SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

Manco Capac · May 9, 2012

Can we see a single tile of Mansagawa's lands?
If so, we may (my naive thought) try to teleport a missionary.

DoWing Toku allows OB with Genghisgawa (lost point with Hamma

), but nothing with with the team. After the 10 turns of peace, if the landing tile is a valid point after OB with the team, then the missionary may get there.

Of course, we have to get rid of the nearest neutral tiles first with the settler for example.

But honestly, that's a stupid idea. Lurk mode again.

mabraham · May 9, 2012

Tachywaxon said:
Can we see a single tile of Mansagawa's lands?
If so, we may (my naive thought) try to teleport a missionary.

DoWing Toku allows OB with Genghisgawa (lost point with Hamma ), but nothing with with the team. After the 10 turns of peace, if the landing tile is a valid point after OB with the team, then the missionary may get there.

But honestly, that's a stupid idea. Lurk mode again.

Distance to our nearest city from a prospective teleport tile is a strong component of the formula that chooses the tile. Moses works because Island City is close by. Up north, nothing helps.

Manco Capac · May 9, 2012

mabraham said:
Distance to our nearest city from a prospective teleport tile is a strong component of the formula that chooses the tile. Moses works because Island City is close by. Up north, nothing helps.

Yes, I understood the nearest city component, but I lack the lastest developments, so I don't know if it may work.

But it was just a pitched idea.

EDIT: Looking the screenshot, yeah, no Mansagawa's land unfogged. Sob.

bcool · May 9, 2012

uploaded

Spoiler :

Kaitzilla · May 9, 2012

It appears as if the strip of water between Taras(Cyrus) and Turfan(Ghenghi) probably leads to the North AI.

That means you have to conquer either Hamma->Shaka->Cyrus through chokepoints to reach the north_AI from the west, or Toku->Hatty->Ghenghi through chokepoints to reach the north_Ai from the east. Either way, the north_AI was made to be really hard to reach!

Going to count the tiles for Bullawayo again. It seems like our one chance unless we want to try and push through Ghenghi or Cyrus and hold one of their port cities near their capital until we can produce a caravel with it.

bcool · May 9, 2012

Walter_Wolf ... on deck
mabraham ... in the hole
WastinTime ...waiting
Kaitzilla ... waiting
Tachywaxon ... waiting
shulec ... waiting
bcool ... waiting
Sun Tzu Wu ... UP NOW

bcool · May 9, 2012

Kaitzilla said:
It appears as if the strip of water between Taras(Cyrus) and Turfan(Ghenghi) probably leads to the North AI.

That means you have to conquer either Hamma->Shaka->Cyrus through chokepoints to reach the north_AI from the west, or Toku->Hatty->Ghenghi through chokepoints to reach the north_Ai from the east. Either way, the north_AI was made to be really hard to reach!

Going to count the tiles for Bullawayo again. It seems like our one chance unless we want to try and push through Ghenghi or Cyrus and hold one of their port cities near their capital until we can produce a caravel with it.

Or tech to submarines...

Kaitzilla · May 9, 2012

Great turnset Bcool!

That teleport trick virtually guarantees that our focus can be entirely on infecting the last AI now. We just need to borrow one of Shakagawa's cities for a turn so we can get that T166 win. :crazyeye:

Kaitzilla · May 9, 2012

bcool said:
Or tech to submarines...

If the game blows up on us, I'm all for teching to subs and nukes :nuke:

and having some revenge fun. These Gawas deserve to pay! Once the world population is reduced to 2, I'm sure we could get that wooden spoon.

Kaitzilla · May 9, 2012

Jeez, I sure hope Shaka isn't planning on doing something stupid and declaring on Hammarugawa. He'd lose GhostTown right away, and we would have to infect him again.

Kaitzilla · May 10, 2012

Bulawayo appears to be 8.5 tiles from a North_AI city.

Spoiler :

I guess we will get to test Tachywaxon's statement on an AI not taking a city being threatened inside its BFC if Shaka won't take on our bait city and dogs us with that SoD.

WastinTime · May 10, 2012

Kaitzilla said:
So, we need to invade Shaka and take his northwest coastal city by force I'd say. WastinTime was right again! haha

I appreciate the nod, but I am humbled by the cleverness of this team as well as the knowledge of internal game workings and also the time commitment of testing and playing required to select the right path. I'm just hoping we can get a good final chapter to this amazing story. A memorable game either way. The only crime would have been turtling up and playing this for culture victory.

mabraham · May 10, 2012

Well played bc. Now for the final push!

Sun Tzu Wu · May 10, 2012

Got the save. I won't have a chance to look at the game for at least 12 hours. You are welcome to submit your suggestions for the goal oriented or even detailed PPP.

Sun Tzu Wu

Sun Tzu Wu · May 10, 2012

Great turn set, bcool!

Sun Tzu Wu

bcool · May 10, 2012

suggestions for the turnset

Our stack isn't good enough to take on Shaka alone
Our stack 4 mace, 1 sword, 3 axe, 3 spear, 5? catapults

I suggest slowing the tech of engineering down to 3 turns and
hammsville starts mace
deergold starts mace
pigsgems wealth or catapult for 2 pop whip if can afford it ~~barracks? (nice 2 pop whip there into a catapult?)~~
cowtown starts mace if can afford it (will catch up with creative galley chaining)
Delhi starts mace
(mabraham suggests a few xbows, makes sense not sure where the micro makes sense. I suspect it would be good to build an xbow in cowtown and Hammsville perhaps deergold too)

Misionary 10 follows joins Shaka stack

Follow up stack hangs out next to Akhetaten in case the Moses plan fails.

Leave axes on hill 2E1S of Thebes can check if Incan culture expands -- this will tell us to abort Moses plan

GG caravel carries missionary back down to Akhetaten for backup for Moses plan. If moses plan is successful, disband this missionary and build another one to send Shaka's way.

You can do a low odds beg of Hammuragawa and Toku this turn or next turn (to speed up engineering perhaps) Toku beg was only 6? turns ago so can't get much from him 20 gold? I begged Hammuragawa 4 turns ago?

Give away Shaka Bacon Bit, either shaka was going for Hammuragawa or doesn't know that Shaka Bacon Bit exists. If he isn't taking the bait we have to change plans. Shaka Bacon Bit costs us more than we are getting for it. It might find a purpose though it is costing us about 4 gold/turn? might be worth keeping? I don't know.

switch espionage to Shaka, after engineering is finished, use the espionage slider to get enough espionage to flip Shaka to Hinduism
If Shaka is in Hinduism we can avoid diplo hits with a lot of AI.

On T145 (earlist possible) switch to Theocracy and Feudalism (perhaps delay a whip to get the extra 2 xp from feudalism?)

Consider trading Engineering for aesthetics, horseback riding and gold from Hammuragawa, might not be worth it but need the gold for espionage slider perhaps.

Check every turn to see if Hamm or Genghis researches feudalism, if so give Genghisgawa Guilds and Banking, but maybe not Hammuragawa. Save Guilds as a tech we can bribe Hammuragawa with. For example we can bribe him into Hinduism instead of flip him using espioange.

Send 3 spies back to Liztown (I accidently had him leave early)
We might want another shot at espionage vs Liz especially if she techs astronomy for us.

spies don't need to be in Hammsville until T159 if we want to flip Hammuragawa out of theocracy or into hinduism after the vote on T165.

workers might want to chop forests if they can get back in a reasonable time. After that, build some farms so we can grow our population and recover from some whips we plan to do.

OB with Genghisgawa still a possibiltiy,
I would keep Settler16 up there so we can possibly liberate it to him for +1 relations and if he ever techs feudalism we can possibly get him into mercantilism

Research after engineering and espionage for shaka flip Maybe put espionage into Liz to find out what she is teching. Then tech what she isn't -- paper if she is going for astronomy, astronomy if she is going for paper.

If she techs paper and education then we could steal paper, education, philosophy and research liberalism for a cheaper astronomy.

Consider whipping a granary in FishTown after engineering is researched probably
Consider whipping a courthouse in Island?
Consider a market in the capital after we finish building useful military units

A unit whipped next turn in CowTown might be able to catch up to the stack if use the galleys to galley chain on T147, and drop off units in Hammsville on T148, depends on engineering timing.

Need to count the turns to Shaka's city, we might have a tile to spare, so upgrades might be possible before we leave our culture. However, I doubt the upgrade will be worth it, but it might be possible to upgrade a spear to a pike for example.

With a 3-turns-to-engineering plan I think our stack gets to Shaka's city in time for T166 win, but it is close.

mabraham · May 10, 2012

I think we will want to work in a couple of crossbows - Shaka has maces. With a bunch of catapults for collateral damage when we attack Bulawayo, I think we want to focus on keeping as many units alive for the attacks - we won't be able to keep full-strength maces if we don't send some crossbows (and likely not even if we do send crossbows). Delhi's archer could be upgraded if we want to spend cash rather than population.

mabraham · May 10, 2012

Ideally, we want to find some way of moving Shaka's stack out of Ngomo. He's got OB with Cyrus and Genghis, but nobody else. If we could get him to war with Hammu, then we can probably skirt Ngomo to the north and he might move on Hammu's northern city. Hammu's stack is over in Hatse territory, so we can forget about it helping. The bait city we settled west of Shaka doesn't seem to have worked, so maybe he is targetting someone else - like Hammu? Or nobody because his stack is parked in a city?

One way I can see of making that happen is as we did with Liz: flip Shaka to Hinduism T154 in GhostTown, DOW Shaka, capture GhostTown, and have the AP DOW the now-heathen Shaka. We're still not assured of our stack not meeting Shaka's in the field.

Another alternative might be to see if we can get Liz to peace in return for her taking peace with Hammu, flip Shaka to Hinduism, and try to bribe Hammu to war with Shaka that turn. We DOW also, take GhostTown immediately (so we can gift it back to Shaka at vote time) and try to sneak our stack past Shaka.

Cyrus switching religions is useful, but won't be fast enough to help.

Unfortunately we didn't think to use the missionary we had in Shaka's territory to spread in Bulawayo :-(

If we can't make something work, then we might have to resign ourselves to another 10 turns building an army that is sure to survive the trip to Bulawayo with enough strength left to capture it....

bcool · May 10, 2012

If we DoW shaka early he might send his stack off to kill the bait city since he wouldn't have OB with Hammu. If we time it well perhaps we could sneak pass his stack?

Then when his stack in in Cyrusgawa's lands we Get the holy war vote against him and trap his stack fighting Cyrusgawa?

Re: spreading to Bulawayo
The missionary situation was quite fluid as we learned we couldn't make it the north AI team and wanted backup for Moses plan, but we probably could have spread Bulawayo, but then we couldn't do the holy war trick now, so in the end it was the right call!

Anyways it won't be that bad as we can just have all 3 missionaries walk there with the stack.

mabraham · May 10, 2012

bcool said:
If we DoW shaka early he might send his stack off to kill the bait city since he wouldn't have OB with Hammu. If we time it well perhaps we could sneak pass his stack?

Then when his stack in in Cyrusgawa's lands we Get the holy war vote against him and trap his stack fighting Cyrusgawa?

The holy war vote would resolve on T156, so we'd have to be prepared to DOW T150ish to give his stack time to move towards the bait. So some EPs on Shaka and two spies in GhostTown for the Hindu flip and a couple of units there to capture it soon after the DOW. Around T154-5 our main stack has to move into Shaka culture to reach Bulawayo on time for a one-turn assault to gift the city to the Mali T164. So that could work, and doesn't really cost us anything.

Every Shaka city except Bulawayo has city walls. When did we last see Bulawayo (start of Tachy's set with the missionary, perhaps?) and does the prospect of walls scare us?

bcool said:
Re: spreading to Bulawayo
The missionary situation was quite fluid as we learned we couldn't make it the north AI team and wanted backup for Moses plan, but we probably could have spread Bulawayo, but then we couldn't do the holy war trick now, so in the end it was the right call!
Anyways it won't be that bad as we can just have all 3 missionaries walk there with the stack.

True, true.

SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

Friday,13 June,I Collapse

Deity

Friday,13 June,I Collapse

Deity

Lord Croissant

Deity

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Lord Croissant

Lord Croissant

Lord Croissant

Lord Croissant

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Deity

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Deity

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