SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

[bcool]

Okay will kill missionary in Magellan (in the Shakagawa ocean, will keep the caravel just to explore the last of the fog in that ocean.

Will gift WestPort to Cyrusgawa since we only have +3 trade relations with us.

Will start missionary in CowTown to replace missionary I"m disbanding on Magellan

Switch merchant to mine in DeerGold, will run a merchant in LizTown. Axe 11 to DeerGold.

I don't see the value of the teamAI meeting others. will keep caravel if this option makes sense at some point.

 

[bcool]

Okay new input...

Send army entire army north and forget about taking Hatsegawa's coastal city. Maybe cut through mountains where scout 3 is with a city and galley build?
Workers head north as well?

Instead we are targeting what exactly in the north?

Drop missionary on Magellan in Shaka's lands and have him walk thru Cyrusgawa's lands and head towards Genghisgawa.

Send missionary 8 towards Cyrusgawa as well?

 

[Kaitzilla]

Sorry peeps....... it wasn't a huge surprise though, was it?

Haha, I think deep down we knew it would be more Gawas.

 

[mabraham]

If the Gawas are mountain-bound then the only way we will get Hinduism to them is random spread (can't control it), or via a city gift. Thebes, Ulundi, Bulawayo and maybe some Genghis city might be close enough to do this. The first time we can confirm this is necessary would be down south, so I think our stack staying close to Akhetaten is good - but we'd probably attack Thebes. We'd need to build up a bunch more spears - preferably pikes and trebs. This would not be a fast win.

Then we'd have to decide which of Bulawayo (NE of Ulundi) or a Genghis city would be faster to capture.

 

[mabraham]

Sorry peeps....... it wasn't a huge surprise though, was it?

There were a few competing theories, but the fast border pop from the extra culture buff in the pair's cities admitted of non-Gawa explanations - Creative or Spiritual leaders.

 

[bcool]

continuing, sending Eastport stack and axes from westport towards Genghisgawa

sending missionaries north, not disbanding them.

keeping stack near Hatsegawa's coastal site there for now.

 

[Kaitzilla]

If the Gawas are mountain-bound then the only way we will get Hinduism to them is random spread (can't control it), or via a city gift. Thebes, Ulundi, Bulawayo and maybe some Genghis city might be close enough to do this. The first time we can confirm this is necessary would be down south, so I think our stack staying close to Akhetaten is good - but we'd probably attack Thebes. We'd need to build up a bunch more spears - preferably pikes and trebs. This would not be a fast win.

Then we'd have to decide which of Bulawayo (NE of Ulundi) or a Genghis city would be faster to capture.

Bulawayo looks like it is close enough to gift to the North AI_Team if we owned it. I don't think we can do a random Hindu spread without a trade route being available first. No idea about the south.

We will need to defend the homeland from Shaka in 20 turns or so unless we can get Hammarugawa to not have open borders with Shaka.

 

[mabraham]

Bring units home? Aren't we going to need to send them all to the far north and look for a way to access the north ocean? At least the map is a donut and not the horseshoe I was expecting, so the East and West armies can get north before a war breaks out and borders close. Then join forces.

Don't kill the missionary, just send him with the army.

I'm concerned we won't finish this in time. I'm going to pray for random hindu spreads.

There is only a couple of units at WestPort. They can't do anything without reinforcements, so if they stay alive, coming home is as good as anything. The Magellan missionary is total dead weight. We want a new missionary heading to Akhetaten so that if the GG-caravel spread mission to South is possible and fails (RNG) we can send another one. That caravel may need to head north with yet another missionary ASAP... walking missionaries from the far side of the map is no good.

Our EastPort stack can't do much of anything to Genghis without support, so coming back to join up around Memphis seems reasonable. I think we need to know whether we will have to seek war against Hatse to spread to the South before we want to commit to a military plan. Once our stacks join, it may be faster to send all of our existing units north against Genghis (who lacks Feudalism) and start a new campaign against Hatse (who hopefully DOWs us).

 

[bcool]

access to the south Team AI the Incan Huayanagawa has been found. They are west of Thebes. There is space for a gift city for now (with a barbarian archer. There is a 10 pop city whose borders just popped once and could pop again and we would lose the city gift spot.

 

[mabraham]

We will need to defend the homeland from Shaka in 20 turns or so unless we can get Hammarugawa to not have open borders with Shaka.

Lots can happen between now and about then - but a pile of longbows in DeerGold should be pretty good.

 

[Kaitzilla]

There is only a couple of units at WestPort. They can't do anything without reinforcements, so if they stay alive, coming home is as good as anything. The Magellan missionary is total dead weight. We want a new missionary heading to Akhetaten so that if the GG-caravel spread mission to South is possible and fails (RNG) we can send another one. That caravel may need to head north with yet another missionary ASAP... walking missionaries from the far side of the map is no good.

Our EastPort stack can't do much of anything to Genghis without support, so coming back to join up around Memphis seems reasonable. I think we need to know whether we will have to seek war against Hatse to spread to the South before we want to commit to a military plan. Once our stacks join, it may be faster to send all of our existing units north against Genghis (who lacks Feudalism) and start a new campaign against Hatse (who hopefully DOWs us).

That does make a lot of sense. I am now in favor of deleting the Magellan missionary and building a new one to send towards Hatty's eastern front for the super caravel backup missionary.

 

[WastinTime]

Since the North AI is going to be such a pain, I now think that we'd be better off never fighting with Hats. Our East caravel will have to hang out and wait for OB w/ south AI. It now looks like we won't need to bother with a settler/galleon, because there will be plenty of time.

Seems like the only way to speed up the North AI conversion (other than random spread) is to gift a city over the mountains. Seems like a long way to gift.

 

[Kaitzilla]

access to the south Team AI the Incan Huayanagawa has been found. They are west of Thebes. There is space for a gift city for now (with a barbarian archer. There is a 10 pop city whose borders just popped once and could pop again and we would lose the city gift spot.

Hrmm, if we plant that spare settler between Hatty's and Ghenghis' border, it won't be long before Hatty comes knocking on it (Delcares war on us). Then we could grab her southern port city with her main SoD about as far away from us as possible. Can we use a galley from that city to create a gift city or can it not be reached by galley?

**Edit** I'm not thinking straight. If it could be reached by galley then we would have a trade route. I don't think war with Hatty would speed up the peaceful banking approach if we have to send the 2nd Hindu Missionary to the eastern front through a war zone to infect the north AI

 

[mabraham]

Since the North AI is going to be such a pain, I now think that we'd be better off never fighting with Hats. Our East caravel will have to hang out and wait for OB w/ south AI. It now looks like we won't need to bother with a settler/galleon, because there will be plenty of time.

Seems like the only way to speed up the North AI conversion (other than random spread) is to gift a city over the mountains. Seems like a long way to gift.

If Ake is close enough, then a T150 DOW to take Ake, infect and gift to south, coupled with an OB spread to north might be the only way to win by T156. Having only one caravel on the Hatse ocean is a pain.

We don't know that the north will be unreachable by the GG-caravel.

 

[WastinTime]

Bulawayo, looks like the best shot. I guess Shaka's war on us is not such a bad thing.

 

[bcool]

Okay by settling between Hatsegawa and Genghisgawa getting Hatsegawa to declare on us will avoid more diplo hits. Which might allow OB with Genghisgawa for us in a long while. But if we let Hatsegawa declare on us then we lose that city can can not liberate to Genghisgawa so we are not going to get OB with Genghisgawa for quite sometime...

So avoid war with Hatsegawa... Try to get OB with Genghisgawa by liberating the city to him.

Shaka and Hammuragawa do not have OB right now.

Send the army South to join with the army near Hatsegawa's Akhetaten that looks like it will be giftable to the Incan empire.
If we DoW late and take that city and gift it to Incan empire then maybe we can spread hinduism with the GG caravel going north with its missionary (assuming that there is access to the north Team AI from the Hatsegawa ocean.

So we can win by T156 still possibly but there are big ifs.

The OB plan with Genghisgawa is a backup plan in case we need to go through his lands to find a spot to gift a city to the Northern AI find a way through with a missionary.

 

[bcool]

I can still encourage a war with Shaka by settling settler 15. Then he has a target he can get too. Currently he doesn't have a way to get to us since he still doesn't have OB with Hammuragawa.

Okay disband missionary on Magellan and build one in CowTown

 

[Kaitzilla]

Okay by settling between Hatsegawa and Genghisgawa getting Hatsegawa to declare on us will avoid more diplo hits. Which might allow OB with Genghisgawa for us in a long while. But if we let Hatsegawa declare on us then we lose that city can can not liberate to Genghisgawa so we are not going to get OB with Genghisgawa for quite sometime...

So avoid war with Hatsegawa... Try to get OB with Genghisgawa by liberating the city to him.

Shaka and Hammuragawa do not have OB right now.

Send the army South to join with the army near Hatsegawa's Akhetaten that looks like it will be giftable to the Incan empire.
If we DoW late and take that city and gift it to Incan empire then maybe we can spread hinduism with the GG caravel going north with its missionary (assuming that there is access to the north Team AI from the Hatsegawa ocean.

So we can win by T156 still possibly but there are big ifs.

The OB plan with Genghisgawa is a backup plan in case we need to go through his lands to find a spot to gift a city to the Northern AI find a way through with a missionary.

Declaring against Hatty will net us a -1 with both of the Team_AI won't it? If it does, then we might get a gift city to the south AI, but we won't have open borders with the team_AI until 10 turns later when shared civic reaches +3.

 

[bcool]

Declaring against Hatty will net us a -1 with both of the Team_AI won't it? If it does, then we might get a gift city to the south AI, but we won't have open borders with the team_AI until 10 turns later when shared civic reaches +3.

yes you are right, so we need to get Hatsegawa to declare on us

So use the settler 16 to settle near Hatsegawa (between Genghisgawa and Hatsegawa) at the right time so that she Declares on us around T150

And forget about getting Genghisgawa Openborders for a long time...

 

[mabraham]

yes you are right, so we need to get Hatsegawa to declare on us

So use the settler 16 to settle near Hatsegawa (between Genghisgawa and Hatsegawa) at the right time so that she Declares on us around T150

And forget about getting Genghisgawa Openborders for a long time...

That seems best to me, but we might have to drop this plan and head for a Genghis city or Bulawayo if we see that will be the only way to spread to Mansa.