SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

[Kaitzilla]

I would encourage others to count tiles, double check the math, and see for themselves about canceling open borders and then getting a new one with shared war. I've been known to make small mistakes from time to time and the crazy plan has no margin for error.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Do we plan to settle a city 1-N+3-W of Saxon in 3t? There are two forests in Ring 1 we could chop as soon as we get a Worker or two to chop them.

I wish we had moved exploring units before uploading the current save.

I'm also not sure Hastegawa would have DoWed us in the real game without us doing anything to "prevent" it. An AI Civ usually doesn't start another War while already at War with a strong opponent. I'm not sure an exception is made for a Holy War. In the worse case, I think maybe Hastegawa would have submitted a DoW on us, after her involvement with the Holy War ended. Now that the decision point has safely passed us, I now finally safely comment on it.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[bcool]

Teleporting plan sounds good...

Other "crazy" things to consider...

Give Trojan Horse to Hatsegawa t131 (after we take it back from lizgawa)
Flip her to Buddhism
Bribe Genghisgawa (not possible? "nothing to gain" into war with her (canceling her plans to DoW us) We only have theology to gift him, might be too little even if ruining their relationship with a hinduism flip gets past the "nothing to gain" block) Might have optics to bribe him with if we bulb it or Machinery if we bulb it with Great engineer.
cancel peace treaty.
DoW her
OB with Genghisgawa (infect Genghisgawa)
Take Trojan Horse back

Must look at diplo hits for DoW a hindu Hatsegawa and must be careful to check that she wouldn't stay in Hinduism.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Teleporting plan sounds good...

Other "crazy" things to consider...

Give Trojan Horse to Hatsegawa t131 (after we take it back from lizgawa)
Flip her to Buddhism
Bribe Genghisgawa (not possible? "nothing to gain" into war with her (canceling her plans to DoW us) We only have theology to gift him, might be too little even if ruining their relationship with a hinduism flip gets past the "nothing to gain" block) Might have optics to bribe him with if we bulb it or Machinery if we bulb it with Great engineer.
cancel peace treaty.
DoW her
OB with Genghisgawa (infect Genghisgawa)
Take Trojan Horse back

Must look at diplo hits for DoW a hindu Hatsegawa and must be careful to check that she wouldn't stay in Hinduism.

Hrmm, it would have to be T130 as I don't think Hatty will be talking with us anymore T131. Flipping her to Hinduism ought to make sure Ghenghigawa isn't friendly with her and thus open up a war bribe, but I think we have to be pleased (+5) with a Gawa to be able to bribe them to war. We are currently +3 with Ghenghigawa.

 

[shulec]

Hey guys, I am sorry to do this, but I have to pass on the rest of the turns of my turnset. I really didn't have the time for the last week that I have spent on the turnset. I definitely don't have any more time going forward. TThe next few turns seem quite complex based on all the discussion I just got through. I did two PPPs and don't have time for a third. Sorry. I hope the next player can step up!

Edit: Not to mention taking some serious heat from my wife!

 

[mabraham]

Hey guys, I am sorry to do this, but I have to pass on the rest of the turns of my turnset. I really didn't have the time for the last week that I have spent on the turnset. I definitely don't have any more time going forward. TThe next few turns seem quite complex based on all the discussion I just got through. I did two PPPs and don't have time for a third. Sorry. I hope the next player can step up!

No worries! Thanks for the hard and good work!

 

[mabraham]

Do we plan to settle a city 1-N+3-W of Saxon in 3t? There are two forests in Ring 1 we could chop as soon as we get a Worker or two to chop them.

Yes, mentioned quite a lot already.

I wish we had moved exploring units before uploading the current save.

Some of them have been. I do think the next player should move our Hatse missionaries, Genghis scout and GG before we discuss further.

 

[Manco Capac]

Shulec, the fact you took my turnset was an immense help. I'm in debt to you. I saw you lacked sleep again. Somehow, welcome to my world, usually...

So, I guess I take the turnset, right?
From T122-T138.

But I can make much today, it is late here.

Do I take last PPP and rework until T128?

 

[mabraham]

Shulec, the fact you took my turnset was an immense help. I'm in debt to you. I saw you lacked sleep again. Somehow, welcome to my world, usually...

So, I guess I take the turnset, right?
From T122-T138.

But I can make much today, it is late here.

Yes, I sure bc will post shortly, but in email to me before he left on the trip from which I think he has now returned, he intended you to take the next set, if you are willing.

Regarding a PPP, much has changed since shulec's PPPs, though the plan with respect to espionage and Liz has not.

 

[Manco Capac]

Some of them have been. I do think the next player should move our Hatse missionaries, Genghis scout and GG before we discuss further.

I'm here to do it if you want...

 

[shulec]

I am fine if you want to move them too.

 

[bcool]

Thanks for the hard work shulec!

Walter_Wolf ... waiting
mabraham ... waiting
WastinTime ... waiting
Kaitzilla ... waiting
Tachywaxon ... UP NOW
shulec ... waiting
bcool ... on deck
Sun Tzu Wu ... in the hole

Tachy you should plan to play the next 10 turns. T122-T132

Take what you can from shulec's PPP, but things have changed as mabraham suggested.

you can move scouting units (maybe not the GG?) There could still be some debate about the GG.

And yes I'm back from my trip.

 

[mabraham]

Of course, there's been various T122+ planning discussion already for consideration for Tachy's PPP, notably from Kaitzilla, bc and I.

 

[mabraham]

you can move scouting units (maybe not the GG?) There could still be some debate about the GG.

OK, well at least one of the axes from ST can start moving forward. Some intel on Hatse's stack (non-)movements would be welcome.

 

[shulec]

Shulec, the fact you took my turnset was an immense help. I'm in debt to you. I saw you lacked sleep again. Somehow, welcome to my world, usually...

So, I guess I take the turnset, right?
From T122-T138.

But I can make much today, it is late here.

Do I take last PPP and rework until T128?

I am trying to get an accurate test game for you. The test game got off in Sheeptown because our neighbor got CS and irritated a corn, but this is not the case in the real game.

Tachy, please note that there is a worker nearly finished in PigGems (and an unintended setter after him in the queue).

 

[Kaitzilla]

We keep making Shulec's plate of things to do higher and higher

So far I think we are up to this list so far:

1) Settle a city on the northern coast and build a trireme. Have the lead worker chop and the trailing worker complete roads.
2) T122 Broker an embargo of Hatty against Tokuguawa for Currency (Try to get Hatty's 90 gold in the deal also)
3) T122 Send a stack of axes+1sword+great general towards 1W of Thebes immediately (to arrive on T129)
4) T122 Put 70 espionage into Elizagawa to get a peek at what she is reasearching. Ultimately put 460 total into Liz for the steals. Start constructing a 5th spy.
5) T124 Don't trade any new resources to Heathens such as Ghenghigawa, Elizagawa, or unmet AI starting this turn so we have the option of an AP election T136 if we wish.
6) T125 Screenshot the AP resolution, vote yes for holy war if it comes up
7) T126 Consult team about what to do with mystery Great Person
8) T126-T127 Cease fire with Liz if Tokugawa has no axe near LizTown or Trojan Horse
9) T126-T127 Steal Machinery->Compass->Optics->Code of Laws in that order of preference. Crank Science slider to 100% if we need to tech Optics ourselves.
10) Declare war on Liz and take back our cities after tech steals complete. Must occur before T129 or we can't do the teleport trick with Hatsegawa.
11) T127 Settle Corn City. Switch to Caste System and run artist if possible. Infect with Hindu. Save Hindu Missionary #1 inside the north city and Hindu Missionary #3 inside Corn City for Caravels.
12) Mass the catapults and rest of the military in SheepTown and send towards Hatty's southern city when comfortable.
13) Use the fast workers out east to build a road diagonally up through Memphis. Then send one to copper tile T127 and one onto hilltop forest 1S1W of corn T127.
14) Have a scout hang out near Hammy's capital for a Hammarugawa or Shakagawa stack of doom marching down towards us just in case. (Might have to build another one)

He's going to kill us if we pile on too much. We have already tortured him for a straight week!

 

[Manco Capac]

Still under modification.
I'll come back; the computer needs to be boot.

PPP T 122-128​

Unresolved issues:

• Bribe Hatty to close borders with Toku.
• Trade Gold to Genghigawa. Get gold from Hammuragawa or take unhappiness in Dehli and PigGems.
• Move settler outside Hatty's land one extra turn on T121 to assess Hatty's war sit.
• What do we trade for Hammuragawas fish.

Gateway city
T121 Trireme
T122 Trireme
T123 Trireme
T124 Trireme
T125 Trireme
T126 Trireme
T127 Trireme
T128 Trireme

Dehli
T121 Catapult2
T122 Worker
T123 Worker
T124 Worker
T125 Wealth
T126 Wealth
T127 Wealth
T128 Wealth

Deergold
T121 Wealth (archer if we give away gold)
T122 Wealth
T123 Wealth
T124 Axe
T125 Axe
T126 Wealth
T127 Wealth
T128 Wealth

Sheeptown
T121 Settler
T122 Settler
T123 Settler
T124 Settler
T125 Wealth
T126 Wealth
T127 Wealth
T128 Wealth

CowTown
T121 Scout Wealth
T122 Wealth
T123 Wealth
T124 Wealth
T125 Wealth
T126 Wealth
T127 Wealth
T128 Wealth

PigGems
T121 Settler (Switch to Gmine from gfarm)
T122 Settler
T123 Worker
T124 Archer (switch to gfarm from gmine)
T125 Wealth
T126 Wealth
T127 Wealth
T128 Wealth

Crabsville
T121 Lighthouse
T122 Lighthouse
T123 Wealth
T124 Wealth
T125 Wealth
T126 Wealth
T127 Wealth
T128 Wealth

Island
T121 Lighthouse
T122 Lighthouse
T123 Wealth
T124 Wealth
T125 Wealth
T126 Wealth
T127 Weatlh
T128 Wealth

FishTown
T121-T128 Wealth

Hamsville
T121 Wealth

LizTown
T121 Wealth

Trojan Horse
T121 wealth, work Cottage

Eiffel
T121-128 Head to Hatty's lands for settler/city support

Fritz
Head to support city/settler in Cyrus's lands.

Hoover
Head off to Hatty's land for city/settler support.

Karl
T121 Move onto galley to join mainland.
T122 Land on the mainland.
T123 Farm wheat 1W of Hammsville

PigGem worker Faraday
T124 Farm 1T west of Deergold.
T125 Farm Wheat 1t
T126 Off to Cyrus's land.

Cowtown Settler
Head toward Genghis's lands. Watch our for Liz Archer.

T121
Send a four axe stack from Sheeptown now to GatewayCity!
Send Argo back to our territory.
Do not move settler in Toku's land one last turn into Hatty's lands.
Send GG to Gateway City

T122
Move Hindu Missionaries toward Gateway city.
Move settler toward Gateway city.
Move workers toward gateway city.
Workers place a road when near end of move if they can do so in a manner to not waste turns.
Karl lands on mainland SW of Deergold

T123
Karl heads to Cyrus's lands and farms one turn on wheat.
Cyrus stack staging at wheat.

T124
Faraday Farms 1W of deergold for one turn.
Keep two axes around Dehli so they can retake LizTown.

T125
GP arrives
If GE, hold for Eng bulb
If GS, hold for Optics bulb
If GP, do not research Monarchy and try to bulb CS.
Move two axes from Dehli 1N1W to take LizTown.
Remove two science specialists from Dehli.

T126
Stop!!
Assess when Liz will have Engineering and decide if stealing this turn is appropriate.
Give away LizTown and Trojan (In that order). Steal Machinery, +/- CoL, flip Liz to Hindu, attack. Consider Retaking Trojan and LizTown.

T127


Slider
0% T121-122 Paper
100% Espionage T123-T125
126 0% (Paper)

International units:
Shaka's/Cyrus' lands:
Scout – Head north up Cyrus' coast.
Settler follow scout.
Missionary Head northeast to catch up with units.
Axeman and spy- head northeast as a group, spy leading
Cook head to coast for garrison for Coastal city if founded.
Workers head to Cyruses west coast following settler.

Hatty's lands:
Hindu missionary 6 explore north to Gateway City
Hindu missionary 7 SW, then NW to Gateway City.
Scout Check out Genghigawa's city, then check out Pig NW of Gateway city.
WATCH OUT FOR Liz Archer.

Consider gold trades every turn after currency discovered.
Check for tech trades.
Check for resource trades for gold.
Accept any demand for techs or gold or resources.
Will consult team for non-Tokugawa demands to war or trade embargo. (Leaning towards Deny)
Will refuse any Tokugawa demands for war or trade embargo.

Resource Trades:
??? for Fish
Gold to Genghisgawa

Stopping Points:
Coastal settling site found by Cyrus
Meet a new AI!
Unexpected War Dec
Random Hindu spread to Elizagawa, or a major city of Hammarugawa's or Tokugawa's
Elizagawa won't take LizTown or Trojan for some reason
Unexpected event occurs.

Every Turn:
Save Game at Begin and end turn.
Zoomed out culture display
See if Hindu spread randomly
Trade and resource opportunities
If AI not at war are in WHEOOHRN mode

 

[shulec]

Someone please check for errors.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Hey guys, I am sorry to do this, but I have to pass on the rest of the turns of my turnset. I really didn't have the time for the last week that I have spent on the turnset. I definitely don't have any more time going forward. TThe next few turns seem quite complex based on all the discussion I just got through. I did two PPPs and don't have time for a third. Sorry. I hope the next player can step up!

Edit: Not to mention taking some serious heat from my wife!

Thanks for the hard work!

Sorry I dropped a hand grenade into your lap. You believed WastinTime's warning and steered us into the clear.


Every turn it feels like the game gets even more complicated. We are approaching some kind of Civ event horizon if it gets any worse.

 

[shulec]

Here is a backup plan for getting Genghigawa a Hindu city: Finish setter in PigGems. Make the long trip up toward Giza. If there is a border pop in Heliopos or Giza, closing off the teleport spot SW of Giza, we may be able to get this settler teleported 2N1W of Gateway City. We could then move NW and settle on Pigs, spread Hinduism and gift to Genhigaswa.

Admittedly, it is doubtful that we could swing this, but I offer it as a backup in case we lose CornTown before we can gift it to genghigawa.