Mathilda
Queen
Hi Peanut 
Good to see you haven't forgotten us.
Good to see you haven't forgotten us.
Absolutely we need more discussion before starting.Randy said:
SGOTM 10 - Peanut
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Mathilda
Queen
Build order?
Warrior - warrior - granary - warrior - settler?
Or the third warrior before the granary?
Early worker?
Chop the game forest for the granary?
Work order?
Move to bg 1turn (1)
Road bg 3turns (4)
move to wheat 1turn (5)
irrigate 4turns (9)
road 3 turns (12)
move to grass 1 turn (13)
irrigate 4turns (17)
move to game forest 1turn (18)
chop forest 4turns (22)
irrigate 4turns (26)
road 3turns (29)
move to bg and mine 3turns (32)
I'd love to be able to calculate the corresponding growth,
but I still can't do that.
So help me out here.
And comments about suggested build and work orders very much appreciated.
Warrior - warrior - granary - warrior - settler?
Or the third warrior before the granary?
Early worker?
Chop the game forest for the granary?
Work order?
Move to bg 1turn (1)
Road bg 3turns (4)
move to wheat 1turn (5)
irrigate 4turns (9)
road 3 turns (12)
move to grass 1 turn (13)
irrigate 4turns (17)
move to game forest 1turn (18)
chop forest 4turns (22)
irrigate 4turns (26)
road 3turns (29)
move to bg and mine 3turns (32)
I'd love to be able to calculate the corresponding growth,
but I still can't do that.
So help me out here.
And comments about suggested build and work orders very much appreciated.
Randy
Prince
First we have to deside, growth, science or producton.
I'd pick growth then science so we would want to irrigate the wheat asap. After that roads then mines.
We should work the oyster until we expand our boarder that will boost science.
As I just got up and my wife is ready for me to start my "Honey Do List" I'll do some calculation after diner.
I'd pick growth then science so we would want to irrigate the wheat asap. After that roads then mines.
We should work the oyster until we expand our boarder that will boost science.
As I just got up and my wife is ready for me to start my "Honey Do List" I'll do some calculation after diner.
Nice discussions, everybody! I was out all of Saturday, so I apologize for not participating to this point.
If you wish it, I will assume the captain's chair. Just bear with me as I try to recollect what C3C was about, after focusing on CIV for the last few months!
Regarding team order, I would suggest a slightly different order:
Mathilda (GMT+2)
KeithLarson (GMT-4 currently)
Bahzell (GMT-7)
AVN (GMT+2)
Randy (GMT-4 currently)
civ_steve (GMT-7 currently)
Arizona doesn't do the hour switch during the summer, so California and Arizona are in the same time zone right now. I would suggest this order because the 3 hours between East USA and West USA is sufficient for the next player (usually) to pick up the game on the same day to review and propose questions. If we switch their order (Randy's suggestion) or put East after East and West after West (Mathilda's suggestion), the next player will often not get the game until the next day.
This order is slightly better (IMO) for time's sake. We have been one of the faster teams the last few games and that is slightly disadventageous because later teams can see your score and get an idea of how they're doing. I'm not too concerned about this; I'd rather get the game going, finish a bit earlier, and monitor the other team's as they finish. See if we locked it up, or left too much room.
In any case, let's start off with Mathilda
The save is available! I loaded it up, and promptly saw that I couldn't see the resources. So we will have to load the small resource set and install it according to the SGOTM maintenance thread (per AlanH's directions). I did that and can now see the Oysters. If you have any problems, post them right away and I (or others) can help get the new resources installed.
I'm going to think a bit about the starting strategy and post my suggestions shortly.
If you wish it, I will assume the captain's chair. Just bear with me as I try to recollect what C3C was about, after focusing on CIV for the last few months!
Regarding team order, I would suggest a slightly different order:
Mathilda (GMT+2)
KeithLarson (GMT-4 currently)
Bahzell (GMT-7)
AVN (GMT+2)
Randy (GMT-4 currently)
civ_steve (GMT-7 currently)
Arizona doesn't do the hour switch during the summer, so California and Arizona are in the same time zone right now. I would suggest this order because the 3 hours between East USA and West USA is sufficient for the next player (usually) to pick up the game on the same day to review and propose questions. If we switch their order (Randy's suggestion) or put East after East and West after West (Mathilda's suggestion), the next player will often not get the game until the next day.
This order is slightly better (IMO) for time's sake. We have been one of the faster teams the last few games and that is slightly disadventageous because later teams can see your score and get an idea of how they're doing. I'm not too concerned about this; I'd rather get the game going, finish a bit earlier, and monitor the other team's as they finish. See if we locked it up, or left too much room.
In any case, let's start off with Mathilda
The save is available! I loaded it up, and promptly saw that I couldn't see the resources. So we will have to load the small resource set and install it according to the SGOTM maintenance thread (per AlanH's directions). I did that and can now see the Oysters. If you have any problems, post them right away and I (or others) can help get the new resources installed.
I'm going to think a bit about the starting strategy and post my suggestions shortly.
It seems we are pretty much agreed about moving NE to the plains space (on the river) and founding London there. Please say so if you don't agree!
To get to +5 food: Irrigated Wheat gives +2; note that the Game tile is over a Plains space (it appears) so irrigated/chopped Game gives +1; city center gives +2 so we're at +5 food at that point.
At size 4 we would use 2 mined BG's, 1 irrigated Wheat and 1 irrigated/chopped Game for 6 shields (1 from city center, 2 each from mined BG's and 1 from plains/Game).
So 6 shields on turn1
8 shields on turn 2 (using Forest on growth to size5) = 14; switch to irrigated Plains
7 shields on turn 3 = 21 shields
9 shields on turn 4 (using Forest on growth to size6) = 30 and Settler, back to size4 and repeat
Focusing on growth is usually best so we need to:
mine 2 BG's (12 turns plus moves)
irrigate Wheat and a Plains space (8 turns plus moves)
irrigate/chop Game space (14 turns plus moves)
34 Worker turns plus moves (let's say 40 overall); we could also choose to mine a Grassland space, instead of irrigating a Plains space - +2 turns if we go that route; building roads will add to this, so I'm leaning towards building a 2nd Worker fairly early.
We can't use the Wheat until first expansion, that's about turn 12. This is enough time to road or mine the closest BG (Worker SE to BG (t1), Mine (t7), Worker E to Wheat (t8), Irrigate (t12)
This would give us ... up to 33 shields up to turn 12. Using the Games space we get 3 shields/turn; once the BG is mined, switch to it to get the 1 extra commerce from the river. We can build 2 Warriors (might as well use Game on turns 2 and 3, then switch to River BG for turns 4 and 5; still get 10 shields, but also get 2 extra commerce). For Warrior 2 use Game for turn 6, River BG for turns 7 and 8 (should be mined on turn 7), then Oyster on turn 9 (get an extra commerce; only 1 shield but that's enough). Then Worker, use River BG for turns 10, 11 and 12; should pick up Irrigated Wheat on turn 12 with growth to size 2; switch BG to Oyster on turn 13 for Worker. After that - Granary. Use both Workers to chop/irrigate the Game, then complete the other worker tasks.
I've got to run right now - perhaps this can be put in table form? (Or I can later).
Re- Barbarian nation. I don't think they can just pop up. They might be isolated on their own island; so minimal help from the AI in that case (cause they are so bad at invasions). An interesting thought - the Barbarian nation might have access to a Galley replacement that CAN cross the Ocean! In that case, we might be getting raided while we research up to Astronomy and Navigation.
Probably best to pursue Republic sling shot while scouting out surroundings. At Emperor, it's best to go straight to it (Writing, CofL and Phil) then sort out the Map-Making if needed.
Barb Nation's unique units? That could be interesting! Perhaps a very strong defense requiring late era units to overcome!
Til later!
To get to +5 food: Irrigated Wheat gives +2; note that the Game tile is over a Plains space (it appears) so irrigated/chopped Game gives +1; city center gives +2 so we're at +5 food at that point.
At size 4 we would use 2 mined BG's, 1 irrigated Wheat and 1 irrigated/chopped Game for 6 shields (1 from city center, 2 each from mined BG's and 1 from plains/Game).
So 6 shields on turn1
8 shields on turn 2 (using Forest on growth to size5) = 14; switch to irrigated Plains
7 shields on turn 3 = 21 shields
9 shields on turn 4 (using Forest on growth to size6) = 30 and Settler, back to size4 and repeat
Focusing on growth is usually best so we need to:
mine 2 BG's (12 turns plus moves)
irrigate Wheat and a Plains space (8 turns plus moves)
irrigate/chop Game space (14 turns plus moves)
34 Worker turns plus moves (let's say 40 overall); we could also choose to mine a Grassland space, instead of irrigating a Plains space - +2 turns if we go that route; building roads will add to this, so I'm leaning towards building a 2nd Worker fairly early.
We can't use the Wheat until first expansion, that's about turn 12. This is enough time to road or mine the closest BG (Worker SE to BG (t1), Mine (t7), Worker E to Wheat (t8), Irrigate (t12)
This would give us ... up to 33 shields up to turn 12. Using the Games space we get 3 shields/turn; once the BG is mined, switch to it to get the 1 extra commerce from the river. We can build 2 Warriors (might as well use Game on turns 2 and 3, then switch to River BG for turns 4 and 5; still get 10 shields, but also get 2 extra commerce). For Warrior 2 use Game for turn 6, River BG for turns 7 and 8 (should be mined on turn 7), then Oyster on turn 9 (get an extra commerce; only 1 shield but that's enough). Then Worker, use River BG for turns 10, 11 and 12; should pick up Irrigated Wheat on turn 12 with growth to size 2; switch BG to Oyster on turn 13 for Worker. After that - Granary. Use both Workers to chop/irrigate the Game, then complete the other worker tasks.
I've got to run right now - perhaps this can be put in table form? (Or I can later).
Re- Barbarian nation. I don't think they can just pop up. They might be isolated on their own island; so minimal help from the AI in that case (cause they are so bad at invasions). An interesting thought - the Barbarian nation might have access to a Galley replacement that CAN cross the Ocean! In that case, we might be getting raided while we research up to Astronomy and Navigation.
Probably best to pursue Republic sling shot while scouting out surroundings. At Emperor, it's best to go straight to it (Writing, CofL and Phil) then sort out the Map-Making if needed.
Barb Nation's unique units? That could be interesting! Perhaps a very strong defense requiring late era units to overcome!
Til later!
Mathilda
Queen
Steve, your team order sounds fine MaKeBARaCi it is.
Yes, I think I'll have to go through your set up veeery thoroughly, all that swapping ...
Let's see if I can make sense of it.
edit: No way, I'm still struggling with the basic conept of where the turn ends and another one starts.
Yes, I think I'll have to go through your set up veeery thoroughly, all that swapping ...
Let's see if I can make sense of it.
edit: No way, I'm still struggling with the basic conept of where the turn ends and another one starts.
Randy
Prince
As I work 10am until 6 or 7 pm I keep time as if I were on the west coast. that's why during the week I on line from midnigt to about 3am. So my east coast time does not matter.
I'd build that little boat before a second warrior. Then we could scout our coast at 2x speed over a warrior. I might even build 2 to sail both ways around our island.
I'd settle on the plain to the NE. first moving the worker to the BG. Then move to the wheat and irr/road. I'd work the oyster first. That will slow production but boost science.
My first goal would be get a settle then grannery or rev order.
I'd build that little boat before a second warrior. Then we could scout our coast at 2x speed over a warrior. I might even build 2 to sail both ways around our island.
I'd settle on the plain to the NE. first moving the worker to the BG. Then move to the wheat and irr/road. I'd work the oyster first. That will slow production but boost science.
My first goal would be get a settle then grannery or rev order.
Randy
Prince
I downloaded the fill (SGOTM-C3C) from the maintance thread but were do I unzip it. And is that all I have to do to play C3C instead of PtW?
Randy
Prince
Thanks AlanH, I think I have it.
AVN
Deity
We have found the following information in CivAssist II and the civilopedia of this game.
In CivAssist :
The barb nation is militaristic and seafaring.
Special unit is the pirate ship.
Starting techs are barbarian tech and the wheel
Leader is Dr. Evil
Favourite government is barbarism (also their current government)
Shunned government is democracy
Agression level is maximum
The pirate ship is a special privateer with attack =2, defense =1, movement =9, bombard =3, range=1, rate of fire =1, transport capacity =1), costs 40 shields and can be built with astronomy.
The normal privateer has A=2, D=1, M=5, B=3, R=0!!, ROF=0!! and no transport capacity)
Another special unit I found in the civilopedia is the Barbaric Guard which costs 20 shields, has attack 0, defense 8, movement 1 and bombard 9 with range =3, ROF =3. No techs and requirements are necessary to build this extreme strong defensive unit.
There is also a special great wonder, namely the Technology Thieves, which seems to work like the Great Library, but costs only 20 shields and doesn't become obsolete.
I couldn't find specific information about the barbarism tech and government, but I guess they give the barberians quite a number of additional advantages.
Finally a lot of upgrades seem to be different from usual.
The Ansar warrior upgrades to Rider
Berserk ->Longbowman
Chasqui Scout -> Conquistador
Conquistador -> Explorer
Enkidu Warrior -> Pikeman
Gallic Swordsman -> Legionary
Impi -> Musketman
Jaguar Warrior -> Swordsman
Javelin Thrower -> Berserk
Keshik -> Ansar Warrior
Legionary -> Immortal
Mounted Warrior -> 3-man chariot
3-man chariot -> Knight
Rider -> Samurai
Sipahi -> Cossack
Swiss Mercenary -> Musketeer
Samurai -> War Elephant
I don't know what to think of the above list.
I expect an extremely strong barbarian nation now, and I'm not sure yet if this means we have to adjust our proposed strategy (playing more conservatively with initially building more military units, instead of going for the fastest expansion possible).
Will post my opinions about the strategy later today.
In CivAssist :
The barb nation is militaristic and seafaring.
Special unit is the pirate ship.
Starting techs are barbarian tech and the wheel
Leader is Dr. Evil
Favourite government is barbarism (also their current government)
Shunned government is democracy
Agression level is maximum
The pirate ship is a special privateer with attack =2, defense =1, movement =9, bombard =3, range=1, rate of fire =1, transport capacity =1), costs 40 shields and can be built with astronomy.
The normal privateer has A=2, D=1, M=5, B=3, R=0!!, ROF=0!! and no transport capacity)
Another special unit I found in the civilopedia is the Barbaric Guard which costs 20 shields, has attack 0, defense 8, movement 1 and bombard 9 with range =3, ROF =3. No techs and requirements are necessary to build this extreme strong defensive unit.
There is also a special great wonder, namely the Technology Thieves, which seems to work like the Great Library, but costs only 20 shields and doesn't become obsolete.
I couldn't find specific information about the barbarism tech and government, but I guess they give the barberians quite a number of additional advantages.
Finally a lot of upgrades seem to be different from usual.
The Ansar warrior upgrades to Rider
Berserk ->Longbowman
Chasqui Scout -> Conquistador
Conquistador -> Explorer
Enkidu Warrior -> Pikeman
Gallic Swordsman -> Legionary
Impi -> Musketman
Jaguar Warrior -> Swordsman
Javelin Thrower -> Berserk
Keshik -> Ansar Warrior
Legionary -> Immortal
Mounted Warrior -> 3-man chariot
3-man chariot -> Knight
Rider -> Samurai
Sipahi -> Cossack
Swiss Mercenary -> Musketeer
Samurai -> War Elephant
I don't know what to think of the above list.
I expect an extremely strong barbarian nation now, and I'm not sure yet if this means we have to adjust our proposed strategy (playing more conservatively with initially building more military units, instead of going for the fastest expansion possible).
Will post my opinions about the strategy later today.
Mathilda
Queen
This gave me a passing thought that would it be worth the gamble of trying to snitch that wonder, just to stop the BBBs getting it.AVN said:
It would probably mean settling in place and joining the worker.
My feeling is against it as it seems too risky. We have no idea what sort of start tha BBBs get, maybe they start with some towns, who knows shat size towns, I'm not even sure if we can build it or if Gyathaar has managed to set it up so that only the BBBs can build it.
Just thought I'd throw this out for consideration anyway.
That's all standard stuff. The upgrade sequences for UUs are included in the standard sequences. Civs that don't have access to them skip them when displaying upgrade options. Nothing to see here
Some very nice sleuthing, AVN! I was pretty sure the Barbarian Nation had a nasty defensive unit, and their Guard unit fits the bill! Fortunately the AI is poor at using bombard units, but with a couple of these defending their cities, they don't have to be very good. Does this unit have lethal bombard?
Their super Pirate ships will potentially sweep the oceans of any approaching navies until well after Astronomy. The AI uses Privateers reasonably well now, and I'm sure this unit will see use. IF the Barb Nation can learn Astronomy in a timely fashion.
I would venture a guess that the Technology Thieves wonder is only available to the Barb nation; probably tied to their barbarian tech, which only they can learn. Makes sense otherwise the Barbarians would fall completely behind in Tech, since they can't trade with anyone. On the other hand, now they need to do no research, since they will get any new techs once contact is achieved with 2 or more civs.
For a long term strategy, we could decide to expand rapidly, trade frequently with our 'allies' and attempt to locate the Barb nation by ourselves, do not trade contact!, and attempt to run them over with lots of early units. Even if they get a second contact, and learn lots of Techs, there might be a window when they are upgrading to do them in with Knights. Problems could exist if we can't reach them. Galleys can't enter Oceans, but Caravels probably can. I see that Differential Naval Movement is on, so the range of these units is pretty large. Perhaps Curraghs can enter Ocean as well! If so they can locate but can't carry anything.
If we can do this, great! Otherwise, I feel it will be a long game, taking us at least into the mid-Industrial game, perhaps later. In either case, I think we should be good tech traders but also smart - we want to have a Tech lead when contact with the Barbs is made so that they don't get all the units we have access to. Especially want to protect Astronomy.
@Randy - I had forgotten about Curraghs! See what a break from C3C can do.
Here's a table of moves for the first 25-30 turns or so to get us up to Granary. I will try to 'attach' them. I think fast growth is very important, so this approach builds a 2nd Worker and gets the Granary out around turn 28. There's still a BG to mine and Plains to irrigate, but in 8 more turns those actions should be finished and the Settler factory in full operation. Send one Worker to plains to Irrigate (6 turns) and the other to the BG to mine (8 turns). I think this is an improvement over the minimum 40ish turns needed with 1 Worker. Please post any improvements that you see.
From this point, I would build a Settler, possibly a Warrior, then settle into building Settlers
Their super Pirate ships will potentially sweep the oceans of any approaching navies until well after Astronomy. The AI uses Privateers reasonably well now, and I'm sure this unit will see use. IF the Barb Nation can learn Astronomy in a timely fashion.
I would venture a guess that the Technology Thieves wonder is only available to the Barb nation; probably tied to their barbarian tech, which only they can learn. Makes sense otherwise the Barbarians would fall completely behind in Tech, since they can't trade with anyone. On the other hand, now they need to do no research, since they will get any new techs once contact is achieved with 2 or more civs.
For a long term strategy, we could decide to expand rapidly, trade frequently with our 'allies' and attempt to locate the Barb nation by ourselves, do not trade contact!, and attempt to run them over with lots of early units. Even if they get a second contact, and learn lots of Techs, there might be a window when they are upgrading to do them in with Knights. Problems could exist if we can't reach them. Galleys can't enter Oceans, but Caravels probably can. I see that Differential Naval Movement is on, so the range of these units is pretty large. Perhaps Curraghs can enter Ocean as well! If so they can locate but can't carry anything.
If we can do this, great! Otherwise, I feel it will be a long game, taking us at least into the mid-Industrial game, perhaps later. In either case, I think we should be good tech traders but also smart - we want to have a Tech lead when contact with the Barbs is made so that they don't get all the units we have access to. Especially want to protect Astronomy.
@Randy - I had forgotten about Curraghs! See what a break from C3C can do.
Here's a table of moves for the first 25-30 turns or so to get us up to Granary. I will try to 'attach' them. I think fast growth is very important, so this approach builds a 2nd Worker and gets the Granary out around turn 28. There's still a BG to mine and Plains to irrigate, but in 8 more turns those actions should be finished and the Settler factory in full operation. Send one Worker to plains to Irrigate (6 turns) and the other to the BG to mine (8 turns). I think this is an improvement over the minimum 40ish turns needed with 1 Worker. Please post any improvements that you see.
From this point, I would build a Settler, possibly a Warrior, then settle into building Settlers
Attachments
Mathilda
Queen
Thanks Steve, that makes the first twenty look like even I can do them
Basicly I wouldn't make many presumptions at this stage.
I see a possibility that the BBBs will start on two different continents, ours and a far away one. You should know by know what Gyathaar can be like
Oh, and as I can see the BBBs in F4 and in civ assist, I presume so can all the AIs so that would mean that the BBBs already know everybody. So no hope in them not getting the techs.
One more question.
Writing at max?
Basicly I wouldn't make many presumptions at this stage.
I see a possibility that the BBBs will start on two different continents, ours and a far away one. You should know by know what Gyathaar can be like
Oh, and as I can see the BBBs in F4 and in civ assist, I presume so can all the AIs so that would mean that the BBBs already know everybody. So no hope in them not getting the techs.
One more question.
Writing at max?
My first instinct is to say yes! However, I'm not sure if we beat the 40 turn minimum. Wait a minute - is it 40 or 50 turns for minimum research under C3C? Either way, this set of turns doesn't focus on commerce. I'm not sure how much commerce London will generate - that is additional per turn. So the steps I've laid out add 54 commerce to London's value; if that's 5 commerce per turn from London that would give us a total of 194 commerce in the 28 turns I laid out. I would compare that to the cost to learn Writing in CivAssist and see if it makes sense to do minimum research or not. Also, we will be relying on the Luxury tax to keep the people happy initially, which will reduce the amount of science we can do.
Probably want Maximum, but let's look at the numbers.
(PS, the numbers under Food, Shields and Commerce are added in at the end of that turn, so they take effect after the actions noted in the Notes column. Also, the switch to River BG note on the 3rd or 4th turn can be ignored; it was an incorrect holdover from when I assumed we were using the Game from turn2 on; We can't cause moving the settler NE one space puts the Game out of the initial set of useable spaces.)
Probably want Maximum, but let's look at the numbers.
(PS, the numbers under Food, Shields and Commerce are added in at the end of that turn, so they take effect after the actions noted in the Notes column. Also, the switch to River BG note on the 3rd or 4th turn can be ignored; it was an incorrect holdover from when I assumed we were using the Game from turn2 on; We can't cause moving the settler NE one space puts the Game out of the initial set of useable spaces.)
AVN
Deity
First some more long-term comments.
As far as I know Barberian Guards don't have lethal bombard, but I still consider these units extremely dangerous and IMHO they require tanks or maybe even Modern Armor to attack them successfully.
The Barbs are warring with everybody, so they have contacts with everybody from the start of the game. I agree with civ_steve that we should keep them as stupid as possible and IMHO this means that at a certain moment we should stop tech trading with others. I'm thinking about stopping tech trading at the start of the Industrial Age, once we have achieved 4-turn tech research by ourselves. Thsi probably means that we should have conquered one or two civs by then.
Locating the barb nation early in the game has IMO no importance at all, because we or other AI's can't trade with them. So even if curraghs can travel (and sink) on oceans, suicide runs with them will IMO generate no advantages at all.
City placement should IMO be done in such a way that every city will get 12 workable and profitable (especially commercially interesting) tiles.
OK, these were my long term ideas for now. IMO we don't have to agree on them now, to start playing the game.
Regarding the short term (next 20 turns).
I agree with moving the settler one NE and settle there.
However I still prefer to start with 2 warriors instead of 1 warrior and 1 curragh. Warriors give a little bit more military power, are cheaper and we aren't sure yet, that the water isn't some sort of lake in which a curragh can't discover anything anymore after 3 or 4 turns. Furthermore curraghs are quite vulnarable to attacks of barb ships. I always seem to lose them very fast.
I'm also not in favour of building a worker before the granary, because it delays the building of the granary significantly.
If we build 2 warriors and then the granary then the granary will be ready after turn 22. 6 turns faster than building warrior, curragh, worker, granary.
If we build a worker then (I'm probably still not in favour of that, but assume this to be able to compare results better), then we have a full functioning settler factory ready after turn 33, 3 turns faster then in steve's table.
The only difference I can see is that steve has also roaded 2 roads by then, but 2 workers can build 4 roads in 3 turns. And the first settler is out much earlier
So IMHO warrior, warrior and then granary is better.
(I'm trying to find an optimal working scheme for the worker later).
Finally : - Chopping forests costs only 4 turns in Conquests.
As far as I know Barberian Guards don't have lethal bombard, but I still consider these units extremely dangerous and IMHO they require tanks or maybe even Modern Armor to attack them successfully.
The Barbs are warring with everybody, so they have contacts with everybody from the start of the game. I agree with civ_steve that we should keep them as stupid as possible and IMHO this means that at a certain moment we should stop tech trading with others. I'm thinking about stopping tech trading at the start of the Industrial Age, once we have achieved 4-turn tech research by ourselves. Thsi probably means that we should have conquered one or two civs by then.
Locating the barb nation early in the game has IMO no importance at all, because we or other AI's can't trade with them. So even if curraghs can travel (and sink) on oceans, suicide runs with them will IMO generate no advantages at all.
City placement should IMO be done in such a way that every city will get 12 workable and profitable (especially commercially interesting) tiles.
OK, these were my long term ideas for now. IMO we don't have to agree on them now, to start playing the game.
Regarding the short term (next 20 turns).
I agree with moving the settler one NE and settle there.
However I still prefer to start with 2 warriors instead of 1 warrior and 1 curragh. Warriors give a little bit more military power, are cheaper and we aren't sure yet, that the water isn't some sort of lake in which a curragh can't discover anything anymore after 3 or 4 turns. Furthermore curraghs are quite vulnarable to attacks of barb ships. I always seem to lose them very fast.
I'm also not in favour of building a worker before the granary, because it delays the building of the granary significantly.
If we build 2 warriors and then the granary then the granary will be ready after turn 22. 6 turns faster than building warrior, curragh, worker, granary.
If we build a worker then (I'm probably still not in favour of that, but assume this to be able to compare results better), then we have a full functioning settler factory ready after turn 33, 3 turns faster then in steve's table.
The only difference I can see is that steve has also roaded 2 roads by then, but 2 workers can build 4 roads in 3 turns. And the first settler is out much earlier
So IMHO warrior, warrior and then granary is better.
(I'm trying to find an optimal working scheme for the worker later).
Finally : - Chopping forests costs only 4 turns in Conquests.
Mathilda
Queen
I've just done that, and the cost is 240.civ_steve said:
In London city centre I seem to be getting 4gpt (started a couple of test games to get a bit of a feel for England on Emperor.
I'm still in favour of max reasearch, might not be many turns, but it's all to good, eh?
edit: and yes, it's 50 turns
Randy
Prince
It's 50 at min, so I'd do writing at max. I've never had a game that could not shave a few turn at max.
