SGOTM 14 - Plastic Ducks

[obsolete]

Hmm, I installed buffy, though for some reason my sound never works, I guess it's no biggie.

When I first start loading the game though I get an error about not being allowed to save. Is that just an expected warning?

 

[Deity player]

Well they kindly ask to avoid flying camera, that doesn't mean that they said we can't! Haha.

The use of these techniques will therefore be banned during this game.

- Players are NOT permitted to use the 'Flying Camera' to look for details under the fog.

- Players are NOT permitted to map invisible terrain using the Go To facility.

I would call it a strict prohibition, not kindly asking .

 

[obsolete]

I think it may be best to move 1 tile west to trade the oasis for a sheep. Though what are the odds the editors did something silly like put a great tile in that hex?

 

[obsolete]

BTW, it seems this is going to be a crowded map, with the number of AI's alone on a standard size map. Makes me wonder if we should just go warrior first, and scout around, stealing OTHER workers?

* Edit *
Damnit, just remembered that Emperor AI's don't start with free workers (I think they don't?) so we may have to wait a few turns, haha.

* Edit *
Oh sh!t, just realized again since it's a tampered with map, the AIs may already have extra workers added anyway, just hope there is no SURPRISES, like extra added armies either (better check the stats screens carefully).

 

[kossin]

Hmm, I installed buffy, though for some reason my sound never works, I guess it's no biggie.

When I first start loading the game though I get an error about not being allowed to save. Is that just an expected warning?

Not sure about this, I don't recall seeing this before.

Flying Camera Trick is not banned, as it cannot be verified that it was used or not. So, use it if you want.

I can't guarantee that the Wizard of Oz will not be eliminated by the AI. But how about this:
I will check all the teams saves periodically, and if an AI eliminates him without the team being aware, then I will let that team know.

This leads me to believe Oz isn't extra hard to reach.

BTW, leader is effectively Lincoln, PHI+CHAR. The 8th AI is a strange choice indeed, making Diplo wins possibly more difficult if land is well balanced between them.

We can run a few tests with regards to worker steals, but I doubt warrior first would be the way to go. Since this is a doctored map, I think it's highly likely that a strat resource is 1W (my money on horses). Otherwise the map can't be too evil, newer teams might have trouble handling a real evil map. I remember making an Emperor map that played like Imm-Deity

 

[obsolete]

It is also possible there are horses right under our settler right now. With world builder edits, anything is possible. If you have a FEEL for the person who did the edits, then I guess we can try to assume there is a resource 1-West, but just because there is no forest there doesnt' really mean anything in world-edited scenarios from my past experience.

What are the chances that the person designing the scenario set up false red-herrings?

 

[Deity player]

It is really mysterious why the map type is called 'Mystery'. There should be a reason!

 

[obsolete]

First question is, do we go Hunting before AH? Seems like a waste of beakers if we skip it but need to get it anyway for horse archers or phants.

I guess Hunting --> AH first?

 

[kossin]

It is also possible there are horses right under our settler right now. With world builder edits, anything is possible. If you have a FEEL for the person who did the edits, then I guess we can try to assume there is a resource 1-West, but just because there is no forest there doesnt' really mean anything in world-edited scenarios from my past experience.

What are the chances that the person designing the scenario set up false red-herrings?

This is his first map so no clues as to habits. Usually though SGOTMs try to refrain from weird resource presence on tiles. Our only clue is that he said he'd give various advantages to various settling locations. SIP might get more hammers but 1W gets more food. I'm guessing that there's a possibility to move a bit and get a commerce tile but otherwise nothing really...

It is really mysterious why the map type is called 'Mystery'. There should be a reason!

He just doesn't want to give the general layout. I'd consider it a Continents map probably, or Fractal. Could be mirror, that'd be fun

First question is, do we go Hunting before AH? Seems like a waste of beakers if we skip it but need to get it anyway for horse archers or phants.

I guess Hunting --> AH first?

I very much doubt Hunting is needed this early. Saving 16 beakers while spending 40 more means 2-3 turns later BW.

 

[Duckweed]

Here comes a bunch of questions. Please, don't blame me if you find the answers obvious .

Don't hesitate to ask when there are things unclear, and don't hesitate to speak out your opinion. The discussion is the most important thing of SG.

Why is it important to think about the need of astro now? Does it affect our initial tech path in some way? Why not wait and see? (Or did you only express your guess which will not affect our play?)

Because it could affect the game strategy much earlier than the situation become clear. Especially what to take from Oracle. If Astro is unnecessary, then we can just follow the similar strategy we used in SGOTM13, necessary techs are Construction and currency only.

In my games, I almost never build oracle. Is there any concensus on what tech do we want to get from it?

The consensus is " it depends". In SGOTM11, we took CoL since it fit Gandhi the best. In SGOTM12, we took CS since it gave the largest return. In SGOTM13, we took Currency since it was one of the 2 necessary techs to win the game.

 

[Duckweed]

Oracle freebee

Assume Astronomy is necessary. Since we are philosophy, our capacity of producing GS could be more than enough, so using a GS to bulb Math could be considered, we can then take Currency from Oracle.


War Machine

I did not mentioned it in the 1st post, mainly because I guess there's good chance that we will use all kind of units.

Harass and take out 1st and/or 2nd AI: Chariot/Axe
Other AIs in the same continent: Cat + Axe/Sword
Oversea AIs: cat/Treb + Mace
OZ: If it's nasty unit like Drill IV MG, then Flanking II HAs or even knights would be the only choice.

Mids

This map and leader are more SGOTM11 like. If we are going to run a bunch of scientists to generate several GS to bulb to Astronomy, then the beakers from representation will be considerable. Here was the example from OSS I analyzed. 4 beakers per hammer is not bad.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10589493&postcount=899

This map looks very productive. If stone is available, then mids can be quickly done with ~5 chops. Therefore, translating hammers into beakers through mids is efficient in this map.

 

[Duckweed]

Compromise now lurking.

Given that the apparent best capital site is 1W, is it better to move the warrior before moving the Settler 1W? Warrior W, SW, S reveals nothing new. NE, E, or SE reveal mostly water tiles. N is on a hill and so beats NW.

So, if the warrior moves first, it is 1N, but since moving the settler 1W will reveal the entire BFC of the 1W site, I'm hard-pressed to say what we'd need to see from the warrior to *not* move the settler 1W. Whatever is N of the warrior is likely to go to a later Crab City anyway.

The only other thing is if 1W with settler makes us consider settling on the forested plains hill 1S of the Sheep, but it seems unlikely that a 2H capital is worth giving up cow and wet corn. Especially since we'd be moving there blindly.

I don't know if it will help much to run tests before getting more map info.

I agree, move warrior 1N and the settler 1W before settling is the safe way to go.

 

[obsolete]

If stone is available, then mids can be quickly done with ~5 chops.

I was going to say earlier, without looking at anything else on the map, I would assume Metal Casting from Oracle would be the obvious choice for a tech (for obvious reasons).

If we find stone then we can re-evaluate.

 

[Deity player]

Oracle freebeeHarass and take out 1st and/or 2nd AI: Chariot/Axe
Other AIs in the same continent: Cat + Axe/Sword
Oversea AIs: cat/Treb + Mace
OZ: If it's nasty unit like Drill IV MG, then Flanking II HAs or even knights would be the only choice.Mids

It can happen that our continent is large enough for domination (or contains all 8 AIs) but OZ is on another continent. Then we would have to carefully chosse who deserves DoW.

 

[obsolete]

OZ: If it's nasty unit like Drill IV MG, then Flanking II HAs or even knights would be the only choice.

Please don't waste promos on Flank, especially not on units that already ignore FS.

 

[Snaaty]

we need some sims on the oracle freebee... ...and without knowing the early wonder + religion dates we have no idea around what time the oracle will be build by our neighbours.

-> on a side note:
if we bulb math with a gs, we i would prefere CS via oracle over currency...

...

it might happen that i´m off due to work the whole next week (it looks very likely right now. if so, i wont have time to prepare the testmap this WE. i will let you know asap as soon as i have confirmation about the work issue...)

 

[Deity player]

This is what happened if I try to open the SGOTM 13 save and the game crashes to windows then. I reinstalled BUFFY but it didn't help. Do you know what does that mean?

 

[Bebekija]

@deity : Buffy conflicts with other mods. If you have BUG installed, either rename the custom assets folder or uninstall it completely before you try to install BUFFY again.
If you have BULL, it means that you replaced the original .dll in the Beyond the Sword/Assets folder with the BULL version. You have to retrieve the original .dll and put it back.

That's what worked for me when I had the same problem.

Overall, nothing that a fresh install can't solve. It may even be faster....

 

[Deity player]

Oh, I have installed BUG + BULL this week... Thanks, I will try to do something with it.

 

[kossin]

@Deity

Go to Program Files>...>Firaxis>Civ4>BTS>MODS>BUFFY-3.19.003
Open BUFFY-3.19.003.ini
Change this 0 to a 1.

; Custom XML and Python from user folder are not loaded
NoCustomAssets = 0

Next, go to Go to Program Files>...>Firaxis>Civ4>BTS>Assets

1. Create a backup of your current .dll file there, I usually just change the extension name to .bull
2. Place the file I've uploaded instead there (unzip).