LowtherCastle
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I'm on T145 now. Figuring out the warpath as I go and frequent interruptions make for slow progress. When would you be ready to play? I'll make sure I upload before then.
SGOTM 14 - One Short Straw
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
I could play in a couple of hours.
LowtherCastle
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Okay. I'm wrapping it up for the day. I'll write up a few thoughts to go along with the ones I wrote up in the other post.
LowtherCastle
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Done playing.
T148. Uploaded.
We got our GS in Washington and can start the GA immediately. No point in waiting because we want to finish in about 24t anyway. The only detail is that I haven't checked how many turns Pigs actually needs to run the 2 merchants to pop a GP. We haven't poprushed the market yet, so that can't begin yet, but I think it's less than 12t needed. Need to check this.
Our warring is making good progress. Liz is poorly defended in most cities, although she has a better defended city down on her spoke that we just discovered. Our WW is getting uncomfortable, but unfortunately we still have some work to do with Ragnar. We could make a settler for the dyes.
Our scout is trying to open up the area at the base of GK's spoke so that we can prepare to keep TRs with Gandhi when we DoW Zulu. That should be soon, so things are getting very tight. Part of our warpath for Liz has to include establishing a TR connection to Gandhi and Monty.
We have a couple of chariots en route to Liz to plunder cottages.
We have the Great Wall, so I took down the Maginot LIne.
Ragnar's SoD at Jute camped out last turn. Not sure what the deal is.
Good luck.
T148. Uploaded.
We got our GS in Washington and can start the GA immediately. No point in waiting because we want to finish in about 24t anyway. The only detail is that I haven't checked how many turns Pigs actually needs to run the 2 merchants to pop a GP. We haven't poprushed the market yet, so that can't begin yet, but I think it's less than 12t needed. Need to check this.
Our warring is making good progress. Liz is poorly defended in most cities, although she has a better defended city down on her spoke that we just discovered. Our WW is getting uncomfortable, but unfortunately we still have some work to do with Ragnar. We could make a settler for the dyes.
Our scout is trying to open up the area at the base of GK's spoke so that we can prepare to keep TRs with Gandhi when we DoW Zulu. That should be soon, so things are getting very tight. Part of our warpath for Liz has to include establishing a TR connection to Gandhi and Monty.
We have a couple of chariots en route to Liz to plunder cottages.
We have the Great Wall, so I took down the Maginot LIne.
Ragnar's SoD at Jute camped out last turn. Not sure what the deal is.
Good luck.
I guess you're off the bed now?
We're switching to Bureau, right? It's currently a loss of 14gpt, for a gain of 14gpt and 9hpt in Washington. I think that makes sense.
How did Shaka become the AP resident?
We're switching to Bureau, right? It's currently a loss of 14gpt, for a gain of 14gpt and 9hpt in Washington. I think that makes sense.
How did Shaka become the AP resident?
Also, do we wanna adopt Buddhism?
Dhoomstriker
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If we're switching to Buddhism, I guess just first check that there aren't any techs (I can't think of any that we would want) or Resources that we'd like to get in trade from a non-Buddhist AI Team, since a non-Buddhist AI Team will dislike us more after switching.
Other than that, we might as well switch to Buddhism for its help with the AP voting (double votes).
I'm assuming that Pigs' City = 2 Scientist + 2 Merchants once we get the Market, right?
Golden Age = use the Great Scientist (should be obvious but just in case it wasn't).
Should we be settling on top of the Dy Resource at the north part of our area or just next to it?
Other than that, we might as well switch to Buddhism for its help with the AP voting (double votes).
Since we don't want to learn Feudalism (to keep Longbowmen out of the hands of the Barbs), and since we won't learn Nationalism, I guess that we could switch... do note that as additional Cities start coming out of revolt, Bureaucracy will cost us more in Commerce than it will gain us... HOWEVER... we can always switch out of Bureaucracy later if that situation becomes an issue, so, sure, switch to Buddhism and Bureaucracy.babybluepants said:
Sometimes in BtS, AIs' Stacks of Doom will just sit around if they don't like the odds, waiting for reinforcements to arrive. If no reinforcements arrive, they may just sit there indefinitely.LowtherCastle said:
I'm assuming that Pigs' City = 2 Scientist + 2 Merchants once we get the Market, right?
Golden Age = use the Great Scientist (should be obvious but just in case it wasn't).
Should we be settling on top of the Dy Resource at the north part of our area or just next to it?
Played two turns so far.
Switched to Bureau. As you say, we can always switch back out of it later. No Buddhism yet. The next vote is in 3t, and I'm not sure if you guys want any trades. I don't.
We captured Uppsala and Haithabu from Ragnar, London and Warwick (razed) from Liz. Liz is dead in 2t. We're moving troops in against the last three cities next turn, and they are very poorly defended. Ragnar should be more. I have to somehow get troops to his spoke city.
Pigs had to 4pop a market, and will be just short of the gpp requirement. I should have calculated this a touch earlier, but it's no big. I think we'll be out of GA for 1t.
Edit: we got another GG in Ivory. Not sure what to do with it. I'd settle in Ivory for 2 promo maces, but don't know what you guys want. Since I'm only playing 1 more turn, I think, I'll leave it for discussion.
Switched to Bureau. As you say, we can always switch back out of it later. No Buddhism yet. The next vote is in 3t, and I'm not sure if you guys want any trades. I don't.
We captured Uppsala and Haithabu from Ragnar, London and Warwick (razed) from Liz. Liz is dead in 2t. We're moving troops in against the last three cities next turn, and they are very poorly defended. Ragnar should be more. I have to somehow get troops to his spoke city.
Pigs had to 4pop a market, and will be just short of the gpp requirement. I should have calculated this a touch earlier, but it's no big. I think we'll be out of GA for 1t.
Edit: we got another GG in Ivory. Not sure what to do with it. I'd settle in Ivory for 2 promo maces, but don't know what you guys want. Since I'm only playing 1 more turn, I think, I'll leave it for discussion.
Genghis has a GM walking to Gandhi, btw. Not a good thing.
Does fur for wheat cause a 10t peace treaty?
Dhoomstriker
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As for Buddhism, if we switch to it before the next Apostolic Palace vote or Resident election is called, we may benefit.
I'm not exactly sure when we'd need to switch, be it on the turn before the vote or on the turn of the vote itself, but to be safe we should probably switch on the turn before the next voting dialogue box will appear.
No worries about the Pigs City's Great Person. There's always the option to slip into Caste System for 5 turns but I doubt that that 1 turn of Golden Age will make up for the lack of Slavery everywhere for 5 turns.
GG in Ivory = 7 XP War Elephants = 1 battle away from being amphibious (unless we already have a GG there, in which case two settled there = instant amphibious War Elephants). Either of those options are fine by me. I'm not sure why we'd be building Maces out of our Stable City (Ivory City) unless the AIs have a lot of Pikes or Spearmen that they are throwing our way.
Since we likely won't be running Vassalage and likely aren't close to Theocracy, there probably isn't a better City to settle him in (i.e. no real chance of another City besides Vijay to pump Navigation I Galleons)... the only other option would be to save him for the end game against the Wizard but honestly getting more promos out of Ivory City is probably more important at this stage and plus we might get another Great General or two before the game's over anyway.
Don't forget to build your Theatres if we're supposed to do so (I'm not sure when we'd need them built by for them to be effective).
I guess if we do start on a Settler for the Dyes, we'd settle on the Dyes, giving us an extra Happiness point everywhere plus another Happiness point wherever we have a Theatre.
I'm not exactly sure when we'd need to switch, be it on the turn before the vote or on the turn of the vote itself, but to be safe we should probably switch on the turn before the next voting dialogue box will appear.
No worries about the Pigs City's Great Person. There's always the option to slip into Caste System for 5 turns but I doubt that that 1 turn of Golden Age will make up for the lack of Slavery everywhere for 5 turns.
GG in Ivory = 7 XP War Elephants = 1 battle away from being amphibious (unless we already have a GG there, in which case two settled there = instant amphibious War Elephants). Either of those options are fine by me. I'm not sure why we'd be building Maces out of our Stable City (Ivory City) unless the AIs have a lot of Pikes or Spearmen that they are throwing our way.
Since we likely won't be running Vassalage and likely aren't close to Theocracy, there probably isn't a better City to settle him in (i.e. no real chance of another City besides Vijay to pump Navigation I Galleons)... the only other option would be to save him for the end game against the Wizard but honestly getting more promos out of Ivory City is probably more important at this stage and plus we might get another Great General or two before the game's over anyway.
Don't forget to build your Theatres if we're supposed to do so (I'm not sure when we'd need them built by for them to be effective).
I guess if we do start on a Settler for the Dyes, we'd settle on the Dyes, giving us an extra Happiness point everywhere plus another Happiness point wherever we have a Theatre.
Dhoomstriker
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Uhhhh, it depends...babybluepants said:
If you mean: if an AI comes to us saying that they will give us Resource A if we give them an extra copy of our Resource B, then no, it's just a normal trade and there won't be an associated Peace Treaty.
Similarly, if you are the one to initiate a Resource Trade, as long as we are giving the AI something, there is no way for a Peace Treaty to be enforced.
If, however, we're at war with an AI Team and a trade is made where either us or them offer a Resource (both sides can't offer a Resource), then we'd essentially be signing a Peace Treaty.
Also, if we ask for something (like a Resource) when at Peace with an AI Team without offering anything in return, then we'd essentially be signing a 10-turn no-war treaty.
Alternatively, if an AI asks for a Resource, Gold, a tech, etc, and offers nothing in return, then agreeing to their Demand/Request would essentially be signing a 10-turn no-war treaty.
Uploaded at T151. I hope I didn't screw it up too bad.
GG started going towards Vijay for 2 more xp into galleons.
Shaka has a fur for trade. Might help with WW 'till we eliminate Ragnar.
The next AP vote is in 2t. I don't think we wanna make any further trades. Mainly 'cause I don't wanna give any further techs away.
It's time to do full on planning for the end game now. I'm not sure what it will take to get troops to the Wizard or get settlers into place on the hub.
GG started going towards Vijay for 2 more xp into galleons.
Shaka has a fur for trade. Might help with WW 'till we eliminate Ragnar.
The next AP vote is in 2t. I don't think we wanna make any further trades. Mainly 'cause I don't wanna give any further techs away.
It's time to do full on planning for the end game now. I'm not sure what it will take to get troops to the Wizard or get settlers into place on the hub.
Dhoomstriker
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Just to clarify: Nope, no tech trades desired by me, either.babybluepants said:
LowtherCastle
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Note: I wouldn't raze any cities any more. We'll deal with the maintenance somehow.
LowtherCastle
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Okay. I'll start working on that now. We can count GK's tiles, but we'll have to guestimate.
Dhoomstriker
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I guess that we'll just have to rely on the Golden Ages to carry us through financially.
If things get really desperate, we can always build Wealth.
Sorry, I guess I was confusing about the Great General--I did think that it was okay to settle him in Ivory City, since we'll likely never get to Vassalage.
If we think that we'll get to Theology for Theocracy soon and if Vijay will then get 8 XP units (i.e. if it has Buddhism), then sure, we could still settle the Great General there. Optionally, if we think that we'll get Theocracy soon, then we could pick another large-population Buddhist City and get a few more 5-movement-point Galleons.
Now, I guess, it's about figuring out Theatres, Settlers, where we might build a City in the middle of the map and where we might build a City in place of razing one of the last few Cities that we capture (keeping most Cities up until the very end game and then only razing if we actually have Settlers remaining to replace said Cities).
If things get really desperate, we can always build Wealth.
Sorry, I guess I was confusing about the Great General--I did think that it was okay to settle him in Ivory City, since we'll likely never get to Vassalage.
If we think that we'll get to Theology for Theocracy soon and if Vijay will then get 8 XP units (i.e. if it has Buddhism), then sure, we could still settle the Great General there. Optionally, if we think that we'll get Theocracy soon, then we could pick another large-population Buddhist City and get a few more 5-movement-point Galleons.
Now, I guess, it's about figuring out Theatres, Settlers, where we might build a City in the middle of the map and where we might build a City in place of razing one of the last few Cities that we capture (keeping most Cities up until the very end game and then only razing if we actually have Settlers remaining to replace said Cities).
LowtherCastle
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It's going to be very tight getting domination without capturing some of Mansa's hub cities and maybe some of Monte's hub cities too.
There are different ways to dotmap it, but I have found one way that requires setling 4 cities that will go to 100
which means they have to be settled fairly soon. The most important of those is the Zulu Canal, allowing our galleons to exit/enter the Zulu Bay:
This is critical because Zulu's culture has not overtaken that tile yet. With 100 Zulu Canal will acquire +4 land tiles.
The second city is near the razed Warwick:
Warwick SW serves no strategic purpose but captures +5 mountain tiles at 100.
The other two 100 cities we need to settle soon are:
Combined with Asoka's spoke cities and the barb city on our spoke, these two cities fill the space very nicely and have enough good tiles and forests to get to 100.
There are different ways to dotmap it, but I have found one way that requires setling 4 cities that will go to 100
which means they have to be settled fairly soon. The most important of those is the Zulu Canal, allowing our galleons to exit/enter the Zulu Bay:This is critical because Zulu's culture has not overtaken that tile yet. With 100
Zulu Canal will acquire +4 land tiles.The second city is near the razed Warwick:
Warwick SW serves no strategic purpose but captures +5 mountain tiles at 100
.The other two 100
cities we need to settle soon are:Combined with Asoka's spoke cities and the barb city on our spoke, these two cities fill the space very nicely and have enough good tiles and forests to get to 100
.Attachments
LowtherCastle
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Of course, we'll need many other settlers for only 10. I estimate about 15 total (including the four above).
. I estimate about 15 total (including the four above).
Dhoomstriker
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Well, if we're using Forests to build Theatres, we'll need to send, what... 1, maybe 2 Workers along with each Settler, as well as a possible City defender?
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