SGOTM 12 - Spooks

[WackenOpenAir]

Not taking Moscow is ok with me, but i think a 1000s prebuild really is prefered. Unless we are gonna make new mines, paris will not have 100 spt.

 

[Andronicus]

Not taking Moscow is ok with me, but i think a 1000s prebuild really is prefered. Unless we are gonna make new mines, paris will not have 100 spt.

In that case we need another 4 cities - that's 2 more AI to destroy - any suggestion ?


Maybe Zulu allying Germans - let Germany wear Zulu stacks then land force from the south. Forces in southern continent could head there after finished there
I think Paul mentioned America, certainly they dont seem too pleased with us and are a threat to Paris. Its not far from Zulu to Americans, or from southern continent .

Alternatively, Mayans and Incans are an option too, the same attack force could go strait from one to the other.

We also need a force ready for when we take Monguls (if thats the way to go). Looks like our forces are gonna clock up some frequent flyer points .

 

[WackenOpenAir]

We are sending luxes to carthage for 10 more turns. No conquest there.

I guess i'll just drop of the workers and let them be booted to where we need them.

We have 17 turns deal to go with America and 15 with mongols.

Inca, Maya, Zulu, Celt and Persia are our only options really.

I guess i have to start with Inca and Maya then. If i could make a ROP with Russia (or i conquer them), that would help get the forces there.

Maya+Inca then Carthage, then America would be enough for the palace.

 

[Paul#42]

We are sending luxes to carthage for 10 more turns. No conquest there.

I just did not want to offer them guns...
Sorry.

Maybe we give them a boot order when they enter our territory on their way back?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

For that to happen, they first need to get in our territory and then, they actually need to declare. If it so happens, i will make some demands and try. If not, i will not delay our troops more than needed and send them over.

 

[killercane]

Do we need to take Moscow?
900 shield palace is sufficient for Paris's UN pre-build- thats 30 cities
Carthage (4)) and Monguls (3) provide that
This would leave Russia avail for change of age freebie (you never know, all other scientific civs could get non fission and Russia gets it)
Russia would be good UN opponent if after researching to modern age and building UN we then gift southern continent to Russia. This should give it sufficient pop to ensure it is UN opponent (largest pop AI is opponent). Then just a matter of dow the turn before elections and MA everyone against them. Since no other AI on southern continent (assuming we have eliminated Carthage) Russian cities cannot be taken in inter turn (as they would be if we gifted Mongul cities for example) ensuring they remain our UN opponent

Peace ASAP with Russia would also free up forces to eliminate Carthage quicker.
Re Carthage forces - there appears to be a trail of them heading east ? barb camp in the fog SE of Sparta. 14 units in all - half are NMs. This would appear to be opportune as easier to kill them in the open than fortified in cities. Unfortunately I dont see us being able to take all 4 cities whilst avoiding fighting these forces.

I think we would lose the shields of our prebuild by going to a lower shield Palace prebuild when we gift those cities. This would happen before we switched over to the UN.

I dont think we need to fight the stacks of carthage, leave 2 armies at Athens and Sparta. They will not attack. This point is moot though, since we must wait ten more turns.

I do not like attacking Zulu or Germany, since they have been unmolested and will vote for us as long as we give into all demands. Since Carthage is off the table I think the troops need to go up to Inca/Maya/England.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I feel like going for the zulu after all. Maya/Inca hurt both orleans, trontheim, portugal and spain.

Zulu and celts hurt nothing. America and Carthage only little.

Therefore, i think it may be good to take Zulu first. Everyone seems reasonably happy with us anyway, won't it be easy to get the votes regardless of whom we leave for the end ?

I will be playing soon.

 

[Paul#42]

I think we would lose the shields of our prebuild by going to a lower shield Palace prebuild when we gift those cities. This would happen before we switched over to the UN.

Not necessarily.

If all is well-timed, we should have 899 shields accumulated, research the final IA tech, take our free tech, switch to TBP on the message of our free tech, <F4> gift & trade till we got Fission, <F1> switch prebuild to UN, <F4> gift some towns to Russia (make sure they are empty!), dow them, ally everyone else and hit escape. After all cities' builds are done, we get the message of the UN vote and we are done.

Almost too easy...
Anything I overlooked?

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I played half of it.

Turn 0:
Thebes swiches to Galleon and disbands an MI for that.
Paris swiches to Galleon.
Orleans Drafts and Disbands 2 citizens for the Marketplace.
Mecca swiches to Market.
N. Falls, Medina, Sparta, Athens: whip Granary.
All other towns swich build to Granary.

Workers from mountain near Bombay start planting a forest.

916 science, -102gpt.

Turn 1:
7gpt from Germany for some luxes.
12gpt from America for Printing Press.

Mecca: Market - Hospital.
Sparta: Granary - Lib.
Athens: Granary - Lib.
St. Peter: Granary - Lib.
Thebes, N. Falls, Medina, Osaka: Wealth.

Join 6 in Teoti and 5 in Osaka.
Disband reg knight in Kyoto.
Disband Galleon in Kyoto.
Disband 2 reg knight in Salamanca.
Disband reg knight in Sparta.
Disband greek treb in Sparta.
Leader rush Hospital in Mecca.

945 science, -46gpt.

Turn 2:
Paris: Galleon - Galleon.
Mecca: Wealth.
Mecca drafts to be size 6. Draft send to Sparta.
Disband sword in Salamanca.
Forest cut for Bombay.

954 science, -45 gpt.

Turn 3:
peace with Russia. They only have 1 slave to offer.

Delhi: Granary - Galleon.

Another Forest plant for Bombay.
2 more worker joins in Osaka.
2 workers into Thebes.
Draft in Mecca.

956 science, -36gpt.

Turn 4:
Paris: Galleon - Factory.
Teno: Wealth.

1 more worker in Osaka. It is maxed out at 22.
Disband MI in Sparta.
Draft mecca.

It sounds pretty stupid, but our troops on southland are not going anywhere.
With the lack of nearby boats, bringing them anywhere will take longer than the deal with Carthage. So we wait.

936 science, -21gpt.

Turn 5:
Rep. Parts ready. Start Sci meth.
Bombay: Granary - Explorer.
Teoti: Wealth.
Draft Mecca.
Sell Electricity around for some pennies and 2 gpt from Ottomans.
176 gold remaining.

967 science, -32gpt.

Turn 6:
Rush court in Lisbon to get it below 7.
Rush Market in Oporto to get it below 7.
Draft in Mecca and medine to keep them below 7.

1016 science, -46gpt.


The gpt deficit rising again is because i used taxmen last turns and now only scientists again. Also, unit support is temporarily rising because of drafted units that will be disbanded in 2 turns. We pay 30 gpt to unit support now. The building upkeep has risen a lot though and will rise some more.

A bunch of cities are dying to grow beyond size 6. I just have to make do now until we can conquer now small towns from carthage and the work is done so that we can join some workers.

Research is on scedual though. Rep.parts is done in 5. and Sci meth is on scedual for 4 turns already. After this, the Corporation will be next. This is also 4k, so we will have some slack there and we will be able to use some taxmen again. Everything is gonna fit just fine.

Just a little break now, i will continue in an hour or so.

 

[Andronicus]

Not necessarily.

If all is well-timed, we should have 899 shields accumulated, research the final IA tech, take our free tech, switch to TBP on the message of our free tech, <F4> gift & trade till we got Fission, <F1> switch prebuild to UN, <F4> gift some towns to Russia (make sure they are empty!), dow them, ally everyone else and hit escape. After all cities' builds are done, we get the message of the UN vote and we are done.

Almost too easy...
Anything I overlooked?

Is there a delay between building UN and elections (similar to delay between elections) or do first elections occur immed? (my one and only diplo victory was with a captured UN which I had to wait for elections)

If it is immed then I think there may be a problem. Once in city screen I thought you could not go back to diplo (or other) screen.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

That is correct, but you can change builds in the F1 screen, you don't need to go to the city screen.

However, we'll first see if we can get the needed towns. I'm gonna do those last turns now

 

[killercane]

Not necessarily.

If all is well-timed, we should have 899 shields accumulated, research the final IA tech, take our free tech, switch to TBP on the message of our free tech, <F4> gift & trade till we got Fission, <F1> switch prebuild to UN, <F4> gift some towns to Russia (make sure they are empty!), dow them, ally everyone else and hit escape. After all cities' builds are done, we get the message of the UN vote and we are done.

Almost too easy...
Anything I overlooked?

Im with Andronicus, thought you couldnt change builds from F1 w/o going to the city screen. Once you go to the city screen you cannot go back to diplomacy. Unless there is some secret button combination I am missing.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

It is done.



Turn 7:
Sparta Library - Market.
Lisbon: Court - Hospital.
Oporto: market - Hospital.
Orleans: Hospital - Explorer.

1028 science, -43gpt.

Turn 8:
4 joins in Teno.
4 units drafted units disbanded in Sparta for Market.
Galleon disband in Madrid.
Galleon disband in Barca.

997 science, +8gpt. (only taxmen, no scientists)

Turn 9:
Scientific Method ready. Start The corporation.
Madrid: Granary - Library
Sparta: Market - Hospital
Workers arive at Trontheim, disband 2 Galleons in Trontheim.

1006 science, +15gpt.

Turn 10:
Completed some worker jobs.

Comments for next player:
The time is there to fight Carthage, you have units at your disposal in Sparta. Also 3 workers are there, you can use that to build 1 more railroad where it comes in handy.

Mecca and Medina have done a lot for Sparta with drafting. These towns are done drafting now. They are running out of happiness. They are currently on low food to keep them <7. That won't be needed anymore when you capture some Carthagian towns.

St peter, Salamanca and N.Falls won't need any more builds, they won't grow past size 12. They have only pop rushed a little. They can do some drafting for Athens and Sparta.

Athens and Sparta themselves can best do some pop rushing at size 5-6 now until we won't need the unit support, then they can do 1 turn growth at larger sizes.

The university in Orleans is the last build there. It is not worth pop rushing. Just let it complete slowly.

Slave stacks on JapTec, India, France are there to stay for polution. While there is no polution to clean, they can do forest planting and cutting for Portugese towns and Orleans. CA2 shows you what tiles are available.

Try to maintain 1 turn growth in the farms where possible. They can do one turn growth at size 5-6 and at size 9+. If you draft or pop rush, do it at these sizes. Making Population is our primary goal now.

The workers are almost done irrigating the world. Many can be joined the next turnset in southland and Spain. Just keep some around for the polution cleaning.

Tomorrow i will make a new list with available happiness for drafting in the towns and buildings needed.
I will also have a little look into the long term stuff to see when we should stop making workers in const and when we should stop growth and turn all food surpluss into specialists.

 

[Paul#42]

Impressive management, Wacken

I really don't know why granaries did not even come to my mind.
I guess I feel pressed to follow all thoroughly planned instructions so I don't develop own ideas while playing

Sorry for forcing you to be peaceful for the whole turnset.

The first UN election is held at the beginning of the turn after UN is built (see Gotm 32 Redbad's win: UN built in 1285, victory in 1290).
We can switch Paris to UN on the F1-screen (as Wacken stated). So the final turn of IA-research is the final turn of the game.

 

[Abegweit]

Im with Andronicus, thought you couldnt change builds from F1 w/o going to the city screen. Once you go to the city screen you cannot go back to diplomacy. Unless there is some secret button combination I am missing.

Right-click on the build.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I said the uni is the last build in Orleans. That was wrong, it can use a harbor first.

Trontheim needs a hospital first, then a university. Food will however not be in abundance here, so i think it should pop rush only if it reaches size 12 before the hospital is done.

In Oporto, just rush the Granary, then let it grow size 12. The remaining game is too short to invest in a hospital.

Paris is gonna need some mining. Our research is going beyond expectation, and we may win a turn. Mine for Paris to speed up ToE by 1 turn. Mine enough to handle some polution. If we happen to not win the turn, just lose one by changing builds Universal Suffrage.
Factory (t1)
Coal Plant (t5)
ToE (T13) (instead of t14 as it would be without mining)

Canstantinople should make workers for the rest of the game (each worker is a specialist for 3bpt, the city will have 2 turn growth, only getting 2 bpt when growing)

N. Falls, St. Peter, Salamanca. Can do some 1 turn drafts at size 7-6.

In Mecca, i have stopped drafting a little early, 2-3 more drafts could be done there for Athens.

If Medina joins in 2 workers to go from 7 to 9 at once, it can do 1 turn growth using water tiles for 10 turns and then turn the citizens from water tiles to scientists. Many workers are about to be obsolete. When joining them into cities, try to use them to bypass the 2 turn growth phase from size 7-9 in our cities. Avoid cities that will soon go to a slower growth cycle when they get bigger.

Sparta needs only to finish it's hospital. It can rush this itself.

Athens needs Library, Market, Hospital. Thats a total of 13-14 population. It can do 8 by itself, use the 2-3 from Mecca and maybe a few from Salamanca.

Barcelona can be used just for support, draft here to help Madrid and don't build a hospital in here.

Pyongyang could use some forest cutting help

4 boats are waiting north of the southern island. Bring these to where we should pickup the units for our next invasion. We have 31 turns to go, i think that is enough time to be selective on where we go conquer. I prefer to take the most remote civs so that corruption in our existing towns does not increase. Zulu then America ?

New citizens cost 30 food in a metro. 30 food can be turned into 45 science by using it for 15 scientists. So Metro's should stop growing 15 turns before the end and have all their pop turned into scientists. Towns should stop growing 10 turns before the end. Of course, this may change a little depending on the needs for the tech that is researched.
While growing, some farms will need micro management. As they grow every 2 or 3 turns, they will probably have extra food. So keep changing the number of specialists to make the growth work.

We can now try and continue research like this. Getting steel in 5 shouldn't be much of a problem. Refining probably won't be easy and i am not sure if we will make this. Maybe we need to exchange growth for science here, but we can't do that too much yet. 18 turns from now, when starting mass production, we are gonna focus only on science and no longer on any growth. This corresponds with the 15 turns before end i just came up with.
31 turns to go !

The Corporation 4000 - 3*1000
Steel 5600 - 5*1120
Refining 6400 - 5*1280
Combustion 6400 - 5*1280
Mass Prod 5600 - 4*1400
Mot Trans 5600 - 4*1400
Flight 7200 - 5*1440

Here the list of towns and their whipping: I think we should keep 1 extra happiness in each town for drafting in case of millitary emergency.

I don't think i have anything more to add. Abe is next.

 

[Andronicus]

Paris is gonna need some mining. Our research is going beyond expectation, and we may win a turn. Mine for Paris to speed up ToE by 1 turn. Mine exactly enough for that and no more so that if we fail to win that 1 turn, we can slow down the build again with a single irrigation.
Factory (t1)
Coal Plant (t5)
ToE (T13) (instead of t14 as it would be without mining)

We may have a problem if we are only just making shields for ToE and pollution hits. Instead of irrigating to slow ToE build down, if necessary we can switch to Suffrage (800s) for the penultimate turn, then back to ToE (600s) the turn we want it built.

Sci Method 4000 - 3*1000
Steel 5600 - 5*1120
Refining 6400 - 5*1280
Combustion 6400 - 5*1280
Mass Prod 5600 - 4*1400
Mot Trans 5600 - 4*1400
Flight 7200 - 5*1440

Sci Method above should be corp - we already know sci method

Looking real good

There is alittle gpt avail - Ottomen have 6gpt for replacable parts (we dont want to trade sci method ) or 4gpt for furs and contact with zulu (but likely trade route will be cut when war with Carthage). America have 8gpt + 40g for a middle age tech (even if we dow them before 20 turns up at least we get their money in meantime). Hopefully more avail once Mongul embargoes end.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Agree with all of that. We can take the gpt, just try not to bring luxes to america. Maybe we shouldn't give luxes to celts either.

 

[Paul#42]

So Abegweit, wanna keep things rolling?

1. Wacken just casted some nice "triple M" (micro managing magic)
2. Abegweit up and ready?
3. Killercane on deck
4. Paul in the hole
(5. Mark) hasn't been seen here for a while

 

[killercane]

Abe pmed me, he is not available to play right now. I will pick it up later tonight or tomorrow.