mabraham
Deity
Sounds great.
SGOTM 15 - Kakumeika
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Sounds great.
T 42
Amundson move 1S1E.
T43
Toku archer along ridgeline in north.
Amundson moves back to gold.
Bear out of site, lion 2S.
DeSoto approaching border.
Switch to worker build.
Hammaragawa founded his second city at end of last turn.
T44
Amundson fortified on gold
T45
DeSoto moves to Marble.
A new lion appears.
T46
Riverside Copper in BFC.
Both Toku's have copper.
Amundson still on gold, fortified two turns.
Bear lost in shuffle when we moved SE; suspect in forest in southern part of the hot zone. Two lions are on the prowl.
Toku archer heading into the hot zone.
Amundson move 1S1E.
T43
Toku archer along ridgeline in north.
Amundson moves back to gold.
Bear out of site, lion 2S.
DeSoto approaching border.
Switch to worker build.
Hammaragawa founded his second city at end of last turn.
Spoiler :
T44
Amundson fortified on gold
T45
DeSoto moves to Marble.
A new lion appears.
T46
Riverside Copper in BFC.
Both Toku's have copper.
Amundson still on gold, fortified two turns.
Bear lost in shuffle when we moved SE; suspect in forest in southern part of the hot zone. Two lions are on the prowl.
Toku archer heading into the hot zone.
Spoiler :
bcool
Deity
Can someone point me to the micro necessary for the T62 Oracle in sheep/gold/corn city? I wanted to make another attempt at the test game, but I fear my attempts to get the oracle by T62 have failed.
I want to compare a test game following a modified plan B to mabraham's plan E solution, and I want to build the pyramids in DeerGold to help accelerate the tech rate a little bit. Mabraham latest save game proving the T62 oracle in the sheep/gold/corn city has DeerGold building a barracks.
Thanks
I want to compare a test game following a modified plan B to mabraham's plan E solution, and I want to build the pyramids in DeerGold to help accelerate the tech rate a little bit. Mabraham latest save game proving the T62 oracle in the sheep/gold/corn city has DeerGold building a barracks.
Thanks
mabraham
Deity
Four chops out of DeerGold, the last one finishes the third worker. I chop the GFH second using the first worker built. Migrate directly SE as chopping completes. I don't think there is room to squeeze in some early roads to speed the later workers. Edit Duh, TW isn't done yet anyway.
IIRC first worker out of Delhi can chop the second from the SE forest. Send a worker to the deer the turn before TW finshes. Start that road, and with some other worker(s) the road SW of deer. Incoming workers from the NW can often move to the road SW of deer and then to deer and put a turn on the camp for efficiency before moving off to other things next turn. Road SE of Delhi is not needed. Two workers road the forest NE of marble the turn before the border pop, then do the marble. One worker chops the forest NW of deer after the border pop, but in time to accelerate the settler build (this can be started before the border pop). There is time for the camp to be finished before DeerCows settler plants.
Meanwhile the SheepGold city settles T52 building Oracle and working sheep. Two workers build roads to SheepGold for trade route on Ghill and river Pforest (not gold), then gold mine (finishes just before the time it grows to size 2). When the city just grows to size 2 from working sheep, marble has just come online and there is two excess food. Work a Pforest and the gold mine. As the pre-DeerCows chop and the gold mine finish, loop the workers around so that most of them end by chopping the forest that has a road under it (means they can then move elsewhere with maximum speed). One Oracle chop can occur T60. On T61 DeerCows settles, toggle the tile to SheepGold, chop it, then chop the roaded forest. Should end with zero food and exact hammers, working gold and river plains.
mabraham
Deity
At first I thought you could just switch off the barracks onto Pyramids, upgrade the central tile to plains hills and turn it back when you've caught up, but in that game I build TGW in DeerGold until T58 when I assumed an AI would have built it, and that will complicate the comparison a lot.
Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
bcool
Deity
copper in Delhi's BFC supports mabraham's plan to build the oracle in Delhi and use a great engineer for machinery.
Improving the copper will likely slow the Oracle by 2 turns? in sheep/gold/corn unless we do it after the chops of course.
Improving the copper will likely slow the Oracle by 2 turns? in sheep/gold/corn unless we do it after the chops of course.
I ran a DeerGold pyramid test where I built the Oracle in Delhi. I did not use the cows (so I settled Deer/SheepGold) and I pretended there was a fish down south by the marble. Just the 5 cities. I only had 3 workers and they sat around with nothing to do the last 10 turns. There were some roads needed and still forests everywhere, but 6 workers will definitely be bored by turn 100.
I got Machinery with normal research and bulbed optics T103 and Theo on T105
Empire is doing 148 bpt at 0 gold.
save:
I got Machinery with normal research and bulbed optics T103 and Theo on T105
Empire is doing 148 bpt at 0 gold.
save:
mabraham
Deity
WastinTime reported a T62 Oracle in Delhi without copper, so maybe there's a turn to gain there - but with marble only available T59 at the earliest, there's not much wiggle room to improve.
Copper also means we can go kill Gawas if we want. I'm unconvinced that addresses our VC well. Evidence that Toku might DOW us around T90 might suggest preparing for that war, if someone's interested in making such a test game.
I expect the four turns spent improving the deer camp can go on the copper mine instead, pending checking the timing.
mabraham
Deity
Saved game please?
correct, you won't be able to improve on that unless you want to chop. I couldn't chop anything because I only used 3 workers.
bcool
Deity
This is good except why is Theo so late? If we can improve the Theo bulb time this is definitely an option to explore further.
game is now attached in original post
bcool
Deity
So this is a decision point, we need to decide what path to go.
After this we need to either start chopping forests for workers in Deer Gold or do something along the lines of WastinTime's game.
WastinTime looks like he did open borders and get foreign trade routes, and I would like to see the bulb time for theology improved.
I've run out of time tonight, I think we need to do some more extensive testing with a deer/gold/sheep site and also explore how copper changes either a plan E or plan B strategy.
Maybe we can all do some tests so shulec can finish the rest of his turnset soon. I'll do my best to do useful testing tomorrow afternoon (~20 hours from now) and maybe we can have a good discussion tomorrow evening.
After this we need to either start chopping forests for workers in Deer Gold or do something along the lines of WastinTime's game.
WastinTime looks like he did open borders and get foreign trade routes, and I would like to see the bulb time for theology improved.
I've run out of time tonight, I think we need to do some more extensive testing with a deer/gold/sheep site and also explore how copper changes either a plan E or plan B strategy.
Maybe we can all do some tests so shulec can finish the rest of his turnset soon. I'll do my best to do useful testing tomorrow afternoon (~20 hours from now) and maybe we can have a good discussion tomorrow evening.
I didn't think I could bulb Theo until after I bulbed optics because Theo bulb needs Meditation and that would open up Philo bulb instead of Optics. Is that right? It seems like you guys are bulbing Optics last, what am I missing?
Anyway....
I think what I want to do next is bulb Machinery with GSci, which will allow earlier bulb of Theo and then just research Optics with beakers.
True, I got +1/city more for that, but to cancel that out, I did not build Kashi for the +1/city w/hindu.
My next test I'll do kashi and no OB. I will also use the deer/cow site.
I also did not trade for any tech even though it was available.
mabraham
Deity
Ouch. You're right. This is why the fast-Astro-bulbing games avoid Meditation. And why we need completed test games rather than theoretical constructs!
Yeah. Not being able to bulb Optics before getting Philo changes quite a lot really.
DanF5771
Emperor
- Joined
- Feb 21, 2008
- Messages
- 1,194
Nice first halftime, shulec.
But you missed the tile micro change to 3GMines (noFP) for the TGW-turn, now we only have 24
(planned 30) invested and 3
in the box ...
... which might turn out to be quite good, now that we found Copper as the 6th great tile in Delhi's BFC so we should try to grow to 6 soon.
Hammu settling north and Osaka still at 0 culture, nice.
With 2 turns fortification bonus Amundsen's odds will be 90.9% vs the Lion.
BFC Copper - great! Might enable the suggested double-liberation (in-between barb conquest) of a city to Hammu for permanent +3 which together with +4 for fair trade will get us to pleased for open borders.
Edit: Since we have Hunting we need to remember that after getting a Mine on Copper (instant hook up via river after Marble connection) building cheap Warriors for MP is out.
Glad we didn't settle Delhi T0 1E of FP.
But you missed the tile micro change to 3GMines (noFP) for the TGW-turn, now we only have 24
(planned 30) invested and 3 in the box ...... which might turn out to be quite good, now that we found Copper as the 6th great tile in Delhi's BFC so we should try to grow to 6 soon.
Hammu settling north and Osaka still at 0 culture, nice.
With 2 turns fortification bonus Amundsen's odds will be 90.9% vs the Lion.
BFC Copper - great! Might enable the suggested double-liberation (in-between barb conquest) of a city to Hammu for permanent +3 which together with +4 for fair trade will get us to pleased for open borders.
Edit: Since we have Hunting we need to remember that after getting a Mine on Copper (instant hook up via river after Marble connection) building cheap Warriors for MP is out.
Glad we didn't settle Delhi T0 1E of FP.
Nice first halftime, shulec.
But you missed the tile micro change to 3GMines (noFP) for the TGW-turn, now we only have 24
I am sorry I made that mistake. As I read your post, I didn't even remember that I was supposed to do that. I ran through my tests so many times and had it down pat, but 10-12 days between testing and playing was too much for me. At this point, I would prefer to end my turnset and pass it on to the next player.
AP built T103, Optics T108
So in this game, I only bulbed Theo. (I also bulbed CoL late with the last prophet, but that didn't matter much) I should have done Meditation before Alphabet, so Theo was delayed ~8 turns. I didn't try to rush the AP, so I could have probably built it ~T90.
So in this game, I only bulbed Theo. (I also bulbed CoL late with the last prophet, but that didn't matter much) I should have done Meditation before Alphabet, so Theo was delayed ~8 turns. I didn't try to rush the AP, so I could have probably built it ~T90.
