SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

[neilmeister]

Another thing sticks out IMO.

Only 1 AI has MC, none have Machinery. Engineering by trade is a looooong way away. The extra road movement and the Treb reinforcements will make this war go a lot smoother.

I vote for Engineering next.


edit: and I know you have only hit end turn twice, so please don't take my comments as a criticism of your set. I'm just tense

 

[Revent]

Ah, I see. If the hammer multiplier ALSO counts towards the whip, that makes a lot more sense! So 1pop=45 hammers.

When shall we revolt?
Paper next seems to make a lot of sense rather than Eng or idk. Up for debate!
Also, I've dotmapped Brennus's land.

 

[neilmeister]

Ah, I see. If the hammer multiplier ALSO counts towards the whip, that makes a lot more sense! So 1pop=45 hammers.

Thats only for buildings in cities with buddhism & a forge. For units, it is 37.

When shall we revolt?
Paper next seems to make a lot of sense rather than Eng or idk. Up for debate!
Also, I've dotmapped Brennus's land.

Revolt now IMO. 1 turn wasted of Beauro costs 25 raw commerce and a few hammers.

 

[Revent]

You're right about Eng Neil
It will make this war a lot smoother. It also is a preq for some techs we eventually want. BUT, do we need to waste 5 turns on it now (slowing our game by 5 as a result) when we could probably research it a bit faster after the war or even trade for it? I'm for either side and I think I'll wait for more input before we choose the tech.

Also, after the war, aren't we going to give some techs to the other AI for them to catch up?

 

[Revent]

Anyway, I do have an SG I promised to plan on, so I'll make a quick plan for that, and then jump back to this whilst waiting for others to input

 

[Benginal]

BUT, do we need to waste 5 turns on it now (slowing our game by 5 as a result) when we could probably research it a bit faster after the war or even trade for it?

How will researching engineering next slow the game by 5 turns as a result? It will speed up the war and allow for trebs (I think they will have time to reach the front, especially if we are planning on taking out the continent). Also, since we academied the great scientist, there's no rush to get to Education.

I vote, as I've been voting, for Engineering next.

 

[Revent]

Fair enough. I was on the fence anyway.

It will indeed speed up the war However, then we could delay the war by a turn or 3 to get a couple of trebs out. Plus, Eng will mean our units travel faster as well!

However, I'd like to wait for at least one more opinion before I continue.

 

[neilmeister]

OK, good point.

If we sell MC to everyone for a pittance, then we can trade Machinery for all those juicy techs when they are willing to trade. (Music, Drama, Feudalism, Theology)
Then the AI can research Engineering & Guilds for us while we do PP.

If we continue at our current tech pace through Paper->Education, we will finish it in 14 turns. This will time well with the end of whipping units, so we can whip out Uni's before we change to Caste. If we get a GS in 10 turns, save it for PP or SM.

I still like Engineering next though.

If we did Engineering->Paper->Education, we could bulb Edu using the GS, and get it about the same time... and it means we can keep warring until we take the whole continent.

edit: don't delay the war though, we have a lot of cities to take, so the sooner we start the better. Keep whipping Cats/Maces in every city every 2 turns (I know I'm a broken record on this, but it is essential)

 

[neilmeister]

Either way though, still sell MC to everyone except Brennus.

We do want to trade them Machinery for their good techs.

 

[Benginal]

whip whip whip whip whip whip whip.

And I still like eng next.

 

[Revent]

I don't think we will be ready by 5 turns to be honest. HOWEVER, if we do go Eng first, we can time our whips so that we get max overflow when we whip into the Trebs so that as soon as Eng is done, within the next two turns, we churn out 6-7 trebs probably.
Whipping into trebs with max OF means that we can get 2 units out in 3 turns or something which I think is better. Plus, there is no way Brennus will be getting Feud within that time frame.

 

[SteelHorse]

Either way though, still sell MC to everyone except Brennus.

We do want to trade them Machinery for their good techs.

I am good with Eng. Not sure on selling to Rams. Since he is after Brens, I am happy to keep him backward.

 

[SteelHorse]

Other thoughts - Needs road also. To prod where units are building. And to Wheat. I would work the cottage tile instead of the mine in commerce.

 

[neilmeister]

We won't be ready to war for another 8 turns, at the earliest. but that is no reason to wait for Trebs.

FORGET OVERFLOW!!!!!!!!! Whip every city every 2 turns, regardless. Switch to trebs when you can.

And please, please build some roads to Production and from Barb City to Wheat.

Are we doing a galleon backstab into Bibracte? I haven't seen any evidence yet of horrible stacks, so I am willing to back this plan. We need 3 galleons (all from the island) and the galley to drop off 11 troops. Take at most 2 cats (for suiciding) and 9 troops.

 

[SteelHorse]

We won't be ready to war for another 8 turns, at the earliest. but that is no reason to wait for Trebs.

FORGET OVERFLOW!!!!!!!!! Whip every city every 2 turns, regardless. Switch to trebs when you can.

And please, please build some roads to Production and from Barb City to Wheat.

Are we doing a galleon backstab into Bibracte? I haven't seen any evidence yet of horrible stacks, so I am willing to back this plan. We need 3 galleons (all from the island) and the galley to drop off 11 troops. Take at most 2 cats (for suiciding) and 9 troops.

Agreed. Cats and maces are enough to start. Trebs when they are available but don't wait.

 

[Revent]

Okay sure, so do I still build a couple of Cats? I'm thinking 3-4 really. There's no stacks so even Cats to be honest are wastes of hammers except for the big cities. I have not seen any stack anywhere yet so he is most likely in Thebes! Honestly, I'm thinking of a 2:1 ratio for Melee: Cats. His units are sooo unfocused cats just don't seem worth it. And neither does Eng! We could probably kill off 10 of his cities within 5 turns you know if we did some more naval units since his units are all scattered.

Okay, Eng it is!

Plan:
Switch to Bur and Her Rule now.
Workers will mostly be building roads now and chopping if necessary and ignoring almost all other improvements
Research Engineering next
Whip every city every 2 turns except for Commerce
Build 3 galleons in the island cities. We CAN build another Galleon to be honest and if we want, we could use one of the galleons to take out Camudoloum straight away? Since these two cities won't be contributing units to the war, the best they can do is build us some ships.

Anything I'm missing?

 

[neilmeister]

Cats aren't a waste, as they will be bombarding while our stack heals. If our stack is uninjured, then 1-2 suiciders should improve the odds for our Maces so we can maybe attack without bombarding.

Whip Commerce as well, just not below pop 8.

After galleons, island cities should switch back to basic infra.

 

[SteelHorse]

We have not explored the west, where his stack is likely to be. Last seen he was at war against Rams. If he has a stack it will be there. We need cats to knock down defenses. Why wont the two cities be contributing units. Why not whip some mace? I don't see the point in more Galleons.

 

[neilmeister]

We have not explored the west, where his stack is likely to be. Last seen he was at war against Rams. If he has a stack it will be there. We need cats to knock down defenses. Why wont the two cities be contributing units. Why not whip some mace? I don't see the point in more Galleons.

Yes, no additional galleons beyond what we need to take Bibracte, they are a waste. We don't want to spread ourselves too thin.

I'm OK with the island whipping some more units after galleons, I would prefer infra, but units are OK.

 

[Revent]

Also, yeah I REALLY think a naval attack would be SO much better.

2-3 galleons down the east coast, 3-4 down the bay of Benginal, 1 down to Rams land and we would have completely killed Brennus and saved 5 turns not researching Eng and getting Paper 5 turns faster and thus getting Lib faster.

You might say that those hammers invested into galleons could have built us MoM or lots of extra maces. Re MoM, those hammers would need to come from a single city which is not the case here. Re maces, most of our galleons are coming from the island cities which won't be contributing to the war anyway so getting some contribution out of them isn't bad. PLUS, we will use those galleons later anyway!


Looking at the overall position right now as it is, using galleons approach= take lots of cities at once within 5 turns. Number of turns it will take Brennus's stack in Thebes to reach us is longer than 5. Once his stack leaves thebes, we will use a galleon to take 3 units to take Thebes and we kill his last city and voila, we kill him without ever seeing his stack.

Honestly speaking, right now, the map is screaming naval to me.