SGOTM 16 - Kakumeika

Hah! That wiley Sitting Bull didn't even gather a stack to DoW us. How impertinant.

I agree that no marble for the near future. The mapmaker really cooked the books on that resource.

That DoW was probably going to bite us sooner or later with activities on the other continent.


If perhaps a holy war against Sitting Bull possible? If he has no Confu cities and we spread Confu to Qin and Hammy, then we can have a nice holy war against Sitting Bull


According to the info sheet, Sitting Bull is the longest to talk peace after a DoW, so it will be a long time before he is willing to talk peace without some positive war success.


Now that we have killed Brennus oursleves, we can cross off another goal :D

Maybe give our doomed city to Saladin? Hmm
 
No Holy war option for Sitting Bull, I spread confu to his Moundville up north at the beginning of the turnset.

Kaitzilla, what do you think of bribing Hammy and Qin into war with Sitting Bull?
It is kill their tech rate probably. I doubt they are going to tech anything for us (after I get Guilds from them). But if they send their stacks over then Hammy will be easier to kill probably.

We can also get them all into a holy war with Saladin, so they should kill each other off nicely Hopefully. distract them and then come and kill them.

I think that is the best way forward.
 
bcool said:
No Holy war option for Sitting Bull, I spread confu to his Moundville up north at the beginning of the turnset.

Kaitzilla, what do you think of bribing Hammy and Qin into war with Sitting Bull?
It is kill their tech rate probably. I doubt they are going to tech anything for us (after I get Guilds from them). But if they send their stacks over then Hammy will be easier to kill probably.

We can also get them all into a holy war with Saladin, so they should kill each other off nicely Hopefully. distract them and then come and kill them.

I think that is the best way forward.
Click to expand...


I don't really want to feed more techs to Hammy and Qin to war on Sitting Bull.

I'm not entirely sure we can trade for Guilds with Qin since we couldn't trade for Drama, but Qin hopefully still hasn't met Ramesses and I will trust Tachywaxon's tool to make accurate prediction for us.

Both will probably tech Banking for us too.
After playing a zillion games AI's tend to tech Banking right after Guilds.


Since Sitting Bull cold DoW'd us with no stack, there might be a few turns to attack his galleys and get him to talk peace before the hammer shows up.

Is giving the city to Saladin the turn before it gets taken an option?

Everyone getting into a Holy War against Saladin is a perfect idea :D
That gets us immediate open border with Sitting Bull again once he cools off and signs peace with us.

Do Qin and Hammy both have a Confu city now too?

Now that Brennus is dead, we should probably send 2 chariots into Egypt. One to spy on Thebes and the other to locate Ramesses' stack of doom for us.

Is trading for Divine right possible? If not, which doesn't want to trade us for "Have our reasons" and which doesn't because "We don't feel like trading that now"

We need to sell our map more aggressively if we are consider trading Paper away. Maybe 100g instead of holding out for 200g.
 
Are we sure Sitting Bull will backstab (dagger) us? Our power might be enough to deter him. Many times I've seen an AI SoD near my borders and was concerned that it would attack, but often it did not.

If we are sure that Sitting Bull will attack us, will bribing other AIs to DoW him first cause him to delay his DoW versus us?


EDIT: Oops, upon reading the log, I see that Sitting Bull has already attacked us. I assume it was a dagger attack without warning.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
I already started trading our map more aggressively. Sold it to Ram for 120 gold and 80 gold to Hammy.

trading for Divine Right isn't possible. There was a 1 turn window to trade it from Ramesses, but he started a wonder the next turn.

2 chariots into Egypt check.

confu spread to Hammy successfully. 2 confu missionaries on their way to Qin in next few turns.

I expect that I can flip Hammy and Qin to Confu soon. I plan to try to flip Hammy this turn, if I fail I leave the back up spy to try. If I succeed I send the back up spy on to Qin to be the backup.

So holy war on Saladin will be possible.

I will hunt galleys with the galleon but I don't think it will be in time.

I doubt upgrading the archer in Marble city is worth it. I will check if I can give away the Marble city to Salain.
Edit: I can liberate the Marble City to Saladin.

We want to trade astronomy I think to Qin and Hammy for guilds and the war. I want them sending their stacks across the continent at Sitting Bull. Might as well. Yes Astronomy and Paper not great but I rather do that then Nationalism. We want the Taj for ourselves.

I think we can probably get banking from one them. I agree they all go for banking after guilds usually.
 
If we give marble city to Saladin, then that should become a safe place to heal up our galleon after galley attacks. I'm pretty sure Sitting Bull doesn't have open borders with Saladin. Maybe if Saladin gets enough culture pressure, he can steal that marble and he'd have 2 sources of marble and trade one to us.

Er, nevermind holy war against him soon :lol:

Still, base to hide in from Sitting Bull for a little while.


As for Taj Majal, I still favor Horse City. It can do 19:hammers: per turn at Size 7 and should get the wonder done in 21 or 22 turns. We will likely start our golden age with our next great person first anyway once we have taken Thebes.
 
Sitting Bull's "SoD" is that galley. That's good and bad news. Bad news is that he DOWed us. Good news is that he might not have a real SoD too close, though that's doubtful since he captured both Bantu and Polynesian from the barbs. Still, we might be able to keep this city and it's worth a shot.

Our galleon should defintely go 4NE-1E and then kill it next turn. That will knock his willingness to talk down to 12 turns (T194, assuming the counter started T182). Then if we can kill another galley or maybe have some luck defending a single unit or two (I would immediately upgrade the archer to lbm), we might get to where we can actually talk and DoP. It's worth a shot.
Code: 
When
SB   
Talks  Battles   
-----  -------
T194   attack 1X
T191   attack 1X, defend 1X
T191   attack 2X
T190   attack 1X, defend 2x

T189   attack 1x, defend 3X
T189   attack 1x, defend 4X

Our ConfuMiss could spread to Saladin (I'd recommend Kufah) and on T188 have the EntireWorldExceptQin DoW Sitting Duck. With Saladin at war with SB, he might send units there instead of toward us, if we're lucky and still have Chartres (Bantu-3S).

===

What happened to our Confu Miss at Chartres? As soon as we get Music, we should build culture at max speed till our borders expand, but keep the theatre in the queue after the wealth, for the extra two hammers on that turn (mini-bug).

===

xpost multi-X
 
I never sent a confu missionary to Chartes (the Marble City) I missed that detail. Never was in the PPP sorry.

Sitting Bull was convert to Confu with that missionary instead per PPP. The intention was to do a holy war vs Saladin. I had to use the confu missionary because I was building several in the other cities so I used it on Sitting Bull.

So no holy war on Sitting bull unless we capture his Moundville in the way north. Not going to happen by T188
 
bcool said:
trading for Divine Right isn't possible. There was a 1 turn window to trade it from Ramesses, but he started a wonder the next turn.
Click to expand...
Missing Divine Right is no huge deal, but it's a loss. We MUSTN'T overlook such opportunities in the future. We're in a tech race. Tech tech tech. Teching is the first 4589 priorities on our list.
 
In Chartres, I'd work the hammer rather than the coast straight through and mine the gold before roading, hopefully the worker can finish it before being threatened, though doubtful. We'll build the theaetre by hand faster than by whipping.
 
I was also wondering whether we could defend our Marble city and believe we should give it a try via LowtherCastle's recent suggestion.

Otherwise, giving the city to Saladin and capturing it later sounds like a safe alternative, but that gets us Marble too late.

Sun Tzu Wu
 
I'm not necessarily in favor of a Holy War against Saladin now that we can get SharedWar plusmods with Qin (and Hammy?) against Sitting Bull. We don't really want someone else capturing Mecca and they all could easily do it, especiallly Hammy if he has a bunch of knights.
 
trading for Divine Right was something that I consciously passed on. I didn't have anything that I wanted to give Ramesses... Astronomy? Not fun if we are planning a navel war soon.
Nationalism, not fun to have a drafting enemy or someone who builds the Taj soon.
Paper was worth enough.

there was no good way to trade for it.
 
Okay, I will try to keep Chartes (the Marble City) giving it away to Saladin only if it appears completely lost.

will mine the gold

I will bribe Qin and Hammy into a war with Sitting Bull using Astronomy and Paper if necessary

If possible I will pick up Guilds in the same trade.

Any objections for me to play soon?

Horse City will build the Taj Mahal starting now.
 
Don't waste $ on the lb upgrade. Let's wait on that.

Let's not make the same mistake with the Music trade that we did on Philo and DR. Get it the first turn it's available.

Astron + ?paper? to Qin for guilds+war+gold might work. Are we sure we want to make SB an enemy? It's probably ok, but we could turn that relationship around too if we wanted. Can we instead use the AP to stop the war with SB? I don't think he'd re-dow.
 
If we use the AP to stop the war with Sitting Bull (assuming we can hold on for 6 turns then we would have a forced peace with ALL confu Members (which means no war with Ramesses).

I'll upgrade to a longbow only if I see a stack coming that I have a chance against. Is that okay?

Personally, I think the best coarse is to just give up the marble city.
 
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