SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

Ok PPP is basically done, I need to look at resource trades and would appreciate a little feedback there.

I can play as early as 12 hours from now if there is general agreement. If not I can play in 36 hours.

PPP goal oriented T133-T143 waiting for feedback
The Rush to Banking!


Research
T134 0% paper
Trade machinery to Hammuragawa for monarchy and 30 gold
T135 100% guilds (after successful stealing of feudalism)
ceasefire with Liz, gift her LizTown, steal Feudalism, (a 3rd spy will be able to jump in on T135 if the bad luck strikes twice)
T136-T141 100% guilds
T142-T143 100% banking

Civic Changes
I will switch to Paganism on T134 to save a few gold. We are not going to benefit from theocracy over the next 5 turns at least.
I plan to stay in Caste System so I can get a low odds Great Merchant in SheepTown to potentially bulb banking for us. Once we get the great Person in SheepTown I will switch to slavery and Organized religion and whip a library or 2 if it makes sense. I will assess how close we are and if building research is better I will not switch to slavery and organized religion. Also I need to be ready to switch to Mercantilism as soon as I can.

Diplomacy
give currency to north Team AI for +4 fair trade bonues
Give machinery to south Team AI for +4 fair trade bonuses
(I'm avoiding giving them theocracy, on the off chance them running theocracy makes our spreading options more limited)
Will Accept any demand for techs or resources but refuse demands for our gold. (consult team if possible on any denials)
Will Deny any demands to go to war or trade embargo.
Beg Hammuragawa for spare gold on T139.

I will use the AP vote for peace with Hatsegawa if she declares on us. Otherwise vote to assign TrojanHorse to us and then vote against to get +2 relations with Tokugawa?

ceasefire with Liz and gifting her LizTown (Liz is the worst enemy of Tokugawa so this is going to ruin our relationship with Tokugawa)

On T135 beg Hatsegawa for 10 gold again (small chance of success, but if successful keep EastPort)
If T135 beg of Hatsegawa is unsuccessful gift EastPort to Genghisgawa after ungrading trireme to caravel and loading the missionary.
This should prevent a DoW by Hatsegawa.

resource trading plans
aggressive gifting of resources to Genghisgawa after we get +2 relations with Hammuragawa. DoW will ruin the chances of getting OB with Genghisgawa? Or should we still do this in hopes we can get Genghisgawa into mercantilism too? Or in the hopes that Settler16 finds a site that we can liberate to Genghisgawa.

Unit Plans

Traveler comes back to scout area SW of Island

Still no upgrade of Argo because every penny counts in our effort towards Banking

Use GG in EastPort to attached to the trireme we are building there all by itself. Use 20 xp to promote trireme to give it +3 movement, move 1E, upgrade to caravel, load missionary. I don't think it is necessary to split the xp with a mace or attach the GG to an axe for a free upgrade.

Settler16 heads north and tries to find a location that would be a liberation site to Genghisgawa to get him to pleased for OB and future diplomatic options. (perhaps where scout3 is, NE of the copper that Genghisgawa is improving)

trireme with GG upgraded to caravel T135 with 6 movement. This caravel will move SE, S and scout a route to the southern Team AI and get circumnavigation bonus.

Settler 15 needs a useful plan...Will still head to 6W of New Sarai as a potential gift city to Genghisgawa on the slim chance that Hatsegawa accepts our beg attempt. If the beg attempt is unsuccessful will head back to WestPort and wait there until there is some purpose found for him.

Missionary in Babylon heads to WestPort to hang out.

Magellan explores mountains for access to Northern AI.

Build up a SoD on Toku and Hatsegawa's border so we are ready to take Hatsegawa's coastal city? If we prevent her declaration on us we might have to initiate this ourselves and cause problems with Hammuragawa...

EastPort Units
assuming no DoW with Hatsegawa due to city gift to Genghisgawa of EastPort I will
on T135 disband Axe 1,2, 4, and 5 (low xp units not worth their upkeep) after I'm sure there is no war

Mace 3, catapult 4, De Soto, Sword1, Amundsen will head south to join our SoD targeting Hatsegawa's coastal city.

Units associated with Hatsegawa coastal city targeted SoD
Axe 6, Catapult 1 & 6 will continue on to join stack on the border between tokugawa and Hatsegawa near Hatsegawa's coastal city

Axe7, spear 2, spear 1, mace 2, all continue on to join Hatsegawa targeted SoD

near Delhi, mace 3 and 4 will continue on to joing Hatsegawa targeted SoD

Mace 1, Sword 2, Catapults 2,3,5, &10 will continue on to form Hatsegawa's targeted SoD

Other units
Archer 2 will garrison as MP for Delhi

Archer 1 will MP in CowTwon

Scout 2 and 4 in Cyrusgawa's lands will disband (they have basically explored all they can)

Scout 3 will remain in the hopes that a potential city liberation and resources will eventually get Genghisgawa to pleased even with the added DoW penalties.

Axe 11 will set up to take LizTown

Axe 8 will disband (0 xp)

Ferry and Galley 2 will remain forming a galley chain to Island

Espionage
switch espionage to Liz on T134 (this is just the 4 base espionage that we get every turn, might as well target Liz)

Spies in LizTown steal Feudalism T135 (spies 6 and 8)

One spy remains in TrojanHorse, the other spy, spy4, moves towards LizTown and a 4th spy that we really hope won't be necessary. If not needed in LizTown will keep going to Hamsville for eventual switch of Hammuragawa to hinduism and out of theocracy if necessary for increasing his votes after the diplo win vote is called.

Spy up in Genghisgawa's land continues to explore as long as he lives. He pays particular attention to the ice and what the ice blocks.

spy 7 moves towards LizTown as backup. If spy 6 and 8 are successful, spy 7 will move on to Hammsville.

So Flipping Hammuragawa to Hinduism the turn of the vote increases his vote, but I don't think we really need this do we?
If I understand this correctly we are going to need to whip down below 75% of the Hindu vote before the turn of the vote so that the diplo win option comes up. We can manipulate this so that the votes Hammuragawa has will push us over the 75% limit. Might be difficult so flipping him to Hinduism or converting a few of his cities to Hinduism might make this easier. However we risk getting a diplo hit with Hammuragawa if we attempt espionage missions against him--but that doesn't matter if we do it on the turn of the vote! So we want spies that have no risk of being caught before the vote. That means we want to station a few spies in HammuCity so we can gift that to him and then flip him to either the Hindu Religion on the turn of the vote or Organized Religion and then spread Hinduism to a few of his cities.

City builds

Need to assess if it makes sense to whip a courthouse or library somewhere to help the guilds and banking research. Delaying switch to slavery until T141 (until great person in sheeptown is born)

In general I will build wealth in all cities while researching to Banking. However with some disbanding and switching to pagaism we will likely be able to build research in several cities. I will do this so that we get Banking as quickly as possible.

Delhi (hires merchant) wealth
DeerGold wealth
SheepTown (Corn, Sheep, Gold, 3 merchants) Wealth (running merchants so we have a shot at a low Odds great Merchant on T141)
CowTown wealth
PigsGems Wealth
Crabsville Wealth (continues working unimproved banana instead of coastal tile)
Island settler Wealth then Research (if we need this settler we can whip after our push to banking is over)
Trojan Horse wealth
HammuTown wealth
LizTown wealth
Bombay (renamed FishTown) wealth
WestPort Wealth then Research, put caravel build on hold (I thought we might need a galley here but it doesn't look like that will be useful for a long time. We can start a galley later and set up a whip of a galley/galleon later if we really need it here)
I intend to keep WestPort because we need our culture up here to upgrade to a galleon. It is insurance in case the banking path doesn't work for some reason.

EastPort Trireme (working unimproved copper) T134 trireme build will finish with chop.
T135 giving EastPort to Genghisgawa after trireme is attached to GG and upgraded to caravel and missionary is loaded on.

Workers (need to look at this)
Eiffel and Hoover return home after chopping out trireme for Eastport on T134
One stays if we get a beg from Hatsegawa, otherwise both return home.

Faraday, builds a cottage for the capital, then goes to improve bananas and a route to them.

Fritz and Karl build a mine for WestPort then one of them heads home.
The other builds a 2nd mine. After the 2nd mine is built the other will come home.

Great People
attempt to get GreatMerchant/Great Prophet in SheepTown. Will run 3 merchants in SheepTown for a low odds great merchant on T141. That could accelerate the quest for guilds/banking by a few turns since we could build research instead of wealth after a trade mission. Bulbing banking is also possible.

Checklist
Save Game at Beginning and end of each turn.
check Zoomed out culture display
See if Hindu spread randomly
look for new Trade and resource opportunities
check if AI not at war are in WHEOOHRN mode
Check for tech trades.
Check for resource trades for gold.
Check to see if Tokugawa and Hatsegawa have Open Borders each turn
 
Check every turn for Toku and Hatshegawa relationship: verify if they OB once again.

Beg at some point Hammuragawa for little more cash. Possibly 5 turns later from now.
 
Re: PPP

We should strongly consider giving into cash demands from most AI. We can alternate between 0% and 100% research to keep cash levels low so there are no big cash demands.

bcool goes all the time 100 % science slider; no binary research.
 
Can someone test if galleys can go into ocean tiles after astronomy? I thought it was only workboats that could do this.
(tested by Tachy, thanks -- answer is no)
I added checking for Tokugawa's and Hatsegawa's OB relationship to the checklist

re: cash demands
We are building up gold for only 1 turn (we can not research guilds this turn so we must build up gold) and then slowly using it over the course of the run to Banking. There will not be option to keep gold reserves low unless we want to sacrifice our tech pace.
Things may change and a gold demand might be something we can manage. But giving into a cash demand likely means that we delay our acquisition of Banking which could push our victory to T166 instead of T156.
In almost every case I think denying the gold demand is in our best interest. Of course I will consult with the team if it happens.
 
resource trading plans
aggressive gifting of resources to Genghisgawa after we get +2 relations with Hammuragawa. DoW will ruin the chances of getting OB with Genghisgawa? Or should we still do this in hopes we can get Genghisgawa into mercantilism too? Or in the hopes that Settler16 finds a site that we can liberate to Genghisgawa.

I think we need to get open borders with Genghigawa. I am worried about needing to pull some galley/galleon teleport tricks to get around it.
 
Diplomacy
give currency to north Team AI for +4 fair trade bonues
Give machinery to south Team AI for +4 fair trade bonuses
(I'm avoiding giving them theocracy, on the off chance them running theocracy makes our spreading options more limited)

I don't know the mechanics of decaying fair trade bonuses. I know whenever I first meet an overseas AI, I can usually get +4 fair trade bonus from a small cash gift. It quickly decays. I wonder if the same is true of any gift given up meeting the AI. Possibly, we would be better off giving the cash gift now and the tech gifts in 3-5 turns.

I will try to test now and report my findings.

Gift of 10 gold +2 diplo
Gift of 20 gold +4 diplo, decayed to 0 after 7T
Gift of 50 gold +4 diplo, decayed to 0 after 19T
Gift of currencty. +4 diplo, decayed to +3 after 29 turns, decayed to +2 after 10 more turns

Conclusion, I agree with tech gifts.
 
I think we need to get open borders with Genghigawa. I am worried about needing to pull some galley/galleon teleport tricks to get around it.

We could close borders with a member of the AP this turn (legal only for Shaka or Cyrus), choose "OB with members" AP resolution, gift EastPort to Genghis T135 and the (successful) vote will pertain to him T136. That will also get us OB back with the person with whom we closed. Cyrus looks like the obvious candidate for this approach, because if it fails to work we don't care very much.

Alternatively, Liz bribed Genghis to DOW Toku, so we could DOW Toku at some point to get Genghis OB. That would incur a penalty with Hammu, but maybe with Banking on the way we could afford this.
 
If we do the AP-OB plan on Genghis, then the PPP should maybe save a Cyrus scout (or two) to finish scouting Genghis territory. Otherwise PPP looks good - play when ready.
 
We could close borders with a member of the AP this turn (legal only for Shaka or Cyrus), choose "OB with members" AP resolution, gift EastPort to Genghis T135 and the (successful) vote will pertain to him T136.

Sadly this won't work. It will cancel the vote.
It's a shame we were not able to get OB with Genghis by t136 after having OB with Hatty t116.
 
The OB vote might come up even without closing borders with Cryrusgawa because of the bug. But WastinTime suggests that it is impossible to gift Genghisgawa the city on T135 and still have Genghisgawa affected by the OB.

Should I try the OB vote anyways?

I will gift the resources to Genghisgawa assuming that we might want to get OB with him. Assuming there is a very difficult route to the team AI we might need it. Hopefully with resources and a liberation and/or sharing mercantilism we will eventually get OB.

Not getting OB with Genghisgawa is probably not the end of the world however. Once we get him to be a member of the AP religion we likely will not have to do anything more with him.
 
Unless someone stops me, I plan to play in 1 hour. I'll look at what resources I can give Genghisgawa...

Hmm, okay we are already giving Genghisgawa 4 resources
He might accept crab, fish, sheep, cows however I don't know if this will be necessary.

Currently we are at +3 (with +1 from sharing resources already) So we are at the most 12 turns away from +2 from sharing resources.

Liberation might bring another +1 (but there is doubt this will work)

Sharing mercantilism will be another +1 (earliest will be T142 if we get the great merchant and he switches immediately and he techs feudalism himself)

another DoW will be another -1

So we are getting OB with Genghisgawa on T142 (best case scenario)
More realistically we are getting OB with Genghisgawa on T154 or later depending on if he ever techs feudalism.

Conclusion: I don't have to gift him more resources than the 4 he is already getting.
 
The OB vote might come up even without closing borders with Cryrusgawa because of the bug. But WastinTime suggests that it is impossible to gift Genghisgawa the city on T135 and still have Genghisgawa affected by the OB.

Should I try the OB vote anyways?

....
The total OB resolution?
The one that could OB between Hatshegawa and Toku again...:(

Sorry to be lost again. What bug. Where is his suggestion?

BTW, that resolution was available during my turnset (but didn't have use without Hindu in Genghis lands). So, no need to close border, right?

4. Open Borders
Prerequisite: The Resident or a Full Member currently does not have an Open Border treaty with one or more Full Members.
If passed, all Members now have Open Borders with each other.

Unless someone stops me, I plan to play in 1 hour. I'll look at what resources I can give Genghisgawa...

Yes, go on with your turn-set. I read twice your PPP without finding something relevant except those two suggestions ...
 
PPP looks fine.

If we could afford it, I'd say hang onto Axemen and upgrade them as seems prudent, but the extra maintenance is keeping us from an early Banking completion. We can always whip Macemen later as needed to get under the 75% TAP Religion threshold for enabling the RL DV resolution.

I'd be in favor of upgrading Argos and using it to explore southwest, but another Caravel can do same that is probably OK too.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
Okay I will not choose the OB resolution since it sounds like it won't work and if it did work it might jeopardize our good relationship with Hatsegawa.
 
I don't know the mechanics of decaying fair trade bonuses. I know whenever I first meet an overseas AI, I can usually get +4 fair trade bonus from a small cash gift. It quickly decays. I wonder if the same is true of any gift given up meeting the AI. Possibly, we would be better off giving the cash gift now and the tech gifts in 3-5 turns.

I will try to test now and report my findings.

Gift of 10 gold +2 diplo
Gift of 20 gold +4 diplo, decayed to 0 after 7T
Gift of 50 gold +4 diplo, decayed to 0 after 19T
Gift of currencty. +4 diplo, decayed to +3 after 29 turns, decayed to +2 after 10 more turns

Conclusion, I agree with tech gifts.

Sorry, this test has the minor flaw that Currency is worth closer to 500 wealth than 50 or even 100 wealth. I find it surprising that the +4 Fair Trading diplomacy decayed to +3 after only 29t.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
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