SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika

[Manco Capac]

Thanks. Toku will also settle considering invisible resources, no? So we can't bank absolutely on anything.

Invisible resources for the AI are still invisible. He doesn't cheat as DanF proved in the S&T subforum. You are right if there is copper or horses, he might change its settling.

In regards to the PPP, sorry for the confusion. Lack of sleep was slowly killing me. I wanted to produce to keep the team on a productive way. Obviously, I missed certain posts. I should've done some testings, but time was lacking. Will comment later on time.

BTW, periple doesn't exist in english. periple[FR] = pilgrimage = trip = itinerary.
I meant once the city is settled, its function as fogbuster is obsolete, then exploratory function may restart again.

 

[WastinTime]

It it considered an exploit to look into the fog south of Toku's capital?
It's pretty obvious to me what's there, and I'm a novice fog-gazer.

 

[DanF5771]

Nice tests, Tachy. BTW you can also enquire about AI found values in debug mode using the ALT-key (only in test game of course...).

The site 1NE of Corn has a very high found value for Toku (>7000), unless there is something exceptionally good in the area NE of Kyoto, he is going to settle there.
And he will do so very soon as he is certainly building a Settler at the moment (Kyoto @size 3 for last 7 turns).

That would still leave the site 1E of eastern Gold open for us, but increase border tensions with Toku rather quickly.
If we were to rush our Settler over there and settle this site first, Toku would put his city 1 tile further east, but the found value would drop immediately to something 2000-3000 so he might choose a site to his east over that. Hmmm, should we try that? My gut feeling is, the area around NW Deer-Gold is under less pressure.

BTW, animals also don't like to move into tiles adjacent to cultural borders (except when attacking).

 

[WastinTime]

Hunting in 4 with slider micro.

I prefer fighting the lion in the forest. If we try to run NW, we might find another lion and have to fight in grass. In my turnset, there were 2 lions around me. One is dead and I removed the sign that showed where it first appeared, the other sign (lion t23) is still lurking. The lion you see is a 3rd one.

 

[Manco Capac]

Nice tests, Tachy. BTW you can also enquire about AI found values in debug mode using the ALT-key (only in test game of course...).

The site 1NE of Corn has a very high found value for Toku (>7000), unless there is something exceptionally good in the area NE of Kyoto, he is going to settle there.
And he will do so very soon as he is certainly building a Settler at the moment (Kyoto @size 3 for last 7 turns).

That would still leave the site 1E of eastern Gold open for us, but increase border tensions with Toku rather quickly.
If we were to rush our Settler over there and settle this site first, Toku would put his city 1 tile further east, but the found value would drop immediately to something 2000-3000 so he might choose a site to his east over that. Hmmm, should we try that? My gut feeling is, the area around NW Deer-Gold is under less pressure.

BTW, animals also don't like to move into tiles adjacent to cultural borders (except when attacking).

Oh yes. That debugger. That was a possibility, but all those scribbles.
Yes, taking the city location will slow down Mr. real Toku, but the risk is real as mabraham pointed it out. The only way to ensure a good and efficient escort of the settler is to fight in defensive the lion, then we open up the fastest passage.

Indeed, the animals dislike the cultural border, they even go away by the magical power of human literature and religion (culture). In other words, settling a city when an animal is next to the city is no danger.

 

[Manco Capac]

It it considered an exploit to look into the fog south of Toku's capital?
It's pretty obvious to me what's there, and I'm a novice fog-gazer.

Looking the fringes of tiles is not considered an exploit and is completely impossible to put polices on that aspect of the game.

 

[Manco Capac]

Hunting in 4 with slider micro.

Binary research! Yes, I forgot with two cities, we are at the point of binary research, trying to save the smallest rounded down beaker lost.
When getting a even number of beakers, getting 50% is another checkpoint of no loss.
Useful if one wants to keep all the beakers while getting the needed tech a tad faster.
Of course, 50% slider before libraries where 0% and 100% are best.

Will include that aspect in tech section.
Thx for pointing that out, WT.

 

[WastinTime]

Looking the fringes of tiles is not considered an exploit and is completely impossible to put polices on that aspect of the game.

Right, but what looking a couple tiles deeper into the fog with the cursor?

 

[Manco Capac]

Right, but what looking a couple tiles deeper into the fog with the cursor?

Woah! The "Go to" trick. That is cheating then. Prior to SGOTM14, I've seen some people mapping out the entire initial region in terms of terrains.

How the hell am I the only one who never got the way how to use it?

 

[WastinTime]

I prefer wheel after hunting (instead of bronze). I don't want the worker to linger around city2 waiting for bronze and I don't really care if he chops a worker. He should move to get the 2nd deer and road for city 3. (unless we're still thinking of leaving the deer/cows site open).

 

[DanF5771]

I don't want the worker to linger around city2 waiting for bronze and I don't really care if he chops a worker.

That's why I was thinking it might be good for him to finish the FP-farm in Delhi, then move to improve Gold so that it is ready to be worked by Bombay after it has grown to size 2 while working unimproved Deer. After mining Gold, Eiffel moves to improve Deer and is ready to chop later.
Delhi can grow quicker that way, no? (still can't test )

 

[Manco Capac]

Hmm...really annoying. Over 10 attempts; I can't time BW with the worker ending his minework.
Anyways, it shouldn't work in the real game; both Mansa and Joao in the test have BW, meaning a boost of 10%. While in the real game, the tokus are far from getting the said tech.

In the test game, I almost succeeded to get a perfect timing, but I lacked one gold in my bank (-3 versus two in my bank.).

 

[Manco Capac]

Okay. I attempted a new approach towards showing the playthrough of a turnset. Glad I found the solution how to tone down the brightness via gamma factor.

I upload a video of 20 MB (4 min) on how I see my turnset. For now, this one is screwed when it comes to the second city planning.

This method may appeal those who don't want to peruse deeply long posts.

Beware: Link killed.
Title is random to protect it; the video is going to be deleted in short time being on another server.

A thx to AgedOne who goaded me in the past in regards to vids use.

 

[WastinTime]

That's why I was thinking it might be good for him to finish the FP-farm in Delhi, then move to improve Gold so that it is ready to be worked by Bombay after it has grown to size 2 while working unimproved Deer. After mining Gold, Eiffel moves to improve Deer and is ready to chop later.
Delhi can grow quicker that way, no? (still can't test )

FP farm only adds one food. It is not better at settler production than working a mine.
It does give one commerce, but working the gold is much more important.

 

[mabraham]

Okay. I attempted a new approach towards showing the playthrough of a turnset. Glad I found the solution how to tone down the brightness via gamma factor.

I upload a video of 20 MB (4 min) on how I see my turnset. For now, this one is screwed when it comes to the second city planning.

This method may appeal those who don't want to peruse deeply long posts.

Beware: Very poor quality.
Title is random to protect it; the video is going to be deleted in short time being on another server.

A thx to AgedOne who goaded me in the past in regards to vids use.

Thanks. I would suggest some changes to the capital's tile micro, per post 487. Growth to size 3 and 4 to work improved tiles can occur a turn earlier than in your video, by judicious use of three turns (total) on the flood plain.

 

[Kaitzilla]

Okay. I attempted a new approach towards showing the playthrough of a turnset. Glad I found the solution how to tone down the brightness via gamma factor.

I upload a video of 20 MB (4 min) on how I see my turnset. For now, this one is screwed when it comes to the second city planning.

This method may appeal those who don't want to peruse deeply long posts.

Beware: Very poor quality.
Title is random to protect it; the video is going to be deleted in short time being on another server.

A thx to AgedOne who goaded me in the past in regards to vids use.

Oh cool! A video test playthrough It looked pretty solid and I enjoyed the game speaking French too.

 

[Manco Capac]

^
Yeah, I can't listen to captain Spock. English or not, all the quotes are always french.

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@mabraham
Looks like I missed a bunch of posts. Very interesting thought about hammer loss due to rounding off of SH overflow. I guessed you meant the overflow was an odd number, then it divided by two, losing on the way one .

Okay, I got the point of working a little more the gold tile to get BW online in time, at the expense of few hammers (from deers while training worker).
I guess the sacrifice of :3 hammers: to 8 :commerces: is a decent tradeoff.

I know you wished more testings, but that second city location is indeed very strong and there is no infinite possibilities to improve a test game in 10 turns. I may do testing in 24 hours (in fact 19 hours), but is there a hurry because of the wasted day (the first day I was assigned to the turn-set).

When polished, I will emit another video, finalizing my turn-set. I think that way, most people can feel the turn-set than a micro PPP.

 

[Kaitzilla]

I am late to this party yes. I will modify my first post on the first page right now into a team-thread index for reference purposes since our last team game did not have one. It will be rough but hopefully a resource in the future.
If anyone feels they've made an important discovery, or performed a nice chunk of work that should be in my index for future easier reference, or spot a mistake shoot me a private mail and i'll add/fix things.

All 9 civs starting with Buddism and maybe a few castles on turn 0. Us, stuck in Hinduism the entire game no matter what. And, a dash of all our rivals being Tokugawa.

Looking at a leaderhead info spreadsheet, it seems Tokugawa has some of the following characteristics:



Peaceweight - 1
He will attack high peaceweights such as Ghandi - 10 which we are playing . Peaceweights don't affect AI-Human interactions.
He will be friendly with other warmongers and attack peace loving AI civs.

Closed Borders until pleased --> +5 diplo rating minimum
Shared religion will eventually give +3 modifier
Heathen will eventually give -3 modifier
Love Mercantilism, which requires Banking
Slightly less than average chance of building wonders.
Average Border sharing penalities.


The map appears to be another gem. What could this one be? I believe Tachy put forth a modified ring or doughnut map in post #367.
I really do hate Tokugawa. He messed up GOTM 62 for me if I am remembering correctly. I'll see if I can't find an all Tokugawa game that someone has played already somewhere.

 

[Manco Capac]

Peaceweight - 1
He will attack high peaceweights such as Ghandi - 10 which we are playing.
He will be friendly with other warmongers I think.

Closed Borders until pleased --> +5 diplo rating minimum
Shared religion will eventually give +3 modifier
Heathen will eventually give -3 modifier

The hidden modifiers of all Tokus towards us amount to -2 (without the unlikely underdog bonus) as mentioned earlier (-1 Toku's base attitude, -1 Emperor level), they are fixed and not subject to any randomness.

The hidden modifiers of one Toku towards another Toku are a bit random due to iPeaceWeightRand=3 for all leaders. So the actual peace weights of our Tokus are in the range 1(base) +0...2 = 1...3.

I also think, even if we are Gandhi, as a human player, we do not have peaceweight as a factor in player-AI diplo.

 

[WastinTime]

I'm not sure the video thing is working for me, but I'll give it another try.
It feels like someone is reading the PPP to me...slowly...and I have to listen to all the irrelevant parts. For example, if I'd like to review all the worker actions, I have to sit thru all the warrior movements, and technology screens, tile micro, etc.

Maybe post a PPP along with it?