SGOTM 13 - Unusual Suspects

[Indiansmoke]

All good questions Swede. Roughly here is what I think we should do

1. Capital finishes pyramids straight (maybe include worker chop before he goes to improve gold?)
2. Stone city lighthouse without slave, grow pop 4 settler, 2 pop slave, Oracle for metal casting.
3. Stone city first settler goes on pig
4. marble city gets 2 workboats, lighthouse, pop 4 settler, then granary
5. Capital makes library after pyramids and runs 2 scientists to outpace the prophet.

General plan I think now is get pyramids, Oracle and colossus, expand to the islands like mad, when out of space, grow cities run representation scientists get tech advantage and slave better units to start killing ai's

It should be as easy as that and domination will probably be easier than conquest.

 

[kcd_swede]

All good questions Swede. Roughly here is what I think we should do

1. Capital finishes pyramids straight (maybe include worker chop before he goes to improve gold?)
2. Stone city lighthouse without slave, grow pop 4 settler, 2 pop slave, Oracle for metal casting.
3. Stone city first settler goes on pig
4. marble city gets 2 workboats, lighthouse, pop 4 settler, then granary
5. Capital makes library after pyramids and runs 2 scientists to outpace the prophet.

General plan I think now is get pyramids, Oracle and colossus, expand to the islands like mad, when out of space, grow cities run representation scientists get tech advantage and slave better units to start killing ai's

It should be as easy as that and domination will probably be easier than conquest.

1. Yes, I think the forest (with stone bonus) to speed up the pyramids is the best use for it. Also, IIRC, I chopped that down to 1t left already, so it shouldn't delay mining the gold (much). 'Mids still highest prio.
2. Yes, why not give it (Oracle) a shot. At worst we get some fail gold that goes to keeping science rate higher. Timing should work out good with the overflow. But if Oracle gone before then, should it go to granary instead? Or Library, or something else?
3. OK... with the pig then, we really can afford to gift the corn. I suggest we do so. Makes it easier to get help in wars or distract for backstabs if we make some friends.
4. Sounds good to me. Whipping the settler (2-pop) again, I assume would be best?
5. That should work... should be chance of GE as well... which might be useful for bulbing Machinery... or something else. But a GSci for academy would be most best I think.

About tech... are we headed to Lit after Polytheism/PH to go for Glib? That would be my suggestion. Alternatively, we could beeline alphabet and make some trades... but I think that could wait. Perhaps I should just follow this plan until we get to Polytheism and PH. Note, if Oracle goes before we have PH, I should stop before then to discuss what tech we want to aim for instead of PH. Also pause if anything significant happens.

 

[kcd_swede]

Overview:
1. Capital finishes pyramids straight (worker chop before he goes to improve gold)
2. Stone city lighthouse without slave, grow pop 4 settler, 2 pop slave, Oracle for metal casting.
3. Stone city first settler goes on pig
4. marble city gets 2 workboats, lighthouse, pop 4 settler, then granary
5. Capital makes library after pyramids and runs 2 scientists to outpace the prophet.

Diplo
OB with Vicky and Joao
Gift corn to Joao
No heads on sticks.

Tech
Max sustainable slider
Polytheism>PH (interupt PH and pause if Oracle BIFAL)

Stop criteria
Pause if Something Big (SB's) happens or New Exciting Opportunities (NEO's) arise, or if Oracle BIFAL before PH is finished.
Otherwise, stop point at PH.

------------
Anything else? Did I miss something? Come back with comments or green lights when you can. I'm pretty much free to play now or later or whenever. Just lemme know.

 

[Indiansmoke]

GREEN from me, only question I have is do we have to gift corn? Wouldn't that make capital unhealthy?

 

[kcd_swede]

GREEN from me, only question I have is do we have to gift corn? Wouldn't that make capital unhealthy?

Right now there are +2 excess health in capitol. If we give up the corn we still have 1 excess, and then are even (+0) with growth. As soon as wb collects the clams we would have +1 again. Also, when the pig settler arrives we'll get another +1. After 10 turns we can cancel it whenever we want if we growth beyond our health limit anywhere.

We don't have to gift the corn if it makes you nervous about health issues... (we could see our seafood get pillaged, I guess) but I don't see it being needed by us in the next 10 turns. We can cancel at any time after that without any repercussions. Most likely Joao gets zero benefit from it as well. But it should get us started towards diplo bonuses which take a while to accrue. Just have to remember we can cancel that deal if we have health issues.

 

[Indiansmoke]

Right now there are +2 excess health in capitol. If we give up the corn we still have 1 excess, and then are even (+0) with growth. As soon as wb collects the clams we would have +1 again. Also, when the pig settler arrives we'll get another +1. After 10 turns we can cancel it whenever we want if we growth beyond our health limit anywhere.

We don't have to gift the corn if it makes you nervous about health issues... (we could see our seafood get pillaged, I guess) but I don't see it being needed by us in the next 10 turns. We can cancel at any time after that without any repercussions. Most likely Joao gets zero benefit from it as well. But it should get us started towards diplo bonuses which take a while to accrue. Just have to remember we can cancel that deal if we have health issues.

OK cool

 

[Deckhand]

Green from me.
Am I on deck?

 

[kcd_swede]

Green from me.
Am I on deck?

Yes. But if TSM or Vra show up and are ready before the planning for that set gets started, it might be good to let one of them take their first set before you go for seconds. Glad you are up for it though... I was starting to think we were down to a duet.

Since the basic plan has been up for a few days and everyone who is currently active is green, I'll try to get this played to PH some time within the next 8 hours. I'll check in here before I play, but my next post should probably be a turnset report. We wouldn't want to have our post/turn count get above 2.

 

[vra379971]

Green from me - my exams are over Tuesday.

 

[kcd_swede]

OK... turnset report here:

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1600 BC to 1300 BC:


Turn 102, 1450 BC: Gold has been founded.

Turn 103, 1425 BC: You have discovered Polytheism!

Turn 106, 1350 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Marble!
Turn 106, 1350 BC: The borders of Marble are about to expand.
Turn 106, 1350 BC: Stony Brook will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 106, 1350 BC: The borders of Marble have expanded!

Turn 107, 1325 BC: The enemy has been spotted near Gold!
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Elba will become unhealthy on the next turn.
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Stony Brook has grown to size 4.
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Elba will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Deal Canceled: Corn to Joao II
Turn 107, 1325 BC: You have discovered Priesthood!
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Barbarian's Galley (2.00) vs Napoleon's Galley 2 (Stony Brook) (2.20)
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Combat Odds: 32.2%
Turn 107, 1325 BC: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Napoleon's Galley 2 (Stony Brook) is hit for 19 (81/100HP)
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 20 (80/100HP)
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Napoleon's Galley 2 (Stony Brook) is hit for 19 (62/100HP)
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 20 (60/100HP)
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 20 (40/100HP)
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 20 (20/100HP)
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Napoleon's Galley 2 (Stony Brook) is hit for 19 (43/100HP)
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 20 (0/100HP)
Turn 107, 1325 BC: Napoleon's Galley 2 (Stony Brook) has defeated Barbarian's Galley!
Turn 107, 1325 BC: While defending, your Galley 2 (Stony Brook) has killed a Barbarian Galley!

Turn 108, 1300 BC: Elba has grown to size 5.

I signed OB with Joao and Vicky, and gifted corn to Joao before doing anything else.

t99 a wb from Willem van Orange appears in SW (marked on map). Worst enemy of Ragnar. May the peace last 1000 years.
t100 Willem offers OB, which I decline (to avoid inevitable problems when Ragnar asks us to cancel trade with his WE). Willem is founder of Hinduism and running that as state religion.
t105 a barb galley appears in SW. exploring wb from Marble (waiting for border pop) is very lucky to have decided to only explore one more space before heading to the fish outside new Gold city... barb galley follows wb to gold city, where our galley is stationed on the coast inside culture borders, 2 spaces from the barb galley. barb galley attacks our galley and loses. wb improves the fish, galley enters Gold to heal.
The appearance of the barb galley is why it was no point to whip the second wb in Marble... but I suggest we do that now that the borders expanded.
t108 I cancel the gift of corn to Joao because growth to pop 5 in Elba means we have no margin left. Stone city built warrior while growing to size 4, and is now started on settler which can whip-overflow to the Oracle when overflow is maxed. This will get us the pig, but we will probably go into unhealth in the capitol first.
We are 14t from building the Pyramids using best improved tiles. Could do in 13 turns if we hire a generic citizen... not sure that is wise.

I attach some screenshots. Then I'll go upload the save. If you want me to continue... if you think the decisions at this point are pretty much set, that is, I can do so. I set tech on Alphabet... but haven't put any turns into it so we can change to soething else if desired. If we have a lot to discuss, that is, if we get to tuesday before getting a plan... then Vra can be up. Otherwise, I can continue or pass on to Deckhand if we know what to do until pyramids completes. Do we whip it when we can?

Anyhow... have a look and let me know what you guys think.
View attachment 287012

View attachment 287013

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View attachment 287015

 

[Indiansmoke]

Swede.

we need to keep expanding like mad both west and east.

I would suggest to slave workboat in marble city, get a second one, grow pop 4 and get settler from there. Gold city pop 4 settler as well (prioritize food).

Pyramids we might as well slave for 3 pop at first opportunity and get a granary in capital after.

Stone city slave 2 pop settler at max overflow and start Oracle, grow with granary 2 pop slave it max overflwo at Oracle and finish oracle. We need another galley there, maybe from capital after granary and pig city can make, workboat, row pop 4 settler.

Rough plan all this, just to emphazise that we need to use slavery like mad.

Tech Alpha sounds good, surely we will have something to trade.

Are you continuing Swede? I suggest you do, we are not many so double sessions are in order IMO.

 

[vra379971]

I'm rather nervous about Pyramids. so yes, do slave at first possible oppertunity - and feel free to continue as well as I have an exam Tuesday.

 

[Deckhand]

I'm ok with kcd continuing. He only played 6 turns, double sets are advised.
and ok with IS's plan.

I think I should play after vra. I will have more time next weekend than this one.

 

[kcd_swede]

Tech: Alphabet

Diplo: keep the peace, no trades

Cities:

Elba: whip Pyramids at first chance (I also am getting nervous there), then granary, galley while regrow

Stone city: 2-pop whip settler with max overflow to Oracle; settler to pig

(Pig): wb, grow, settler pop4

Marble: whip wb now that barb galley dead; make another wb; granary while grow, then queue-swap to settler

Gold: wb, grow building wb/galley, whip settler pop4

Other actions: worker to improve other cities, emphasis mines and farms where applicable, cottages otherwise.


Theme: judicious and profligate use of the whip while REX like mad fools

Stop criteria: Pyramids complete, or pause at significant event. (note, for the record I have played 12 turns and this continuation should bring it to around 20.) I'll also stop if I have a settler but don't know where to put him. Right now I'm leaning towards our next city after Pig should be the fur/crab in the north, followed by the copper island (not on copper since I hope we can trade for IW when alpha done in about 20 turns, and north of there is better longterm).

Comments welcome!

 

[Indiansmoke]

Green from me

 

[kcd_swede]

Since I know Deckhand would second that green, I continued as per plan.

Turn log:

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 1300 BC to 1125 BC:


Turn 109, 1275 BC: The borders of Stony Brook have expanded!

Turn 110, 1250 BC: Ragnar adopts Slavery!

Turn 113, 1175 BC: Elba has grown to size 6.
Turn 113, 1175 BC: Elba has become unhealthy.
Turn 113, 1175 BC: Stony Brook can hurry Settler for 2? with 15? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 113, 1175 BC: Gold has grown to size 2.
Turn 113, 1175 BC: Gold can hurry Work Boat for 1? with 15? overflow and +1? for 15 turns.
Turn 113, 1175 BC: Willem van Oranje will trade Pig
Turn 113, 1175 BC: The Great Wall has been built in a far away land!

Turn 114, 1150 BC: Elba can hurry The Pyramids for 3? with 14? overflow and +1? for 20 turns.
Turn 114, 1150 BC: Willem van Oranje won't trade Pig
Turn 114, 1150 BC: Napoleon has completed The Pyramids!
Turn 114, 1150 BC: You have constructed The Pyramids in Elba. Work has now begun on a Granary.
Turn 114, 1150 BC: You have trained a Work Boat in Gold. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 114, 1150 BC: Catherine converts to Judaism!
Turn 114, 1150 BC: Joao II has founded Coimbra in a distant land.

Turn 115, 1125 BC: Elba has become healthy.
Turn 115, 1125 BC: Catherine will trade Cow

Report: Gold improved and roaded, worker on galley on route to StonyBrook to make mine. One more end turn and Stony Brook settler will have 99 hammers... this will provide maximum overflow. So in next set, be sure to play 1 turn and then 2-pop whip settler for max overflow to Oracle. The second mine there should help a lot to get Oracle. I think we have decent odds of getting it.

Pyramids 3-pop whipped so now Elba is at pop3 for the next 3 turns. Overflow to granary, right? We'll want that first, but I think the plan for a galley there should be revised... we'll need a library first. Galley can get somewhere else (Marble or Gold, perhaps).

Whipped another wb in Gold, which is meant for the second clam there. Marble whipped the wb with overflow to another wb, will return to pop2 next turn.

But of course, we likely want to go into anarchy to switch to Representation now... though since we do not have any specialists nor pop to run them, its probably better to get the settler in Stony Brook 2-pop whipped (next turn, not this turn) before we change civics, imo.

Met Catherine's galley near her own territory. Russia has the Great Lighthouse in Moscow, though we haven't found Moscow yet. Its probably safe to open borders with her if it is needed for getting past her borders on way to cirumnav bonus, no worst enemy noted (she only has contact with Dutch). If we don't need it, we need to decide whether ob is a good idea or not with backstabbing b*tch. I forgot to check trades... she has cow she will trade. If she'll take clam for it, we should do that straight away, imo.

Anyhow, the save is up. A few screenshots attached. We can talk about it till tuesday, when Vra will be active.

Spoiler :

View attachment 287132

View attachment 287133

View attachment 287134

View attachment 287135

View attachment 287136

 

[kcd_swede]

Something like this?

Spoiler :

A drunk goes into a bar. The bartender tosses him out as he is too drunk. The drunk walks back into the bar. Again, the bartender throws him out for being too drunk. Again the drunk walks into the bar. The bartender is just about the throw him out when the drunk looks at him and says, "How many bars do you own, anyway?"

 

[kcd_swede]

We can talk about it till tuesday, when Vra will be active.

Note, I did NOT say "We can wait until Tuesday to talk about it when Vra is active".

But seems like that was what we did.

As I see it, the tech path should continue to alphabet.

Cities:
Stony Brook should whip settler next turn when hammers (99)are maxed for overflow to Oracle. For reference, each pop of whip counts for 45 hammers at epic speed, and the settler finishes at 146 hammers. Should be a lot of overflow, all getting the marble bonus for building Oracle. The worker is on galley to go make another mine there... which should speed up the rest of the Oracle build. If we fail Oracle, we anyhow got that marble bonus on the hammers invested, which converts to gold (always useful). Note, settler whipping is the most efficient since settlers building is a way to convert the excess food into hammers as well.

Elba completes the granary while regrowing, then a library. If need to halt growth to prevent unhappiness somewhere, we could use another worker. Probably whip the library into a worker.

Marble should make another galley after the queued workboat finishes.

Gold should make galley while growing, then switch to another settler when all improved tiles can be worked. Then whip the settler at 2-pop.

Civics: We wait until we have whipped and registered the overflow in the Oracle before switching civics to Representation. That's 2 more turns. This will increase our happy caps, so growth to larger cities is possible... and we want to use that to hire scientists in Elba and outpace the Stonehenge (+Oracle?) GPro in Stonybrook.

Oracle free tech should be metalcasting, imo, and we can build forge/colossus after that.

Diplo: if we can trade a surplus resource for Cathy's cow, we should do that. OB with Cathy if it aids exploring galley, who is now trying to earn us the circumnav bonus... which will be very useful when warring starts.

Anything else?

OK team... lets discuss. Vra, check in and make this into a PPP, modifying where you see fit.

Soon would be good. Yesterday would be better.

 

[kcd_swede]

Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello? Hello?

Wow... the acoustics in here are awesome! awesome! awesome! awesome!

Nobody here but my echo...echo...echo...echo...

 

[Indiansmoke]

Helloooo....I am here but busy...will look at situation in the weekend


Maybe I should start making PPP