SGOTM 10 - Xteam

[Frederiksberg]

Curious why we would want to settle on the Iron? We have two Fur tiles in Orange City and we can claim the other two if we wish to build a city 2-tiles west of the northern Fur.

Because I don't want to settle the fur city.

Not too sure I like the one-tile island. The eastern Fish is too close to Roosie, and if he claims it, the city won't fair too well?

The risk is primarily that Roosevelt may settle a city near the fish. It will take a while before NY expands for the 3rd time so defending against NY culture is possible.

I'm thinking we want 4-more cities:
1. North of Delhi.
2. NW of St. Pete.
3. Ice City.
4. Fur city, 2-tiles west of the northern Fur tile. This is if we place the Ice City SE of the Iron.

I don't think the fur city is worth the expensive settler. Primarily because it has no resources and if it works the fur it cannot grow. And also because there are other city sites that are better.

Perhaps when I begin, this would be the first stopping point, founding that city.

Yes, that seems natural. I hope you can find time to do some exploring east during these turns.

Are you advocating switching to Caste at the same time as Pacifism?

No, I think we need slavery to build our remaining settlers.

 

[leif erikson]

OK, so are we agreed to settle the three cities and then can switch to Caste? So we have to plan for 2 more Settlers, unless we find something juicy to the east?

We can build NE in St. Pete until we are ready to pop-rush a Settler there.
In Moscow, we could build culture for three turns, then a Work Boat and then a Settler?

I'll have a look at how that fits into the overall plan later today.

 

[Frederiksberg]

OK, so are we agreed to settle the three cities and then can switch to Caste? So we have to plan for 2 more Settlers, unless we find something juicy to the east?

We can build NE in St. Pete until we are ready to pop-rush a Settler there.
In Moscow, we could build culture for three turns, then a Work Boat and then a Settler?

I'll have a look at how that fits into the overall plan later today.

All this sounds good to me and I think we can postpone the decision on whether to build more than 3 additional settlers. I believe a settler can be built when St. Pete hits 10 pop and when Moscow hits 8 pop. We could consider giving the rice tile to Moscow because we get more hammer per pop here due to Bureaucracy. I think we can live with a moderate stacking of unhappy faces.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Because I don't want to settle the fur city. I don't think the fur city is worth the expensive settler. Primarily because it has no resources and if it works the fur it cannot grow. And also because there are other city sites that are better.Let's put this decision off. Especially with Biology, the fur city can grow and does provide some potential benefits short term as well as long.

The risk is primarily that Roosevelt may settle a city near the fish. It will take a while before NY expands for the 3rd time so defending against NY culture is possible. No opinion on culture defence.

Yes, that seems natural. I hope you can find time to do some exploring east during these turns. Concur. Good stopping point after next city established.

No, I think we need slavery to build our remaining settlers.

Concur.

What is your plan for our caravel vs. G's?

 

[leif erikson]

What is your plan for our caravel vs. G's?

If we are seeking peace in 5-turns or so, I think we should try to preserve it. Losing it to G only helps his Caravel to another promo? I wonder if the presence of our Caravel is helping to keep G's Galley in port?

 

[leif erikson]

Here is a revised plan for the turn set, updates in Orange:

Research:
A Great Engineer is due in two turns and will be used to bulb Gunpowder. He will make up 1557 beakers of the 1814 needed. At 100% research, currently providing 83 Beakers per turn, we would need three turns to achieve Gunpowder, so we could switch to it now for the two turns waiting for the GE and then have it next turn.

Once we have Gunpowder, switch back to Printing Press. And continue research at 100%.

Civics:
With the coming of the Great Engineer in Moscow, we change to Pacifism.
Change to Caste will wait until we know we are out of expansion phase.

Great People:
Do we contaminate the gene pool in St. Pete to include a Scientist to speed the, hopefully, Engineer?
Whether we go straight Engineer or add a Scientists remains an issue?

Cities:
Moscow – change build to Culture for three turns, then a Work Boat and another Settler.
St. Petersburg – complete Settler and then National Epic.
Horse City – change production to Work Boat until pop 4, back to Worker and pop-rush it.
[COLOR="DarkOrange"[B]]Novgorod – culture for 3-turns then a Warrior, if we trade Iron?[/B][/COLOR]
Orange City – continues Caravel.
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Keep an eye on Governors that they don't add unwanted Scientists[/COLOR].

Priority of founding cities:
1. North of Delhi, 1-tile north of Iron.
2. NW of St. Pete, on the Grass Hill 2-tiles north of Crab.
3. Ice City, settle on the Iron.

Worker actions:
Worker4, south of Bombay, heads for the new city north of Delhi to Pasture the Cows and then mine the Iron.
Moscow area – send a Worker from Horse City to build a Farm on the plains tile west of the city and then a Windmill on the Desert Hill.
St. Petersburg – [COLOR="DarkOrange"[B]]use these Workers to improve tiles in the Moscow and Horse City areas.[/B][/COLOR]
Horse City – Mine the Grass Hill and then build Workshops on the grass tiles.
[COLOR="DarkOrange"]Orange City – cut forest NW of the city, build a Camp on the Fur tile east of the city and then begin building a Farm to help bring irrigation to the Novgorod site.
Novgorod – pasture the Cow tile once the borders expand, then build a Farm to bring irrigation to the city. Then we can build Windmills on the hill tiles.[/COLOR]

Unit orders.
Land the LB off of the Galley to the hill ESE of the Galley.
Use the Knight to cover the Settler headed for the area north of Delhi after checking for the location of G's Worker.
LB in Moscow heads for the new city site north of Delhi, accompanying the Worker part of the way. Then heads for Delhi if the war continues.
Our Caravel remains in the St. Pete area to protect the nets there.

Trades.
Mao has Gunpowder already, but no chance for a trade.
Trade Iron to AI for something useful, which allows us to build Warriors again.
EDIT - No one can/will trade for our Iron. We can gift it to De Gaulle, who is Cautious with us, or Roosevelt, who is Pleased with us?
Sell our maps to AI that will purchase them.
Once we have both Fur hooked, we can look for further resource trades.
Watch for other techs coming onto the market.

 

[Mistfit]

Is this the spot for unadulterated spam?

Good luck on this guys it has been a nice read so far

 

[Cactus Pete]

Research:
A Great Engineer is due in two turns and will be used to bulb Gunpowder. Why bulb immediately? He will make up 1557 beakers of the 1814 needed.
Civics:
With the coming of the Great Engineer in Moscow, we change to Pacifism.
Change to Caste will wait until we know we are out of expansion phase.

Great People:
Do we contaminate the gene pool in St. Pete to include a Scientist to speed the, hopefully, Engineer?
Whether we go straight Engineer or add a Scientists remains an issue? Waiting for NE before hiring specialists will speed settler production. Fred, are you confident that speeding GP's by 100% is more valuable than 2 food for growth and the hammers that brings?

Priority of founding cities:
1. North of Delhi, 1-tile north of Iron. No city 2W of beaver? Thought we were going to defer that decision.
2. NW of St. Pete, on the Grass Hill 2-tiles north of Crab.
3. Ice City, settle on the Iron. See above.

Worker actions:
Worker4, south of Bombay, heads for the new city north of Delhi to Pasture the Cows and then mine the Iron.
Moscow area – send a Worker from Horse City to build a Farm on the plains tile west of the city and then a Windmill on the Desert Hill.
St. Petersburg – [COLOR="DarkOrange"[B]]use these Workers to improve tiles in the Moscow and Horse City areas.[/B][/COLOR]
Horse City – Mine the Grass Hill and then build Workshops on the grass tiles. [COLOR="red"]Leave the grass tile that would connect to farms in a Fur City unimproved, at least temporarily.[/COLOR]
Orange City – cut forest NW of the city, build a Camp on the Fur tile east of the city and then begin building a Farm to help bring irrigation to the Novgorod site. Suggest building the farm first to speed growth.
Novgorod – pasture the Cow tile once the borders expand, then build a Farm to bring irrigation to the city. Then we can build Windmills on the hill tiles.

Unit orders.
Land the LB off of the Galley to the hill ESE of the Galley. It will be a while before the galley is needed to transport a settler to the ice island. In the meantime you can use you 3/2 movement advantafe to cautiously explore a bit to the east, going forward two and back one each turn.
Use the Knight to cover the Settler headed for the area north of Delhi after checking for the location of G's Worker.
LB in Moscow heads for the new city site north of Delhi, accompanying the Worker part of the way. Then heads for Delhi if the war continues.
Our Caravel remains in the St. Pete area to protect the nets there. That is not consistent with protecting him.

Trades.
Mao has Gunpowder already, but no chance for a trade.
Trade Iron to AI for something useful, which allows us to build Warriors again.
EDIT - No one can/will trade for our Iron. We can gift it to De Gaulle, who is Cautious with us, or Roosevelt, who is Pleased with us? Gifting is fine with me, but I'm uncertain whether cancelling a gift after ten turns incurs any diplomatic cost.
Sell our maps to AI that will purchase them.
Once we have both Fur hooked, we can look for further resource trades. Don't think there is any rush to hook furs, especially while we're building settlers and not growing. Certainly don't need both right away, as just one of them will put us in position to take advantage of a trade.
Watch for other techs coming onto the market.

......

 

[leif erikson]

Why bulb immediately?

I suppose there is no need, unless a trade presents itself for Gunpowder? iirc, it requires 3-turns at 100% research after the bulb.

No city 2W of beaver? Thought we were going to defer that decision.

As Ice City is the third city on the list, we will have time to review this decision. I'm inclined to build Fur City, we can discuss this more at the break points.

EDIT - No one can/will trade for our Iron. We can gift it to De Gaulle, who is Cautious with us, or Roosevelt, who is Pleased with us?
Gifting is fine with me, but I'm uncertain whether canceling a gift after ten turns incurs any diplomatic cost.

As long as we complete our 10 turns, the only "penalty" would be loss of any trade bonus?

Don't think there is any rush to hook furs, especially while we're building settlers and not growing. Certainly don't need both right away, as just one of them will put us in position to take advantage of a trade.

OK, noted.

Our Caravel remains in the St. Pete area to protect the nets there.
That is not consistent with protecting him.

If I have to put him into port in St. Pete, I can. My only concern is G building a city northwest of St. Pete. Although that seems pretty remote atm.

Waiting for NE before hiring specialists will speed settler production. Fred, are you confident that speeding GP's by 100% is more valuable than 2 food for growth and the hammers that brings?

Agreed, should get the city's pop up to 10 to rush a Settler.

And got you on the other Worker actions.

 

[leif erikson]

Is this the spot for unadulterated spam?

This is the home of unadulterated spam...

Good luck on this guys it has been a nice read so far

How have you been. Haven't seen you converting people's avatars lately...
Hope all is well up there in the frozen wilds.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Waiting for NE before hiring specialists will speed settler production. Fred, are you confident that speeding GP's by 100% is more valuable than 2 food for growth and the hammers that brings?

It's hard to evaluate because we are comparing apples and pears. Saving a few turns on a settler compared to saving a few turns on Biology. I prefer to speed tech rather than the settler. Building the last settler using slavery could be critical because it relates to the date where we switch to Caste but we are not there yet so it's too early to be MM'ing for this case. I would like to see Moscow working the rice tile so that we get more hammers from the food due to bureaucracy. This also means that Moscow can build most of our remaining settlers. My suggestion would be to start hiring scientists as soon as St. Pete is working all resource tiles i.e. so that we never work unimproved tiles there.

Agree with CP that we don't have to bulb Gunpowder immediately and can continue on PP for a while. And yes, we can cancel a resource deal when it expires without any diplomatic problems.

 

[leif erikson]

It's hard to evaluate because we are comparing apples and pears. Saving a few turns on a settler compared to saving a few turns on Biology. I prefer to speed tech rather than the settler. Building the last settler using slavery could be critical because it relates to the date where we switch to Caste but we are not there yet so it's too early to be MM'ing for this case. I would like to see Moscow working the rice tile so that we get more hammers from the food due to bureaucracy. This also means that Moscow can build most of our remaining settlers. My suggestion would be to start hiring scientists as soon as St. Pete is working all resource tiles i.e. so that we never work unimproved tiles there.

OK, I've got all this.

As Chemistry is essential to our reaching Biology, I checked the Great People tech preference list HERE. What I think I see is that we can use an Engineer if we have Gunpowder or a Scientist if we have Printing Press. I believe the Engineer yields more beakers?

Agree with CP that we don't have to bulb Gunpowder immediately and can continue on PP for a while. And yes, we can cancel a resource deal when it expires without any diplomatic problems.

In holding the Great Engineer, is our hope that we may be able to trade for Gunpowder using Printing Press, as it is worth more Beakers? Then we have the Great Engineer to bulb Chemistry?

Hope I have some time this evening to start, in say 6 or so hours. Unless there are objections.

 

[Frederiksberg]

Go ahead

 

[leif erikson]

Played up to the start of the sixth turn. May have gotten hood-winked by G as he is moving a Worker and a Great Artist towards Bmbay and I don't think I can stop him.

The log thus far:
Turn 46 – 1515 AD
Assign Citizen from Moscow to work Rice tile.
MM St. Pete to work all improved tiles.
LB in Moscow moves to St. Pete.
Worker completes chop near Orange City.
Sail Caravel towards China, out of reach of G’s Caravel.
Change production in Moscow to Culture.
Change production in Horse City to Work Boat.
Try to sell our Map, no one is interested.

IBT
G grows a Great Artist in Delhi.
We produce a Settler in St. Pete and continue with National Epic.
Moscow grows to size 7.
A Barb Galley shows itself near our southern Warrior.

G’s Caravel gives chase to our Caravel.
A LB moves out of Delhi headed for Bombay.

Turn 47 – 1520 AD
G’s Galley and Worker remain in Delhi.
Explorer moves towards Delhi.
Move Caravel north into Chinese territory.
Knight moves north to forested Plains Hill to block LB.
LB and WE remain together in place.
Land LB off of Galley and all he sees is more ice.

IBT
We get a Great Engineer in Moscow.
The borders of Moscow expand.
Delhi’s borders also expanded.
Churchill also gets a Great Engineer.
Hooray, Christianity spreads to Moscow.
G’s LB moves NE to challenge our Settler.
All of G’s other units remain in Delhi.

Turn 48 – 1525 AD
Move LB and Knight to cover Settler, hope to pick off G’s LB if it heads to pillage our Ivory.
Put Great Engineer to sleep in Moscow.
Sail Caravel back into channel area near St. Pete.
Change build in Moscow to Work Boat.
Pop-rush Caravel in Orange City for 1-pop.
Change civics to Pacifism.

IBT
Another LB heads out of Moscow to the NE.
The initial LB seems headed for Bombay.

Turn 49 – 1530 AD
G’s Galley, Great Artist and Worker remain in Delhi.
Move Settler, LB and Knight SW.
Move We and LB onto Plains Hill to the NE.
Explorer can now overwatch Delhi.
Run our Caravel over to recon Iron site north of Delhi.

IBT
Novgorod’s borders expand, start a LB
Orange City produces a Caravel => Work Boat.
G’s LB enters Bombay.

Turn 50 – 1535 AD
G built a Trebuchet in Delhi. Current units in Delhi include 4-LB’s a Great Artist and a Galley. His worker moved 1-tile north and is unprotected, roading a Forest tile.
We gain 5 Gold from Churchill, Roosevelt and De Gaulle for our Map.
Gift Iron to De Gaulle.
Change build in Novgorod to Warrior.

IBT
Horse City Work Boat => Worker.
Christianity spreads to Horse City.
G sent his Worker south covered by his Great Artist?
He sent a Treb east and a LB NE.
G built a Cat in Bombay and sent one of his LB’s in Bombay SW

Turn 51 – 1540 AD
Move Caravel to recon Iron City site.
Move WE and LB SW
Move LB with Settler west.
Move Worker under Knight. And Settler towards Iron City site.
Move second Worker headed for Iron City site back towards St. Pete.
Hire a Scientist in St. Pete as it grew IBT.

IBT
Moscow Work Boat=> Work Boat.

Turn 52 – 1545 AD
Found Rostov north of Delhi and start Culture

Save and post for comment.

 

[Grover22]

Hi guys,

I'm going to retire from the team, if that's ok. I have a busy month or two coming up, and I've gotten hopelessly behind in my monitoring.

Good luck to you all, and thanks for welcoming me to the team.

 

[leif erikson]

Hi guys,

I'm going to retire from the team, if that's ok. I have a busy month or two coming up, and I've gotten hopelessly behind in my monitoring.

Good luck to you all, and thanks for welcoming me to the team.

Everyone needs a break once in a while. And that darn RL comes after you sometimes.

Please return when you are able. Thanks for joining us.

 

[Mad Professor]

I grabbed a copy of that interim save you posted Lief. Will try to look at it soon.

Sorry to see you go Grover. Keep an eye on us as much as you can anyhow huh?

 

[leif erikson]

Realized this morning that Moscow's production needs to be set to Settler and whipped next turn.

 

[Cactus Pete]

Nice work with the caravels, leif.

Greatly fear that G's GA will unleash a culture bomb in Bombay that will take multiple useful tiles away from both SP and Moscow. Don't see any good way to stop it, unless signing a peace treaty might cause G to use the GA for another purpose.

 

[Frederiksberg]

May have gotten hood-winked by G as he is moving a Worker and a Great Artist towards Bmbay and I don't think I can stop him.

We could move the longbow and WE next to the hill outside Bombay. If we are lucky Gandhi will move GA and worker there and cover with a longbow thus we at least get a shot at them. We probably want peace soon so that our work boat can sail safely to Rostov. We may soon be in a situation where we must hire artists in some of our cities to combat Indian culture. Getting 2nd cultural expansion fast is important so that our cities start getting the bonus +20 cpt in the FC.