SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

[Kaitzilla]

They hopefully still refuse to talk to each other after we bribed Hatse to stop trading with Liz plus Hatse DoW'd Liz -> without war success for the war target Tokus refuse to talk for 20 turns after they declare.

Peace Treaties prevent the Holy War resolution from coming up!

Doh! Someone should write a new guide for the AP in the strategy article section that includes everything once this game is over.

Also, I figured out why I couldn't get holy war in my old test game. Apparently, you must have another full member in addition to the AP resident before you can start holy war versus a heathen. My test game had only one Hindu civ (me) and couldn't get the holy war going until I made another civ Hindu too. So once again the Team_AI bug creates options for us that we would not have otherwise had!


Perhaps the other teams didn't pursue fast Religious Victory because they KNEW with their superior knowledge of hidden AP mechanics that Holy Wars against the Gawas are impossible because once you convert one to Hindu, then all the others will vote for it over you and there is no way to change that for a long time. That would be pretty funny if true.

Did we find out about the Team_AI bug enabling early Open Borders Treaties before or after our first holy war?

 

[Kaitzilla]

... 2 missionaries should be planning to get on board the trireme->caravel out of the next city, I think. The last should stay within range of getting on a caravel heading north past Babylon?

The last should be focusing on infecting Ghenghis with Hindu. I'd use one of the two Hindu Missionaries in Hatty's lands to infect our new city, and then build a new Hindu Missionary in SheepTown right away.

 

[mabraham]

Doh! Someone should write a new guide for the AP in the strategy article section that includes everything once this game is over.

Also, I figured out why I couldn't get holy war in my old test game. Apparently, you must have another full member in addition to the AP resident before you can start holy war versus a heathen. My test game had only one Hindu civ (me) and couldn't get the holy war going until I made another civ Hindu too. So once again the Team_AI bug creates options for us that we would not have otherwise had!


Perhaps the other teams didn't pursue fast Religious Victory because they KNEW with their superior knowledge of hidden AP mechanics that Holy Wars against the Gawas are impossible because once you convert one to Hindu, then all the others will vote for it over you and there is no way to change that for a long time. That would be pretty funny if true.

Did we find out about the Team_AI bug enabling early Open Borders Treaties before or after our first holy war?

Before. IIRC, we knew that holy war vote option "required" a full member not at war with a heathen. The bug means the AP behaves as if there are more full members than actually exist. So the holy war, and OB, etc. were all (brokenly) available to us.

 

[mabraham]

The last should be focusing on infecting Ghenghis with Hindu. I'd use one of the two Hindu Missionaries in Hatty's lands to infect our new city, and then build a new Hindu Missionary in SheepTown right away.

... which would require Organized Religion... but if we're not building army, no need for Theocracy.

 

[Kaitzilla]

... which would require Organized Religion... but if we're not building army, no need for Theocracy.

We have plenty of Hindu Monasteries. It shouldn't be a problem if we decided to do it.

I'm on the fence about skipping plans for a military. It makes sense to tech faster, but in my heart I love


Also, we need to send some military up to protect our prized coastal city from a lone Liz unit.

 

[mabraham]

We have plenty of Hindu Monasteries. It shouldn't be a problem if we decided to do it.

I'm on the fence about skipping plans for a military. It makes sense to tech faster, but in my heart I love

Oh... sorry, I was focussing on building a missionary in the new city after spreading there. If so, we need OR. Hinduism spread there possibly provides somewhat more tolerance of failure to spread to a northern AI. Depends if SheepTown can build a new one to travel faster than the new city can build one. Not sure.

Sure, love beating up AIs, but only if it suits the strategic goals...

One priority is to scout the Cyrus coastline for another possible boat-building site.

 

[shulec]

Here is the updated test game.

 

[WastinTime]

shulec, could you please post the saves for t120 and t121. before any moves were made? if you have them.

 

[shulec]

Crap, I forgot to move them out of my autosave folder, so when I made the test game, they got saved over. I forgot to save at the beginning of those turns too. I have the beginning and end of T119 if that helps.

 

[WastinTime]

Well maybe you can answer my question.

I'm concerned that I see Hats' sword+cat heading in our direction. Liz came from the other direction, so there is no reason for those units to come to us. She is not at war with Shaka (like Toku was). Is there any chance, when you moved the fast worker thru Toku's land, that you saw any other Hats units?

I would like to close Hats-Toku borders.

 

[shulec]

There were a few Hatty units down there, but no stacks. Our settler has one more move that could put him in Hatty's land and get us to the corn or pig by Gateway City one turn quicker. I figure that there is about a 1 in 200 chance that the Drill III Liz archer is still alive and around there. If I don't move the settler, it will probably be a waste of a turn. If you want and others agree, I can move the settler and let you know what is there. Prior to the turnset.

FYI, Hatty dropped from +4 (cautious) to +3 (cautious) with us on about T119 or T120.

 

[shulec]

I would like to close Hats-Toku borders.

This can be done by offering Currency to Hatty. We get -1 diplo with Toku.

 

[shulec]

It looks like there might be a coastal settle site 3E or 3E1S of Cyrus's Numidian.

 

[shulec]

I would like to try to get as many shared trades with genghis as possible for the extra Diplo point. If we can put a city by the pigs northwest of GatewayCity, we may be able to liberate it to him.

These two points should get him to pleased. This has to happen before we declare war on Lizagawa again. Kaitzilla thought with a gold gift we can get to the 50 turns needed for the diplo point on T127.

 

[shulec]

Does anyone know how many turns of accumulated resource turns we have with Genghis? If we can get the extra point, OB can occur more quickly with a libertion. If we give him our gold, we will have a few turns of unhappiness in PigsGem and Dehli.

 

[WastinTime]

I see that settler and there is another war chariot hiding under him. I think we are under attack.

Don't forget, you can get 50 gold+closed borders for Currency.

 

[WastinTime]

If we give him our gold, we will have a few turns of unhappiness in PigsGem and Dehli.

You can cancel the gold we are giving currently.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Well maybe you can answer my question.

I'm concerned that I see Hats' sword+cat heading in our direction. Liz came from the other direction, so there is no reason for those units to come to us. She is not at war with Shaka (like Toku was). Is there any chance, when you moved the fast worker thru Toku's land, that you saw any other Hats units?

I would like to close Hats-Toku borders.

Hats is planning to dec us?

I'm sure she wasn't in WHEOOHRN before she entered the Holy War vs. Liz T116. Also, she trade embargoed Liz T115, so a bribe from Liz isn't possible. I don't think Hats will declare war on us while still at war with another AI. Those units are probably headed towards where Hatsegawa thinks Elizagawa is.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Does anyone know how many turns of accumulated resource turns we have with Genghis? If we can get the extra point, OB can occur more quickly with a libertion. If we give him our gold, we will have a few turns of unhappiness in PigsGem and Dehli.

If you check the important info screenshots here, it appears Ghenghigawa has been getting deer since T101. He was gifted stone starting T109. These two resources should get +1 resources with Ghenghigawa on T130. Adding a 3rd resource starting T121 will lower the +1 resources date down to T127.

Hammarugawa reached +1 resources on T119. He should reach +2 resources on T132 if we keep giving him 4 resources. If we cancel gold to him T121, then he will reach +2 resources T135. I suppose it could work if we remembered to give him fish or wheat T128.

 

[WastinTime]

Yea, that reminds me. We should get the fish that is available now so we can trade ours away.