There is a window of time where, if we closed Toku-Hats borders, Hatty would have no access to our cities. Would that make her drop plans to attack us? and go after toku? or someone else? Then maybe when we found the corn/coastal city, it won't be a target?
I think this sounds like a really good idea. It works better if Hatty's stack teleports to her land. If her stack is turning around, we should definitely consider this.
I think this sounds like a really good idea. It works better if Hatty's stack teleports to her land. If her stack is turning around, we should definitely consider this.
14) Have a scout hang out near Hammy's capital for a Hammarugawa or Shakagawa stack of doom marching down towards us just in case. (Might have to build another one)
We might use Argo trireme to pass through the fort Hammuragawa gently built for his copper and let the trireme go next to the small passage 2N2W of GhostTown. That way, we might get an alarm when Shaka is slowly marching towards us and without use of units that could have better uses like pushing exploration.
Not having a valid target because of lack of access is not a parameter to drop WHEOOH; I've cases of AI's in WHEEOH during millenia because they lacked Astro or a land route because of mountains to see them DoW us one moment or another.
I reiterate the nice post I linked. That is the only way to push Hatshegawa to forget us and the means are pretty limited.
^That was indeed just happening by coincidence as the mechanics for exiting WHEOOHRN are totally independent of changes in the target's power --> you can delete ALL of your units and they still might switch out of WHEOOHRN!
To my knowledge there are only 2 situations that make AIs drop their war preparations:
They are preparing for a total war against a land target and lack the necessary offensive units; this judgement solely depends on the number (not strength) and UnitAI of their units in relation to the number and size of their cities (Saladin in ALC#24).
They get DoW'd on by someone else before they start their planned war.
Peace treaties as a result of one-sided trades (give help, accept demands) will only postpone war.
Possibilities are rather limited:
Gift them happy and health resources so that they can grow fatter with larger cities (success is rather uncertain), or even gift them a city . Also there is the risk (and no way to tell for sure) that they might have skipped the revocable preparation phase (WARPLAN_PREPARING_TOTAL) due to using Dagger strategy (immediate WARPLAN_TOTAL).
We might use Argo trireme to pass through the fort Hammuragawa gently built for his copper and let the trireme go next to the small passage 2N2W of GhostTown. That way, we might get an alarm when Shaka is slowly marching towards us and without use of units that could have better uses like pushing exploration.
The axes keep the city? The scouts all tend towards Cyrusgawa for more exploration.
Argo trireme will remain next to the small passage where Shakagawa might let his SoD pass.
Missionary next Ulundi has no use? A ridge of mountains was supposed because of the weird culture plot on sea. Go east.
Screenshot #4 tells everything.
We need to improve the wheat for either 2 or trade use.
How fast can we found CornTown; I mulled over this and found a way to shave a turn. See the picture. Each turn counts as I don't know the real culture bank of Alexandria. With the micro, we found CornTown on T126. The obvious path gives T127 because of the mountains that forces to deviate inefficiently and the bad road patterns. I rely of what we see, not possible new roads that might appear while deepening Hatshegawa's lands.
I suppose the missionary in Memphis wants to uncover Akhetaton, the city still in fog.
I suggest we switch back to slavery on T123. Might delay a switch to Caste System but I think we want options to whip more military for Hatse. For example we could set up a 2 pop whip of a barracks in SheepTown. Or a 2 pop whip of a sword followed by a spear or something like that. Or a 2 pop whip of a spy somewhere.
Yes please don't call the new city near Numidian SheepTown. Yes the axes defend Northern port.
Fritz's job is chopping in Northern Port, and we might not send more units WEST, so I agree roads are of doubtful use.
The worker that is 1 turn from completion in PigsGems can help with the wheat allowing the worker on the boat to go help chop for Northern Port.
Good job on shortening the walk time to the future CornTown site.
Espionage
We may want to delay the stealing attempts to rack up much more espionage if she is going to research optics for us.
We want more spies or... want to consider leaving one or both of the cities in LizGawa's possession so we can get more stealing opportunities. There are problems with this of course. We want to be at war with Lizgawa to continue racking up shared war bonuses. So we still want to DoW her immediately probably, and so Liz would likely buy a longbow to defend herself unless we flipped her out of Universal Sufferage.
We could potentially delay the DoW until we organized the spies necessary to flip her to Hinduism and out of Universal Sufferage. Then we can DoW and steal from her again. But we must be at war with her if the teleportation trick is going to work on t129? or t130?
Quote:
Originally Posted by WastinTime
There is a window of time where, if we closed Toku-Hats borders, Hatty would have no access to our cities. Would that make her drop plans to attack us? and go after toku? or someone else? Then maybe when we found the corn/coastal city, it won't be a target?
(yes, I'm suggesting the embargo...again
I think this sounds like a really good idea. It works better if Hatty's stack teleports to her land. If her stack is turning around, we should definitely consider this.
I suggest we switch back to slavery on T123. Might delay a switch to Caste System but I think we want options to whip more military for Hatse. For example we could set up a 2 pop whip of a barracks in SheepTown. Or a 2 pop whip of a sword followed by a spear or something like that. Or a 2 pop whip of a spy somewhere.
The delay of Caste System is as much as three turns; in 4 turns from T122, we get our next GPeople and if luck is our side (if ever we want more Optics than Engineering; AI's tend to get Engineering way more often than Optics) a GScientist may spawn, then we shall use the scientist for Optics bulbing. Paper bulb is weaker to my sense even though DanF assumed the teamed AI aren't Toku (map trade).
In the present situation, paper is useless. And given the cost and discounts (unless we get a hold on CS) are the same for both techs, then there is no savings. Well, perhaps 6 beakers already invested on paper if we bulb Optics.
Sad thing the whale is out of access for a long on island city; good resource trade or simply another happy resource for more whipping. Farther view over sea is good too if ever we unknown civ culture fringes.
Ok, I derail to simply say, within 4 turns, it would be nice Toku gets his @$$ out of our lands, so we might steal techs, preferably Machinery and Compass. Unless we don't mind the GScientist (if ever) to sit there.
If we get CoL within this 4 turns, we get Philosophy, and pacifism is not very attractive to me; we're in the latest stage of our game. Supposing Gscientist possibility, CoL should be get 4 turns later or more, which makes a maximum waiting to switch into cast system of 2 turns. Not so bad.
I think it is fine. Fritz will start chopping as the same time of WestPort foundation. The forest sourth to the sheep preferably first to let the other forest spread onto that riverside Ghill if we get the chance. If I forget, not a big deal.
When is the question. I think it is better for victory goals as soon as one turn invested in wheat. And it works very well along the fact we didn't road that hill. Because once the next turn is hit, it takes exactly 3 turns to the FW to cross Hammuragawa lands. When landing the hill, the remaining moves was exactly 1/6.
The other worker out of PigGems will take care of remaining turns for the wheat. I don't think health resource is a pressing issue now, but later yes. Unless we need badly to share resources, but we haven't met the unknown team yet (if Toku is included).
Espionage
We may want to delay the stealing attempts to rack up much more espionage if she is going to research optics for us.
We want more spies or... want to consider leaving one or both of the cities in LizGawa's possession so we can get more stealing opportunities. There are problems with this of course. We want to be at war with Lizgawa to continue racking up shared war bonuses. So we still want to DoW her immediately probably, and so Liz would likely buy a longbow to defend herself unless we flipped her out of Universal Sufferage.
Good point about the longbow bought. Do we really need to get her out of US? All we need is to post guards (even a catapult can capture a non defended city IIRC) next to the cities and once the stealings are done, then capture the city. Unless the culture is transferred while gifting and being enough to not get crushed culturally by our culture...
The axeman+catapult squad 1N1W to gold tile (or 2S of CowTown) is going to be too late for joining the rest of the SoD for EastPort (only the lone catapult may join), so why not use them for recapturing the cities. Indeed, we NEED to test if the cities are going to gain some personal tiles or be completely absorbed by our principal cities. If not absorbed enough, once the reDoW, the units will bump sadly.
Next turn, we will see for sure what is her agenda. So my goal for tonight is to get T122 done and make some forwarding discussions about it.
EDIT: Ah yes. Indeed we need to rack more EP before getting enough for multiple stealings. We 151 now. I see T126 is the critical moment for stealing, right in time wih the GPeople.
We could potentially delay the DoW until we organized the spies necessary to flip her to Hinduism and out of Universal Sufferage. Then we can DoW and steal from her again. But we must be at war with her if the teleportation trick is going to work on t129? or t130?
I'm convinced teleportation trick will work on T130. But I think I will remake the test game exactly like the real game to make real testing. But testings in that way are really not pressing affair until 4-5 turns later.
Here's a minor thing. You're probably planning to explore that tiny, unrevealed patch of Hatty's land east of the "LizArcher" spot. My thought is: Let's plan to have a unit somewhere around there, on the coast, when we get Optics. The extra water visibility might be enough to get us contact if someone is down there. I can't think of another location where we might be able to do this up in Cyrus' area, but look around for one.
Here's a minor thing. You're probably planning to explore that tiny, unrevealed patch of Hatty's land east of the "LizArcher" spot. My thought is: Let's plan to have a unit somewhere around there, on the coast, when we get Optics. The extra water visibility might be enough to get us contact if someone is down there. I can't think of another location where we might be able to do this up in Cyrus' area, but look around for one.
Flip Lizagawa after tech robbery to avoid diplo hit with mainly Genghisgawa. Land exploration is not absolute necessary according to bcool though. Though updating the situation, looks like the land is forming a peninsula along Cyrusgawa and Genghisgawa.
Important Points:
Bribe Hatty to close borders with Toku (at one point; our SoD will reckon if any tracking back).
Trade Gold to Genghigawa. Get gold from Hammuragawa or take unhappiness in Dehli and PigGems.
Wait Genghisgawa becomes CAUTIOUS to Lizagawa before DoWing again. Otherwise OB will lag too long!! I think Liz Hindu switch is the real action to avoid diplo hit.
CITIES
Spoiler:
Delhi
T122 Spy James Bond
T123 Spy James Bond
T124 Wealth or military unit
T125 Wealth or military unit
T126 Wealth or military unit
T127 Wealth or military unit
T128 Wealth or military unit
DeergoldNEW
T122 Spy Wealth
T123 Spy [There is an invested turn in road SE of Deergold; using Karl in boat to finish this road, the spy will arrive to LizTown T125; then Karl will start the wheat tile using 5/6 of its move]
Wealth
T124 Archer (happy cap soon) or wealth if in financial need Wealth / if not perhaps an axe
I purportedly slowed down on T123 to see if unhappiness arises.
T125 Wealth
T126 Hindu Missionary
T127 Hindu Missionary
T128 Wealth
Sheeptown
T122 Spy (38/40 )NEW
T123 Barracks (invest 19 working a cottage instead of GH)
T124 Barracks ( whipping for max OF into spy / 43 OF)
T125 Spy again (38/40 + 43 OF + 14 organic hammers --> 15 :wealth: )
T126 Sword/cata (possibly 54 or higher with pop growth)
T127 (GA ending) Sword/Cata
T128 Sword/Cata (No more Slavery; instead Caste System)
Crabsville
T122 Lighthouse NEW
T123 Hindu Monastery [crabs, banana, rGH, marble] (still maintained, sorry!)
T124 Hindu Monastery [crabs, marble; whipping civic change; OF of 10 ]
T125 Hindu Temple [20/80 ]
T126 Hindu Temple [Whipping 1 pop] Not necessary as OF makes the job well.
T127 Hindu Temple
T128 Wealth
Island
T122 Wealth NEW
T123 Wealth
T124 Lighthouse
T125 Lighthouse finished with OF and organic production.
T126 archer for one turn
T127 wealth
T128 wealth until unhappiness is about to arise.
FishTown
T122-T128 Wealth
HamsvilleNEW
T122 Wealth
T124 Wealth
T125 Hindu temple
T126 Hindu temple whip as non improved tile is far inferior. Few OF.
T128 Wealth
T129 Wealth
T130 Wealth
T131 Wealth
T132 Wealth
LizTown
T122 Wealth
Gifting to be determined but likely after 4 turns or more (need more EP and other reasons).
Trojan Horse
T122 wealth, work Cottage
Gifting to be determined but likely after 4 turns or more (need more EP and other reasons).
T124 - Work a GH from SheepTown for a turn
T125 - Same cottage as before.
T126 - Danger of being captured if gifted to Lizagawa unless captured in the same turn, which we don't want to milk stealing.
Westport NEW
T124 trireme
T125 trireme
T126 trireme (switch from forest under GA to sheeps for exact 6 turns growth
T127 trireme
T128 trireme (hire artist to take control of hills and ensure sheeps)
T129 trireme
T130 - trireme done thanks to second chop.
T131 - another trireme
T132 trireme
EastportNEW
T126 trireme / Spread Hindu!
T127 trireme
T128 trireme
T129 trireme / Border pop
T130 trireme / Control two forests
T131 ? (the workers will road the FGH and then start to mine the copper; it avers fort isn't as awesome as a city with natural roading under city tile; makes a vs in worker turn of 4 vs 6; mine+2roads win)
T132 ? (mine copper mine)
After the trireme, perhaps a fast WB as the clam is in the ocean (worldbuilded indeed), Hatshegawa boats won't touch it...ever!
WORKERS
Spoiler:
Eiffel Hoover
T121-128 Head to Hatty's lands for settler/city support
Head off to Hatty's land for city/settler support.
T122 - Road next to cow (see screenshot) [Settler path]
T123 - Road 2E of Rice [Settler path]
T124 - Road 1S1W of Memphis (SoD path)
T125 - Road 1S1W of previous road (SoD path)
T126 - Road 1N1E of Memphis
T127 - Road 1N1E of last road.
T128-T129 - Go onto forest hill of EastPort at 5/6 of move.
T130 - Road (will help to save one turn for moving onto it but can help her SoD to accede us faster.
T131 - Road either copper of forest. Start possibly a fort on copper; depends of situation! T132 - Idle FW until T126 unless hire an artist or use the missionary and then switch to OR to chop another one for replacing the older one. If the missionary spread at T126, then we can start improving copper at T131. But risk is non negligible with Hatshegawa.
Changes may occur in the game if I find something better. Fort earlier the better. Mine+2 roads won!
Fritz
Head to support city/settler in Cyrus's lands.
Chop forest 1S1W of WestPort first.
Karl
T122 Move galley near mainland and Land the worker. T123 Road 1S1E of DeerGold to help the new spy to go faster to LizTown.
T123 - Farm Wheat
T124 Off to WestPort (if necessary?)
T129 - Onto forest (quite late to the party when we founded WestPort T124)
T130 - Start chopping.
PigGem worker Faraday
T124 Farm 1T west of Deergold.
T125 Farm Wheat 1t
T126 Off to WestPort.
Delhi worker Zeeman
T124-127 - Mine the GH 1N1E of crabsville
T128 - Mine one turn next to the last hill
T129-132 - Mine rGH by crabsville.
T126
GP arrives If GE, hold for Eng bulb or Machinery. This seriously needs discussion. If GS, hold for Optics bulb If GP, do not research Monarchy and try to bulb CS.
Move two axes from Dehli 1N1W to take LizTown.
Remove two science specialists from Dehli.
Give away LizTown and Trojan (In that order). Steal Machinery, +/- CoL, flip Liz to Hindu, attack. Consider Retaking Trojan and LizTown.
Slider
100% Espionage T122-T125 [T122 100% espionage because we want to know what Liz is up to]
126 0% (Paper)
International units:
For T122 : See screenshots
Relies heavily on these screenshots.
Trireme next to crabsville will go to 1S2W of Island City.
Magellan boat active every turn for instant improvement of fishes.
Sheep's cloth (Spy from SheepTown on T125) will go one tile out of Trojan Horse.
James Bond (Delhi on T124) will go either in LizTown or be ready to jump in on T126.
But people are mentioning for many posts about an archer that belongs to Liz, where is it?
Espionage
T123-125 Full espionage slider.
Will accumulate realistically 756 , but wants ideally 789
Do not start with flipping to Hindu lest we lose 40% of espionage discout.
Resource Trades and trades in general:
Cyrusgawa has another GPT. Renegotiate cows or use pigs (if ever he improved cows meanwhile).
(T123) Trade meditation with Toku for 30 .
(T123-24-25) Possible trade of monotheism for 30 or higher.
Civics
T123 - Switch to slavery. Uses will be determined. Temple was favored instead of monastery, but I still favor both because crabs is mainly working unimproved tiles. Other uses will be determined.
T128 - Switch to CoL for hiring artists in Westport (to possible gain faster the sheep vs AI library) and in eastport for gaining those those juicy forests near Alexandria.
Stopping Points:
Coastal settling site found by Cyrus
Meet a new AI!
Unexpected War Dec or Shakagawa SoD.
Random Hindu spread to Elizagawa, or a major city of Hammarugawa's or Tokugawa's
Elizagawa won't take LizTown or Trojan for some reason
Unexpected event occurs.
GPeople popping on T126. Alexandria pops its third cultural border!
Hammuragawa stops the holy war.
T130 - How to distribute XPs from the GG and get itself attached to a unit for cheaper upgrade than trireme. NEW
Every Turn:
Save Game at Begin and end turn.
Zoomed out culture display
See if Hindu spread randomly
Trade and resource opportunities
If AI not at war are in WHEOOHRN mode
Consider gold trades every turn after currency discovered.
Check for tech trades.
Check for resource trades for gold.
Accept any demand for techs or gold or resources.
Will consult team for non-Tokugawa demands to war or trade embargo. (Leaning towards Deny)
Will refuse any Tokugawa demands for war or trade embargo.
Follow Hatshegawa's SoD as much as possible! Predict moment of DoW.
Probably theories have already been emitted in this way, but who is the founder of Islam? Looking every Toku we have, either they lack one of the two pre-requisite or they haven't tech it yet.
Unless islam is founded due to the same bug (Buddism already founded at the start), around 200 BC, someone has founded islam and it looks the team AI. Indeed, that looks quite a super advanced team, with a religious civ...
Looking Shakagawa lands and Hatshegawa's ones both have a single city with islam. I infer the team is connected by some route and situated in middle north.
Just like the last SGOTM, the last boss of the game is a the opposite of our civ. The last boss was the wizard. Neil seems to keep a certain pattern of game...
More updates later.
I won't get access to any computer for a while (6-8 hours).
One of the last question: What are the intents of those three missionaries? Simple one to Genghisgawa and both member of the team.
Probably theories have already been emitted in this way, but who is the founder of Islam? Looking every Toku we have, either they lack one of the two pre-requisite or they haven't tech it yet.
Unless islam is founded due to the same bug (Buddism already founded at the start), around 200 BC, someone has founded islam and it looks the team AI. Indeed, that looks quite a super advanced team, with a religious civ...
Looking Shakagawa lands and Hatshegawa's ones both have a single city with islam. I infer the team is connected by some route and situated in middle north.
[/COLOR]
The first civilization to meditation founded another religion other than buddhism since Buddhism was already founded. So it follows that the person who founded Islam is the civilization that researched the 2nd to last religious tech. So Divine Right has in all likelihood not been researched by the AI team, but they did found Islam.
The GG I believe is going to CornTown or EastPort since it is closer. I figured on its way there it could likely track Hatsegawa's stack and still make it in time.
If the GG can get to WestPort faster and in sync with when we expect to have optics finished and a boat then maybe WestPort is better. If so I wouldn't follow Hatsegawa's stack with the GG.
Thanks. I vaguely remember your first tests about christianity out of mediation...
But why necessarily the team being the founder of islam?
I see philosophy is won by Lizagawa. CoL was possibly won by the same too.
Do anyone have recollection whom get Theology? While making contact who did have theology?
----------------
Goal of today: make a turn to know what Lizagawa up to.
So stay tuned.
In regards to PPP format, don't expect complete PPP, because I won't make it; I prefer to remain flexible to many changes that could. Main tactics/strategies that requires long preparation beforehand will be written down, but specifics that can changes freely may not be put on PPP when occuring 10 turns later. We are at a stage of a finishing game where many builds are wealth (for helping stealing, etc.) and units/diplo control are main objective. I don't want to feed a complete PPP if I have to wait two-three days before committing playing and oops that event just screwed the PPP in a radical way.
Peace.
Let's get to work now.
@WastinTime You can ask DanF directly; he's very helpful person to person. a.k.a. Nope I haven't a clue of localization inner working.
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. Also there is the risk (and no way to tell for sure) that they might have skipped the revocable preparation phase (WARPLAN_PREPARING_TOTAL) due to using Dagger strategy (immediate WARPLAN_TOTAL).
or trade use. 
now. I see T126 is the critical moment for stealing, right in time wih the GPeople. 
.
)
