SGOTM 10 - Maintenance Thread

[nocho]

Aside this, discussion closed, please don't bother again with stupid demands.

The only thing i can say is that this can be a new rule to implement for next SG.

The other thing you could say is "Sorry, shouldn't have done it", instead of trying to justify something that obviously (nearly) everybody else is in disagreement with. Probably you didn't gain much, but really, that's beside the point. I bring this only as a gentle advice btw, not as a "stupid demand".

Last thing. I did this after i've seen strange people visited a teammate profile. Then i went on mine (for the first time in months) and noticed more strange people.
Many of them were on other SG teams. What would you have thought? That they visited your own profile to see what?

I may be one of those strange people that visited your profile, I don't remember. Anyhow, I have a habit of looking at profiles from time to time. What for? Surely not to read people's posts through the search funcion. Merely interested if people write something about themselves (which most don't btw, I keep my privacy to myself as well on a public forum). IIRC you were rather vocal in the rules discussion thread or the sign up thread, so that may have arisen some superficial interest in who this BLubmuz might be. So then I may have taken a look at your profile and of course nothing more than merely your profile. People do that. It's advisable to not always suspect the worst of people.

Anyway, let's get on with it and let's forget about this rather sad interlude.

 

[BLubmuz]

As much as I find BLubmuz's attempted justifications annoying, what I find even more annoying is that he is just the one bold enough to post about it, and there are probably others who are keeping quiet.AlanH wrote:

"Looking at other team's posts is not permitted. It is forbidden. It doesn't matter how you do it, or where you do it, or whether I can see you do it. It is not allowed." (My emphasis)

What else needs to be said????

Edit: AlanH's quote is from post #72 in this thread

2 points need a comment:
1) I did posted about it 'cause i felt clear conscience to not have cheated in any form.
2) AlanH posted that enforcement to the rule which you quoted here and i agree.

So i did this once and that will be the first and the last time, trust me.

The other thing you could say is "Sorry, shouldn't have done it", instead of trying to justify something that obviously (nearly) everybody else is in disagreement with. Probably you didn't gain much, but really, that's beside the point. I bring this only as a gentle advice btw, not as a "stupid demand".

It's advisable to not always suspect the worst of people.

Anyway, let's get on with it and let's forget about this rather sad interlude.

I can be gentle and say what you would suggest me to say. And i hope thi post will close this interlude, mainly since the rules are clearly specified by AlanH.

About the " suspect the worst" i can be a little paranoic and this is not in the spirit of a friendly competition. But to be honest XotM are still a friendly competition, SGotMs seem more a cut-throath competition. Still, i like them.
Analyzing other teams saves of previous games (yes i do so, trying to learn) i've seen moves clearly out of the blue. But winning moves, if you have knowledge of the "future". What have i to think if not the worst?
And being Fifth Element one of the most advanced teams in terms of game time, just reading some row on our posts could have provided precious informations on resources locations and many aspects of the game.

Do you want me to post a list of innocent and disinterested people visiting my and Unclethrill's profiles?

Now, let's close this interlude and let's try to play this competition at our best, under every aspect.

 

[AlanH]

As the above discussion rapidly dumped my more prosaic, but nonetheless important post onto the previous page, here is my reminder again:

We're into the final month of this game. Please review your progress and make appropriate arrangements if you want to finish by the deadline - December 7

 

[AlanH]

New information has come to light on culture flips. It seems barbarian cities are an exception to the rule when the no flipping option is set (they can always be flipped.. they can also be flipped back to old owner when previously owned by a player even if the options prevent that)

So .... If a barb city flips to you without having previously been nuked, you should raze it.

 

[Yamps]

So .... If a barb city flips to you without having previously been nuked, you should raze it.

This might be a problem with the 'no city razing' option on...

 

[AlanH]

WHoops, sorry. Should have said 'disband'

 

[Yamps]

I mean, I don't think there's that option at all with the no city razing on, that's what I was getting at.

 

[AlanH]

I'm told it is possible to disband a city, but maybe I've been misled?

 

[BLubmuz]

I'm told it is possible to disband a city, but maybe I've been misled?

I made a test game with the same settings (of course ).

A barb city asked to join and i has the option to accept or disband it.

The "no city razing" is applied only to the cities you conquer. But you always got the choice to disband a city which would like to join your "Illustrious Empire".

Absolutely sure .
More: i often play with the "no city razing" option on low levels for the HOF and i always have this option when a city revolts.

The basics, guys, the basics!

 

[AlanH]

Thanks, BLubmuz

 

[kcd_swede]

New information has come to light on culture flips. It seems barbarian cities are an exception to the rule when the no flipping option is set (they can always be flipped.. they can also be flipped back to old owner when previously owned by a player even if the options prevent that)

So .... If a barb city flips to you without having previously been nuked, you should raze it.

My first reaction was "This seems like a cheesy way to get around the nuke requirement". But I think you have applied the rules correctly (they do state you cannot CAPTURE a city in any way, not that you cannot DESTROY a city in some esoteric fashion without nuking it.

My next reaction is... "Hmm... can we use this to advantage?"
The answer is probably not at this late stage.


Next I wonder: "Would this have changed strategies if it was known beforehand?"

 

[BLubmuz]

(...)
My next reaction is... "Hmm... can we use this to advantage?"
The answer is probably not at this late stage.


Next I wonder: "Would this have changed strategies if it was known beforehand?"

Surely not. This happens only if you got a solid established city producing great culture. Isolated barbs cities are all but interesting to own.

 

[Gumbolt]

This could of changed our strategy. I guess you have to know the game mechanics. That being said you still cant flip a barb capital if one existed.

 

[LowtherCastle]

So .... If a barb city flips to you without having previously been nuked, you should raze it.

Frankly, I don't see this as anything other than a fair warning to not let a city flip to you.

You will drop down the final ranking table* for each city that you capture without nuking it with a direct hit first. A "Capture" is defined as any method of obtaining a city other than by building it yourself using a settler.

The definition of capture is clear and in the rules thread it was made clear that we weren't supposed to have cities flip to us and we weren't supposed to raze any cities AT ALL.

Map Parameters

• Other settings - No city razing, No Culture Flips

Razing a city can make it easier to access another city for nuking. Just because people didn't know about barb cities still flipping doesn't mean anything. There's a whole lot we don't know about the game as we play it. I think Gyathaar's intention was clear.

To me, if a team flipped a barb city, they screwed up, but that's just my opinion. Murky Waters is not going to flip any cities Murky Waters didn't first nuke. As far as I'm concerned, any team that flips one from now on is doing it intentionally and violating Gyathaar's intentions. The team(s) that already did obviously did it unintentionally.

EDIT: So AlanH, I petition you and Gyathaar to forbid using culture flipping of barb cities in a team's strategy from this time stamp forward. Those teams that did it before the time stamp play on with a free conscience. My logic is that it's a team's intention that counts in any discussion of fairness. Teams to which this happened (presumably) were not aware of this in advance and so it was not part of their intentional strategy.

EDIT2: But don't get hung up over it. I doubt this will alter the results no matter what.

 

[BLubmuz]

I agree with LC. Partially.
We spent a lot of time and posts to have the rules clear.

You can't capture any city if you haven't nuked it first with a direct hit.
A culture flip is not properly a capture, and it was supposed it can't happen.

Now we discover (actually i did it weeks ago) that a barb city can culture-flip.
I can't see how this can influence a team strategy. A barb city needs very, very high cultural pressure to flip and this is not possible to have until the late game.

By then, all the strategies let place to tactics and logistics.

PLease don't look for strange excuses to avoid being penalized if you accepted a city which culture-flipped.

The only thing i complain is the "direct hit" thing. Why i must shoot my pleasant nuke exactly to the city when i can shoot it 1 or 2 tiles away and obtain the same effect on the city, but maybe spare some land tile?

But it's too late for any complaints. The rules are clear.

 

[Erkon]

...The only thing i complain is the "direct hit" thing. Why i must shoot my pleasant nuke exactly to the city when i can shoot it 1 or 2 tiles away and obtain the same effect on the city, but maybe spare some land tile?..

Erkon-the-nice-community-member: You need to hit it in order for the game to register that hit. A almost-hit is not registered, and could not be detected automatically. I think Alan stated this earlier somewhere, but I don't remember where. I also think it was written that a second strike could be next to the city if preferred.

Erkon-the-not-so-nice-competitor: What could be more glorious that a direct hit? Non-hits are for wimps, girlie play in it's truest form. Come'on - it's Armageddon! You don't play to win, you play to Kill'em!! Kill'em all!!!

 

[AlanH]

The only thing i complain is the "direct hit" thing. Why i must shoot my pleasant nuke exactly to the city when i can shoot it 1 or 2 tiles away and obtain the same effect on the city, but maybe spare some land tile?

That's mainly a selfish decision on the part of the organisers (me!).

We have to verify that you nuked every city you own. and didn't settle. The tool for that is the Replay utility. I can run the replay and see the cities that are taken. If I click on a city in the map I can see a list of the events history to date for that city. If a nuke has hit the city there's an event for it. Simple check.

If I had to work out whether you hit neighbouring tiles, it would be far more tedious. I would probably have to invent a whole new script just for this game, and you guys don't pay me enough to justify making that effort

 

[da_Vinci]

and you guys don't pay me enough to justify making that effort

You mean that six figure salary we pay you is not enough?

(It's 000,000 isn't it?)

dV

 

[CommandoBob]

A six figure salary paid in what?

• Japanese Yen
• Cambodian Riels
• Iranian Rials
• Vietnamese Dong
• Monopoly money

 

[AlanH]

Six zeroes has the same value in any currency.