SGOTM 12 - One Short Straw

[LowtherCastle]

I agree with everything bcool suggested.

Flipping Roosy to FM should cost less than 144ep. That's cheap as dirt, even if we did it only for our trade routes. But we want to do it to allow us to spread sushi to Washington, his best hammer city. We can't do this when he's in Mercantilism and we can't do it with closed borders, so please do't close bordrs with Washington. If it gets to that point, please pause and we'll examine our options.

Perhaps we should have at least one more Sushi Exec spammer. Bahamas would be good for the islands. You would need to set up a galley transport for the exec to get there and then to transport the execs around. Where else could we spam execs? Rheims?

We also haven't discussed where to spread Sushi to, other than Moscow-GP Farm-Siberia. I'd like to get one to Roosy/Washington pretty quickly. One for Gandhi wouldn't hurt either, though his production is pathetic, but nonetheless, it couldn't really hurt. Otherwise, I guess spread it to our hammer cities first so they can spam more. I'm not really sure what the best logic is. Hammer City needs one for sure.

I'd leave a treb with the two muskets at Marseilles to keep the defenses at 0%. We surely have a treb to spare for that.

 

[Mitchum]

If we are running 0% research slider don't we want to whip the banks as early as possible (not just for WS prerequisites)?

I captured all of your comments. Whipping the banks as soon as the Kremlin is done sounds like a great idea! The extra 50% gold shouldn't hurt us too much.

 

[Mitchum]

Flipping Roosy to FM should cost less than 144ep. That's cheap as dirt, even if we did it only for our trade routes. But we want to do it to allow us to spread sushi to Washington, his best hammer city. We can't do this when he's in Mercantilism and we can't do it with closed borders, so please do't close bordrs with Washington. If it gets to that point, please pause and we'll examine our options.

I think getting an executive to Roosevelt will happen after my turnset, but I'm not sure. Should we force him to FM now and then again once we have an executive near him if he happened to change back?

Perhaps we should have at least one more Sushi Exec spammer. Bahamas would be good for the islands. You would need to set up a galley transport for the exec to get there and then to transport the execs around. Where else could we spam execs? Rheims?

OK, so the first executive from GP Farm will go to Roosevelt and the first one from Siberia will go to Bahamas.

We also haven't discussed where to spread Sushi to, other than Moscow-GP Farm-Siberia. I'd like to get one to Roosy/Washington pretty quickly. One for Gandhi wouldn't hurt either, though his production is pathetic, but nonetheless, it couldn't really hurt. Otherwise, I guess spread it to our hammer cities first so they can spam more. I'm not really sure what the best logic is. Hammer City needs one for sure.

How about Moscow - GP Farm - Siberia - Roosevelt - Bahamas - Hammer City. That should take us to the end of my turnset, I think.

I'd leave a treb with the two muskets at Marseilles to keep the defenses at 0%. We surely have a treb to spare for that.

OK. I was keeping the stack of muskets at Marseilles-2W so that they could cover both Orleans and Rheims. If I do bombard Marseilles every few turns, the treb would need 2 muskets for protection, I think. I'll try to work this in. The defenses are only at 2% right now and I don't expect them to rise too quickly.

 

[babybluepants]

We also haven't discussed where to spread Sushi to, other than Moscow-GP Farm-Siberia. I'd like to get one to Roosy/Washington pretty quickly. One for Gandhi wouldn't hurt either, though his production is pathetic, but nonetheless, it couldn't really hurt. Otherwise, I guess spread it to our hammer cities first so they can spam more. I'm not really sure what the best logic is. Hammer City needs one for sure.

I think that depends a bit on how long we expect to run Slavery. Initially we were talking a couple of 5t spells b/w GA's, but it sounds like longish period now.

It's maybe counter-intuitive, but new cities (like Hammer City) benefit proportionally much more than fully developed cities. Without Mining Inc., though, we need Slavery to use that benefit.

Bahamas and/or Bermuda should get it quickly, and spam islands, for one. And galley transport set up somehow, as LC suggested.

Edit: xpost w Mitchum

Edit2: yeah, plan's good. Go ahead, Mitchum.

 

[mdy]

The plan looks good to me.

 

[Mitchum]

OK, I'm starting now. I won't revolt Roosevelt to FM until after we have stolen Corporations.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Should we force him to FM now and then again once we have an executive near him if he happened to change back?

Actually I don't really know how much it gains us in 5t, but I imagine it's good bang for our EP buck. I think we should probably try it. Even if he'll have RepParts done soon, I suppose it pays off, no?

OK, so the first executive from GP Farm will go to Roosevelt and the first one from Siberia will go to Bahamas.



How about Moscow - GP Farm - Siberia - Roosevelt - Bahamas - Hammer City. That should take us to the end of my turnset, I think.

Well, I wouldnt' prioritize Roosy quite that high, I don't think. I'd get one to our spammers first, such as Bahamas and Rheims. Plus Hammer CIty is very high priority. Then we can spread it around a bit.


Good luck MItchum! May the Force be with you!

 

[bcool]

I won't revolt Roosevelt to FM until after we have stolen Corporations.

Also depends on what he is researching. I wouldn't do this before stealing RP if he is researching that.
I would do it close to the time the executive is ready to cross borders with a 50% espionage bonus.

Spy probably should start hiking back to Vlad too after steal.

 

[bcool]

Ah, switching him to FM would give us trade routes with him giving us 20% discount on corp steal!

Would this save more than it costs?

 

[LowtherCastle]

Ah, switching him to FM would give us trade routes with him giving us 20% discount on corp steal!

Would this save more than it costs?

At 50% it does slightly, and of course, that's on top of all the other gains. Too bad we didn't think of that before Mitchum started...

Next time...

BUt there's a problem. Only 75% odds or something like that in Troy and we wouldn't want to use our Vlad spy for that.

 

[bcool]

and we don't have 50% bonus on Troy spies so we would have to delay corp steal, probably not worth it in the end.

 

[babybluepants]

Won't Roosevelt wanna keep switching back to Mercantilism, since its his fave civic? How will that work for our corp spread? Keep switching him back?

 

[bcool]

Once we spread him one sushi city he will spread it for us. And we could keep switching him back especially if we want to steal more techs from him.

 

[LowtherCastle]

He can spread it to himself while in Mercantilism. We just wouldn't get any benefits in Fish. The big benefit, though, would be having it spread to his other cities for free when we capture them. Anyway, after we DoW him, he's not going to open borders with us again, I don't think.

 

[LowtherCastle]

and we don't have 50% bonus on Troy spies so we would have to delay corp steal, probably not worth it in the end.

Exactly. We don't want to risk delaying the theft of Corporation.

 

[LowtherCastle]

Well, now that we have some "down time," we can talk about hte graphs. I bet teams are kind of amazed, looking at the Ducks' graphs. There are something else, aren't they? Especially that culture graph.

It's also interesting how intertwined we are with them on the score graph. I wonder if they're somehow significantly ahead of us.

 

[babybluepants]

They were consistently ahead of us in culture all game. To me that means faster initial expansion (cities 3-8 or so). The graphs are too identical (all 3 graphs), for them to be significantly ahead. I can see them out-pacing us in tech over the last 30-40t, since we focussed on pretty much everything else to its detriment. It's hard for them to out-pace us in tech+ep, though. The way they could be ahead is if they spent less GA time, for instance.

The surprising thing is their power in late game. 3,000,000 soldiers is a massive Inf/Arty army in my experience (Taxman game, for instance), unless the pop is so huge from Sushi it throws everything off.

 

[bcool]

I'm thinking we are starting Sushi ~10 turns earlier than they did.

They probably were more prepared for it, it will be interesting to see where they were and if we made a mistake pushing the start of Sushi before Wall Street. I suspect no, but it is going to hurt our research short term.

I think we are playing the espionage game pretty darn well. Hard to imagine what they are doing that we aren't.

I think they must have more seafood resources though. I'm wondering when we should get astronomy and settle/clean some of the islands we have discovered. It is going to take a while to send workers out and clean up those astronomy only reachable islands...

Looks like they started their last war ~1700 AD. So launching by 1800 AD?

I'm wondering if clean up is limiting factor or researching to Space is...

 

[Mitchum]

I'm still on T196 and will steal Corporations next turn. Should I try to convert Roosevelt to FM?

I'd hate to do it and have both of our spies fail on staling Corporations though...

BTW, Medicine by T197 will be tough. Not getting failed gold is hurting us. I have to run the slider at 20%.

Should I sell Gandhi Banking (or Nationalism or Chemistry) for his 140 gold? That should help quite a bit.

 

[mdy]

The Ducks didn't overtake us in culture until around 125 A.D.- though this may be due to them building more wonders than us (like they did in the last game). With very similar scores they could hardly be significantly ahead of us in both REX and tech.

That big culture spike can only really be explained by founding Sid's at that time (unless may be they ran the culture slider very high to combat WW-but it is very difficult to see how it could be that big a problem for them.) So we should at least found this corp before them.