine plains. Also doesn't block Ham as effectively.

 

[Cactus Pete]

I think I asked this before, and pardon my denseness, but what is the purpose of this city? That would help me to make a recommendation. If we settle one west of settler, then we just have a moderately good many-purpose city. It will produce decent hammers and a little commerce, help control rival development (blocking copper and migration), and put us in better position to eventually attack Ham. It also is not that far from home and therefore doesn't have too much maintenance nor should it be too hard to defend.


Yes. Is that the one that encompasses all the Wine tiles?

I like the site that gets cows and wheat and wine, but was intending the roading to connect to the fourth city we're discussing.

 

[leif erikson]

Given your reasoning, agree with placing a city one west of settler. Given the map below, the city site is one north of the city planned in position A. That is necessary to leave room for a city on the wooded grass hill near the Clams.

The next site you refer to is B, correct?

Rereading your post, do you mean the next city should be the one on the wooded grass hill near the Clams? Not sure we should place a city there when there are more productive sites that need attention?

 

[Cactus Pete]

Given your reasoning, agree with placing a city one west of settler. Given the map below, the city site is one north of the city planned in position A. That is necessary to leave room for a city on the wooded grass hill near the Clams. Right.

The next site you refer to is B, correct? Right.

Rereading your post, do you mean the next city should be the one on the wooded grass hill near the Clams? Not sure we should place a city there when there are more productive sites that need attention?

Don't think we should decide on fifth city site until we have explored more with the airship, especially the island to the east and Portuguese progress north, but B would be my default option.

 

[PaulisKhan]

Sorry for the lack of discussion from me today, wife wanted to go for a drive and a hike instead of me playing Civ. She just doesn't understand priorities.

I need some suggestions, what shall we build in Pyreaus once the worker is done?
What do we build in Athens once the airship is done?
What should be the build order for Marble city?

We want more workers and more settlers

New city I'm just going to set to granary.

 

[ShannonCT]

Piraeus could work on a granary while growing and more workers while at happy cap.

Athens could build more phalanxes/airships while growing and a settler while at happy cap.

Delphi should whip granary on T51 and then start building some phalanxes.

I agree with CP that the current settler should build a city to grab cows and copper. It'll have 2 surplus food working cows, copper, and windmill. It can stagnate by working 2 plains watermills or grow while working plains farms. We'll definitely want a quick granary there, and then some warriors while it's not connected to copper.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Concur with SCT's suggestions. As barb activity develops (or not) and info from airship becomes available, build priorities may become more evident.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Don't think we should decide on fifth city site until we have explored more with the airship, especially the island to the east and Portuguese progress north, but B would be my default option.

Yes, we already know that there is fur on the eastern island so if any food is also present it's a candidate for a city quite soon.

Seems a bit of an exaggeration -- can work cows, copper, hill/windmill, plus several farmed riverine plains tiles. It's not a bad production city with multiple forests to chop, keeps Ham from the copper, and slows his migration eastward. We could wait until the airship reveals whether or not the copper is vital to the Babylonians.

Farming plains will result in extremely slow growth, the extra gold gained by working an extra river tile is eaten up by additional maintenance incurred by higher pop. So net gain is an extra hammer. It's probably not worth spending any worker turns on this when they could be spent improving other much stronger tiles elsewhere. In the long run, instead of having a city that can smoothly develop to size 10 or better (warrior hill) producing substantial commerce we get a city that most likely stagnates at size 4 until Biology.

The warrior hill city also grabs the copper so this argument can't be used in favor of the other placement. And finally, none of the cities will block Hammurabi's expansion since there will be ways around our cultural borders in each case.

I think we should give up the idea of blocking Hammurabi and simply concentrate on grabbing the few good city sites we have found before he does. An alternative to settling west is to redirect the settler to the "B" spot in leif's dot map.

Delphi should whip granary on T51 and then start building some phalanxes.

Agree with whipping the granary and after that I think we should build a library. Delphi will be producing 19gpt at size 5 (20 with currency) so the extra 4-5 gpt we get with a library should be worth the invested hammers. And we might as well build it sooner rather than later.

 

[PaulisKhan]

My vote is for settling on the forested hill on the coast, then the next city we grab could be the 3 wine city. We let Hamm fill in that empty expanse of plains in the meantime.
Then we still need 3 more settlers after that one.

 

[leif erikson]

Yes, we already know that there is fur on the eastern island so if any food is also present it's a candidate for a city quite soon.

Looking forward to seeing what is revealed.

Farming plains will result in extremely slow growth, the extra gold gained by working an extra river tile is eaten up by additional maintenance incurred by higher pop. So net gain is an extra hammer. It's probably not worth spending any worker turns on this when they could be spent improving other much stronger tiles elsewhere. In the long run, instead of having a city that can smoothly develop to size 10 or better (warrior hill) producing substantial commerce we get a city that most likely stagnates at size 4 until Biology.

We have discussed getting to Communism and State Property. State Property adds one food to Watermills, so the site looks a bit better. And there is more commerce with Watermills.

A city here is a shorter distance from our core with no chance for Hammi to build a city which would disrupt our ability to get to it. It is closer to Hammi's borders and with our Creative trait, should allow us to get "up close" top his borders when time comes to .

I think the site west of where the settler is would be better for a warmonger type approach while the Clam site is more of a builder approach. Which way are we leaning? Seems to me that we are getting ourselves ready to take Hammi on? Although I do understand that Paratroopers and Airships make this less important as well.

I think we should give up the idea of blocking Hammurabi and simply concentrate on grabbing the few good city sites we have found before he does. An alternative to settling west is to redirect the settler to the "B" spot in leif's dot map.

This would be an acceptable alternative to me as well. Depends upon what we're planning to do?

 

[ShannonCT]

Farming plains will result in extremely slow growth, the extra gold gained by working an extra river tile is eaten up by additional maintenance incurred by higher pop. So net gain is an extra hammer. It's probably not worth spending any worker turns on this when they could be spent improving other much stronger tiles elsewhere. In the long run, instead of having a city that can smoothly develop to size 10 or better (warrior hill) producing substantial commerce we get a city that most likely stagnates at size 4 until Biology.

You may be right that farming plains is a bad use of worker turns at this point. Eventually, Biology will make plains worth inhabiting because 1 Biology farm + 1 State Property workshop is food neutral.

The warrior hill city also grabs the copper so this argument can't be used in favor of the other placement. And finally, none of the cities will block Hammurabi's expansion since there will be ways around our cultural borders in each case.

I think we should give up the idea of blocking Hammurabi and simply concentrate on grabbing the few good city sites we have found before he does. An alternative to settling west is to redirect the settler to the "B" spot in leif's dot map.

Copper-cow site would block all but the coastal corridor, and founding on both sites would block Hammy off completely. But maybe we are only fast enough to win one race. So if we found on the forest hill, Hammy will probably build a city to grab the cows. Then our next city at site B would block off most of the remainder of the continent. I don't think we should settle site B now though. We should grab at least one of the two good spots near Hammy before he does.

Agree with whipping the granary and after that I think we should build a library. Delphi will be producing 19gpt at size 5 (20 with currency) so the extra 4-5 gpt we get with a library should be worth the invested hammers. And we might as well build it sooner rather than later.

I'd like at least one more phalanx very soon to deal with barbs. We're going to have workers building roads/improvements near the edge of our borders and we need to be proactive about protecting them.

PK, I notice Athens will have a happy cap of 7 next turn. Let's grow it twice in the next 2 turns. And Piraeus's whip will wear off in 3 turns. It would be nice to have it at Pop5 then. You could either switch to a granary for 1 turn when the whip is about to wear off, or switch a scientist to the copper mine now to complete the worker faster, and delay the GS by a couple turns.

 

[Cactus Pete]

"I'd like at least one more phalanx very soon to deal with barbs. We're going to have workers building roads/improvements near the edge of our borders and we need to be proactive about protecting them." If we're going to settle on the forested hill, then this is an even more pressing need.

 

[rrau]

I like the forested hill warrior site better.....BUT.....If we're going to Hammy the W of the copper site might be better if it would help paratroopers get to the city faster.