LowtherCastle
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Does Justy already have Theology?
SGOTM 11 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Yep. I totally missed that... Looks like he got it 6t ago.
Hi guys 
Just managed to skim those posts but no chance to participate without a save 
Something that caught my attention:
From what I can tell we're doing great. Our graph really is funny
I like all the whipping but I must say I'm not so sure we can get buddhism spread so soon to have zara (or others) to convert before theo. Looking foreward to get the circumnavigation 
Good Luck mdy
PS: I'm glad the general tone in the posts got friendlier again
Just managed to skim those posts but no chance to participate without a save Something that caught my attention:shyuhe said:
From what I can tell we're doing great. Our graph really is funny
I like all the whipping but I must say I'm not so sure we can get buddhism spread so soon to have zara (or others) to convert before theo. Looking foreward to get the circumnavigation Good Luck mdy
PS: I'm glad the general tone in the posts got friendlier again
I guess Theocracy will render our Buddhist spam ideas moot fairly soon. We may still have an opening to convert Toku? I think that would be an excellent move, but mdy (at least) disagrees... Justinian should be reasonably safe. He'd need Christian auto-spread to his capital in the next few turns to fall out of Buddhism - doesn't seem very likely. Not like we can do anything about that.
@mysty,
Hope they let you watch some football in the army.
Told ya Spain would choke...
@mysty,
Hope they let you watch some football in the army.
Told ya Spain would choke...Spoiler :
shyuhe
Deity
We can gift missionaries and hope they use them to spread the religion even while in theocracy.
How does the "no non-state religion spread" actually work? Can't remember it coming up, but then I haven't done much religion spamming in AI lands in recent memory...
Foreign missionaries can't spread other religions than their state religion to them, and only the state religion can autospread. Their own missionaries (and gifted) can still spread anything they like. In BtS AIs always use gifted missionaries.
shyuhe
Deity
Other civs cannot spread non-state religion in a civ in theocracy but the host civ can still spread any religion it wants within its borders. I'm pretty sure they didn't change this part of the code in 3.19 - you can still get religion spread by missionary gifting. I can confirm with a test though.
I've played till Literature. No one else has researched either Literature or Drama next so we can easily afford to delay Music.
Unfortunately Japan has taken the Jewish Holy City from Saladin, so we can forget about converting him to buddishm. I bribed Japan with currency to make peace with Saladin to stop him being overrun. Afterwards Japan declared war on Justin, who then bribed Zara into war as well. Japan has now fallen to annoyed with us as I refused to be bribed into war with Saladin, and we have picked up another religion modifier. We can probably get another +2 by gifting him aesthetics though.
It occurs to me that if either Justin or Mehemed founded Islam it could screw up our diplomacy plans (only Justin can research it immediately). Perhaps we should beeline Divine Right to prevent this?
As we have gold it might be worth trying to build the Shedong Pow in Bombay. Not having to force whoever built it into revolt prior to the U.N. vote could save us a couple of turns as we would not need to build up the necessary espionage, and with the 2 GM plan we probably won't gain anything like that from building wealth there. We probably still have good odds on getting it.
Unfortunately Japan has taken the Jewish Holy City from Saladin, so we can forget about converting him to buddishm. I bribed Japan with currency to make peace with Saladin to stop him being overrun. Afterwards Japan declared war on Justin, who then bribed Zara into war as well. Japan has now fallen to annoyed with us as I refused to be bribed into war with Saladin, and we have picked up another religion modifier. We can probably get another +2 by gifting him aesthetics though.
It occurs to me that if either Justin or Mehemed founded Islam it could screw up our diplomacy plans (only Justin can research it immediately). Perhaps we should beeline Divine Right to prevent this?
As we have gold it might be worth trying to build the Shedong Pow in Bombay. Not having to force whoever built it into revolt prior to the U.N. vote could save us a couple of turns as we would not need to build up the necessary espionage, and with the 2 GM plan we probably won't gain anything like that from building wealth there. We probably still have good odds on getting it.
Spoiler :
shyuhe
Deity
Took a look at the save. We need to start spreading Buddhism ASAP, especially to 2-fish, marble, and probably rice. Then we can swap into Buddhism and start accumulating shared religion modifiers.
LowtherCastle
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mdy, do you think you could provide a more detailed turnset write-up? Any major events, what's completed, where we stand on various things, such as our plans for exploring to the west, spreading Buddhism, etc.?
Ivory is 1T away from completing the Maori, after which it should be able to build a missionary every 4T.
Delhi has built Oxford, and continued with the market. An engineer has been hired and we are 9T away from generating a GP there. We have spread Buddishm. Maybe we should build a monastry there next to increase the rate at which we can spread Buddishm?
Two fish has grown to size 12, will grow to sixe 13 in 10 turns. We have hired 7 merchants, and are building the National Epic. Estimated completion date T+9. Estimated GM date T+13.
Rice city has built the spy and the trieme can be completed next turn.
Marble has been building wealth, and will be in a position to hire 5 scientists on T+5.
Sugar city is building a forge.
Oasis has built a galley which is heading East, and is continuing building the lighthouse.
Bombay has built a chariot which has been sent to scout for the galley. A barracks has been built and we are two turns away from another chariot to spy on the developments of the war.
We have traded maps with Justin, to reveal 2 grassland tiles on the island to the East.
Justin had 2 cities in Buddishm, 2 in Hinduism, and 1 in Christianity when we traded maps, fortunately he has now adopted theocracy so we should be O.K. as long as he does not found Islam.
Techs discovered: Aesthetics, Literature. No other civ is in a position to research music at the moment, though Zara is scheduled to get drama on T+9.
Unfortunately Japan has taken the Jewish Holy City from Saladin, so we can forget about converting him to buddishm. I bribed Japan with currency to make peace with Saladin to stop him being overrun. Afterwards Japan declared war on Justin, who then bribed Zara into war as well. Japan has now fallen to annoyed with us as I refused to be bribed into war with Saladin, and we have picked up another religion modifier. We can probably get another +2 by gifting him aesthetics though.
Delhi has built Oxford, and continued with the market. An engineer has been hired and we are 9T away from generating a GP there. We have spread Buddishm. Maybe we should build a monastry there next to increase the rate at which we can spread Buddishm?
Two fish has grown to size 12, will grow to sixe 13 in 10 turns. We have hired 7 merchants, and are building the National Epic. Estimated completion date T+9. Estimated GM date T+13.
Rice city has built the spy and the trieme can be completed next turn.
Marble has been building wealth, and will be in a position to hire 5 scientists on T+5.
Sugar city is building a forge.
Oasis has built a galley which is heading East, and is continuing building the lighthouse.
Bombay has built a chariot which has been sent to scout for the galley. A barracks has been built and we are two turns away from another chariot to spy on the developments of the war.
We have traded maps with Justin, to reveal 2 grassland tiles on the island to the East.
Justin had 2 cities in Buddishm, 2 in Hinduism, and 1 in Christianity when we traded maps, fortunately he has now adopted theocracy so we should be O.K. as long as he does not found Islam.
Techs discovered: Aesthetics, Literature. No other civ is in a position to research music at the moment, though Zara is scheduled to get drama on T+9.
Unfortunately Japan has taken the Jewish Holy City from Saladin, so we can forget about converting him to buddishm. I bribed Japan with currency to make peace with Saladin to stop him being overrun. Afterwards Japan declared war on Justin, who then bribed Zara into war as well. Japan has now fallen to annoyed with us as I refused to be bribed into war with Saladin, and we have picked up another religion modifier. We can probably get another +2 by gifting him aesthetics though.
Everything's looking good, mdy. 
I thought you'd play a bit further...
Justinian might get Lit even before Zara gets Drama. I'm ok with holding off on Music for a while, just not convinced we'll get to PP before we need to switch back. Machinery's not really useful otherwise. Looks like Music's about 3-4t, so we should maybe make sure we have that much savings for when someone unlocks it.
It's unfortunate that we're exposed at Pataliputra. Since we're already kinda planning to DOW Saladin at some point, we wouldn't really need to take diplo hits on it otherwise...
I think grass farms > plain farms in Bombay. Also, I think we could maybe slow down Delhi's economy a touch in favour of spamming out a few missionaries. I guess it's not necessary with Ivory set to go?
First priority is getting galley/spy/trireme going. One thought I had: should we maybe send our axe, since we have an extra spot on the galley anyway? If the barbs only have classical units, we may get 10 XP by just fortifying on a forested hill or something.
We still need a couple of MP units. We should send the extra Ivory warrior back to mainland. Should we maybe gift Zara our copper for 10t at some point soon?
Zara's got 120g... Give him COL? Most AIs have it, and we still don't have a trade diplo bonus with him.
I thought you'd play a bit further...Justinian might get Lit even before Zara gets Drama. I'm ok with holding off on Music for a while, just not convinced we'll get to PP before we need to switch back. Machinery's not really useful otherwise. Looks like Music's about 3-4t, so we should maybe make sure we have that much savings for when someone unlocks it.
It's unfortunate that we're exposed at Pataliputra. Since we're already kinda planning to DOW Saladin at some point, we wouldn't really need to take diplo hits on it otherwise...
I think grass farms > plain farms in Bombay. Also, I think we could maybe slow down Delhi's economy a touch in favour of spamming out a few missionaries. I guess it's not necessary with Ivory set to go?
First priority is getting galley/spy/trireme going. One thought I had: should we maybe send our axe, since we have an extra spot on the galley anyway? If the barbs only have classical units, we may get 10 XP by just fortifying on a forested hill or something.
We still need a couple of MP units. We should send the extra Ivory warrior back to mainland. Should we maybe gift Zara our copper for 10t at some point soon?
Zara's got 120g... Give him COL? Most AIs have it, and we still don't have a trade diplo bonus with him.
I was planning on playing further, but there was some uncertainty in the team about whether to get Music next, I was also worried that Justin might found Islam if we didn't research divine right himself. It also occurred to me that building the S.P might be possible and make our life easier in the longer term, with 2 great merchants the loss of wealth should not be a problem, so I thought I better stop at literature.
If we can get Zara/Justin/Izzy/Mehemed voting for us there should be no need to DOW Saladin. I thought that axe was still being used for fogbusting, if it is no longer needed I agree with moving it to the barbs continent.
We can get the buddist monastry in 6 turns, and build a missionary every 4.5 turns after that without slowing own our economy there. Given that we have Oxford there I think that would be a mistake.
I agree that we want grass farms in Bombay, not plains. The worker there has benn building that farm for 1T to maximise worker efficiency while moving to a grass tile to the south.
I agree with moving one of our warriors back from the ivory island. We can sell our copper to Saladin for 3GPT to build a couple of warrior for military police.
Trading COL to Zara might be a mistake, we don't want him getting access to Theocracy before we can convert him to buddishm. Giving him COL is means there is one fewer tech for him to research.
If we can get Zara/Justin/Izzy/Mehemed voting for us there should be no need to DOW Saladin. I thought that axe was still being used for fogbusting, if it is no longer needed I agree with moving it to the barbs continent.
We can get the buddist monastry in 6 turns, and build a missionary every 4.5 turns after that without slowing own our economy there. Given that we have Oxford there I think that would be a mistake.
I agree that we want grass farms in Bombay, not plains. The worker there has benn building that farm for 1T to maximise worker efficiency while moving to a grass tile to the south.
I agree with moving one of our warriors back from the ivory island. We can sell our copper to Saladin for 3GPT to build a couple of warrior for military police.
Trading COL to Zara might be a mistake, we don't want him getting access to Theocracy before we can convert him to buddishm. Giving him COL is means there is one fewer tech for him to research.
shyuhe
Deity
I like selling copper to build a few more MP warriors - they can't hurt.
I'd go ahead and pick up music before moving on to printing press (believe we need machinery for that?). I don't see the need to risk losing the GA and we have the gold for now.
I don't think S. Paya will help us. The religious civs on this map love theocracy, so they'll get their hands on it sooner or later. Divine Right is an interesting tech, but I don't think it's worth if. If we fully spam Buddhism into Justinian, we can still convert him out of his holy city religion (I think).
I'd go ahead and pick up music before moving on to printing press (believe we need machinery for that?). I don't see the need to risk losing the GA and we have the gold for now.
I don't think S. Paya will help us. The religious civs on this map love theocracy, so they'll get their hands on it sooner or later. Divine Right is an interesting tech, but I don't think it's worth if. If we fully spam Buddhism into Justinian, we can still convert him out of his holy city religion (I think).
DR: 
Interesting idea, but I really hate wasting beakers on that. If he did found it, what are the options exactly? Would a full-on Buddhist spam work?
Axe: I forgot what it was up to. Yeah, let's leave it to fogbust.
Saladin's been sitting on that 3 gpt for some time. I assumed we don't wanna trade with him, 'cause everyone hates his guts.
Zara doesn't need COL for Theo. Or, do you mean that it's a higher priority tech for him? His tech path's been kinda odd... The trade I suggested isn't so great, though. Let's forget it.
I guess I'm still for Music, as before. We should be able to out-tech anyone who gets Lit or Drama, but I don't see much of a point risking it for a chance at what's basically a few extra turns of PP.
Interesting idea, but I really hate wasting beakers on that. If he did found it, what are the options exactly? Would a full-on Buddhist spam work?Axe: I forgot what it was up to. Yeah, let's leave it to fogbust.
Saladin's been sitting on that 3 gpt for some time. I assumed we don't wanna trade with him, 'cause everyone hates his guts.
Zara doesn't need COL for Theo. Or, do you mean that it's a higher priority tech for him? His tech path's been kinda odd... The trade I suggested isn't so great, though. Let's forget it.
I guess I'm still for Music, as before. We should be able to out-tech anyone who gets Lit or Drama, but I don't see much of a point risking it for a chance at what's basically a few extra turns of PP.
LowtherCastle
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Thanks, mdy. If that silk city is still barbarian I would strongly consider beelining machinery (before Music if possible) while building a RAX and prebuilding an axe->mace somewhere (Bombay?). I haven't checked the odds, but I wouldn't be surprised if a 3XP mace could take that city alone. Use the first promotion to heal after the first kill, then the second after the second kill. That city is not just for the silks but also for the population. This is a freebie. Let's go for it if possible. Also gives us another shot at the 10XP.
I wouldn't worry about Schwegadon. Beeline Mass Media. Win the Gold.
Do we want Zara to build axes/spearmen? We could also trade the copper to Mehmed.
The galley/spy could set off ahead of the trireme if the chariot is already out there scouting. How many tiles are we from circumnavigating? Just one tile?
If we want to garrison an axe near the barbs on a hill, then maybe send the chariot to join him. THe chariot can attack a barb axe, if needed, our axe will win against all the other barb attackers (if not some killer stack).
I wouldn't worry about Schwegadon. Beeline Mass Media. Win the Gold.
Do we want Zara to build axes/spearmen? We could also trade the copper to Mehmed.
The galley/spy could set off ahead of the trireme if the chariot is already out there scouting. How many tiles are we from circumnavigating? Just one tile?
If we want to garrison an axe near the barbs on a hill, then maybe send the chariot to join him. THe chariot can attack a barb axe, if needed, our axe will win against all the other barb attackers (if not some killer stack).
shyuhe
Deity
The silk barb city is Mehmed's.
Good point about Zara - let's sell it to Mehmed.
Good point about Zara - let's sell it to Mehmed.
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