Another possibility is to save the Artist for Creative Constructions (foreign spread). That being said, I am much in favor of a Golden Age soon for a massive civics swap and some mass GPP accumulation. I know we have a few cities with only engineer points. We should get one of them running an engineer right away. When we build a factory we can add some more.
SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Trystero
Deity
We have been running an engineer in Production for a while. Are we planning on switching out of Slavery to CS and Pacifism anytime soon?
We need to stay in Beaurocracy if we want to trade monopoly techs, unless we can build up some shared war bonuses and go to Free Religion.
I favour a super revolt, where we change to Representation, Free Market, Caste System, Free Speech & either Free Religion or Pacifism, while in a golden age obviously.
We could start the golden age about 5 or so turns from completing Consitution. Switch to FM & FS at the start, and Representation & Caste & Pacifism near the end, allows last minute whipping.
It won't be too far away, we should get Constitution in about 15 turns or so. We need to stay in Beauro until we get Nationalism from Hammy, hopefully in about 10 turns (when we DoW Brennus and bribe Hammy in to get another +1)
Only problem with that is that we wont be able to whip infra using sushi for new cities, but our core cities will take off!
edit: we can bribe Qin into joining the war with Ramesses, might be good idea to build up extra bonuses.
I favour a super revolt, where we change to Representation, Free Market, Caste System, Free Speech & either Free Religion or Pacifism, while in a golden age obviously.
We could start the golden age about 5 or so turns from completing Consitution. Switch to FM & FS at the start, and Representation & Caste & Pacifism near the end, allows last minute whipping.
It won't be too far away, we should get Constitution in about 15 turns or so. We need to stay in Beauro until we get Nationalism from Hammy, hopefully in about 10 turns (when we DoW Brennus and bribe Hammy in to get another +1)
Only problem with that is that we wont be able to whip infra using sushi for new cities, but our core cities will take off!
edit: we can bribe Qin into joining the war with Ramesses, might be good idea to build up extra bonuses.
I think the 4 civics:
FM, FS, Caste, Representation are a given.
I have been thinking more about the religious civic, while Pacifism seems compelling, Free Religion could actually benefit us a great deal more.
In Free Religion, we lose a -2 modifier with Qin, and a -3 modifier with Hammy.
Switching out of Beauro will lose us the current +4 with Qin.
We actually gain with Hammy right now, as his shared civic bonus is currently +2. So we would then move to +8.
We have an extra +1 from Open Borders coming up (edit: t194 or 195, so 10 or 11 turns from now).
So, that means we only need an extra +1 to maintain both at friendly, so they trade monopoly techs. We can get this by agreeing to a request, by gifting more techs, or by sharing a war.
I cannot emphasise how important it is to keep them both at Friendly. It is much more important than extra great people IMO.
We want to trade like tech whores, all the way to FT1.
Free Religion also gives +10% research, and +1 happy face per religion. We will have at least 3 religions, hopefully 5 in the biggest cities. This will help enourmously with sushi populations.
FM, FS, Caste, Representation are a given.
I have been thinking more about the religious civic, while Pacifism seems compelling, Free Religion could actually benefit us a great deal more.
In Free Religion, we lose a -2 modifier with Qin, and a -3 modifier with Hammy.
Switching out of Beauro will lose us the current +4 with Qin.
We actually gain with Hammy right now, as his shared civic bonus is currently +2. So we would then move to +8.
We have an extra +1 from Open Borders coming up (edit: t194 or 195, so 10 or 11 turns from now).
So, that means we only need an extra +1 to maintain both at friendly, so they trade monopoly techs. We can get this by agreeing to a request, by gifting more techs, or by sharing a war.
I cannot emphasise how important it is to keep them both at Friendly. It is much more important than extra great people IMO.
We want to trade like tech whores, all the way to FT1.
Free Religion also gives +10% research, and +1 happy face per religion. We will have at least 3 religions, hopefully 5 in the biggest cities. This will help enourmously with sushi populations.
Trystero
Deity
If we run Free Religion, what happens to our status as AP Resident? We go from full member to voting member since we are no longer Buddhist. Can you be the AP resident and not be in the AP religion?
Edit: If I understand this guide correctly, no AP proposals will come up while the resident is not in the AP religion, until the next AP election cycle. Even if we lose the 2x voting bonus of being a full member, we should have more than enough votes to maintain our status as resident (unless one of the AI's converts to Buddhism).
Edit: If I understand this guide correctly, no AP proposals will come up while the resident is not in the AP religion, until the next AP election cycle. Even if we lose the 2x voting bonus of being a full member, we should have more than enough votes to maintain our status as resident (unless one of the AI's converts to Buddhism).
As long as we own the AP, and have not researched Mass Media, then we will vote ourselves resident, and we will be able to put AP proposals to a vote.
Yes, if Qin and Hammy go into Free Religion we will be able to maintain Friendly, but the only way to bribe them into it is to be running it ourselves. I don't want to just hope they switch into it.
Once they are in Free Religion, we could reassess and maybe change to Pacifism.
edit: but we don't have to some to decision about this just yet.
What does everyone think of a golden age super revolt ? FS, FM, Rep, Caste and either FR or Pacifism
Yes, if Qin and Hammy go into Free Religion we will be able to maintain Friendly, but the only way to bribe them into it is to be running it ourselves. I don't want to just hope they switch into it.
Once they are in Free Religion, we could reassess and maybe change to Pacifism.
edit: but we don't have to some to decision about this just yet.
What does everyone think of a golden age super revolt ? FS, FM, Rep, Caste and either FR or Pacifism
Works for me.
I have tried to incorporate everyones suggestions. If I missed any, let me know.
SteelHorse
Deity
OK - good point on the trading and keeping Friendly. Shared war driven by AP is always an option. Would be nice to get Hammy infected with Budd. The we can all jump on poor SB
I think delaying FM is a mistake. With the large # of cities we have we should take advantage. FR feels better to me than Pac, but would need to analyze to be sure. Rep & Caste go hand in hand and yes the combo is good for this us. It would be nice to get Rendentor to flip as needed. For example, Emance for growing new cottages.
Question: if we flip out of favorite civic, do we loose all benefits immediately? I assume so. And if we change back, do we start as zero again?
I am doing a deep-dive on the PPP (great work neil
) and will have any comments in the next few hours again targeting to play mañana.EDIT: Will also clean up a lot of the signs.
If we flip out of favourite civic, the accumulated bonus disappears instantly.
If you flip back into shared civic, you get most of it back again. It decays at the same rate it accrues, 1 every 10 turns.
Yes, delaying FM is not great.
How is this for a plan:
All on the same turn, in 7 turns from now:
- finish Economics
- trigger golden age immediately with GA.
- revolt to FM & FR. (this will make Hammy +10 and Friendly as we still have Beauro shared civic)
- trade for Nationalism (guaranteed at Friendly)
- start Constitution
In 9 turns:
- finish Constitution
- cash has probably run out
- start Corporation, Replaceable Parts, then Steam Power at sustainable rate
In 10-11 turns
- get extra +1 OB bonus with Win, Hammy, SB & Sally
- DoW Brennus again
- Bribe Hammy and Qin in (this should mean they stay Friendly when we drop Beauro)
In 14-15 turns, before end of golden age:
- revolt to Representation, Caste & FS (all banks must be whipped beforehand)
If you flip back into shared civic, you get most of it back again. It decays at the same rate it accrues, 1 every 10 turns.
Yes, delaying FM is not great.
How is this for a plan:
All on the same turn, in 7 turns from now:
- finish Economics
- trigger golden age immediately with GA.
- revolt to FM & FR. (this will make Hammy +10 and Friendly as we still have Beauro shared civic)
- trade for Nationalism (guaranteed at Friendly)
- start Constitution
In 9 turns:
- finish Constitution
- cash has probably run out
- start Corporation, Replaceable Parts, then Steam Power at sustainable rate
In 10-11 turns
- get extra +1 OB bonus with Win, Hammy, SB & Sally
- DoW Brennus again
- Bribe Hammy and Qin in (this should mean they stay Friendly when we drop Beauro)
In 14-15 turns, before end of golden age:
- revolt to Representation, Caste & FS (all banks must be whipped beforehand)
Trystero
Deity
I am good with the civics switches. I think FM ASAP is a good idea, and after looking at it, see no problem in switching to FR.
The more I think about it, the more I like it, because it guarantees we get Nationalism when we want it.
Another big bonus, trade Lib away asap before the rest of them learn Banking, bribe them into FR, then trade them Banking & Economics, and 5 turns after the FR bribe, bribe them into FM.
Another big bonus, trade Lib away asap before the rest of them learn Banking, bribe them into FR, then trade them Banking & Economics, and 5 turns after the FR bribe, bribe them into FM.
SteelHorse
Deity
Yup - I like the civic plan a lot more
A couple of comments on the PPP. Still working my way through.
All population growth unless otherwise stated will go in following order Town/Village/Hamlet/Cottage/Mine/Farm/Coast tile - as we are focusing mostly on growth.
In addition, I propose switching mines in Prod and Commerce to grow in 1 to Grass WS and Grass Hamlet respectively.
GP Farm build Bank after CH instead of Market (no need for happiness and return better for Bank).
Onto reviewing worker and War plans.
EDIT: BTW what we gonna do with the Christian Missionary.
A couple of comments on the PPP. Still working my way through.
All population growth unless otherwise stated will go in following order Town/Village/Hamlet/Cottage/Mine/Farm/Coast tile - as we are focusing mostly on growth.
In addition, I propose switching mines in Prod and Commerce to grow in 1 to Grass WS and Grass Hamlet respectively.
GP Farm build Bank after CH instead of Market (no need for happiness and return better for Bank).
Onto reviewing worker and War plans.
EDIT: BTW what we gonna do with the Christian Missionary.
Yes, fair comments. I think I started thinking Market before we made peace with Brennus, as the war weariness was high. Bank first.
Agreed regarding Commerce & Production tiles.
Christian missionary to Paris IMO, as this is definitely one of our Legendary cities.
Agreed regarding Commerce & Production tiles.
Christian missionary to Paris IMO, as this is definitely one of our Legendary cities.
SteelHorse
Deity
Question on the Memphis stack - Trebs will not heal in 3t, why not just load onto Galleon now ship, let them bombard while maces heal then take with maces. CR3 Mace should take the LB.
Rest look fine.
Rest look fine.
SteelHorse
Deity
Workers
2 near barb city chop out the settler
2 near sugar gem chop into bank
1 near Bib on forest chop
3 near Ski head to Isca for chop duty
9 near East Cost Gem - after irrigating, 2 stay for cottaging, 2 head to Durno for chop, 4 head to Stone for chop, the last one rustles up some food as the others are going to be hungry after all that chopping.
Actually looks like we have 18. Need to track down the missing dude.
What are the thoughts on settling 2N of horse a nice commerce site? Farms are already waiting? Or will this take too long to become economically viable?
EDIT: Okay at this point, I am pretty well set. Looking for some comments and/or greens.
2 near barb city chop out the settler
2 near sugar gem chop into bank
1 near Bib on forest chop
3 near Ski head to Isca for chop duty
9 near East Cost Gem - after irrigating, 2 stay for cottaging, 2 head to Durno for chop, 4 head to Stone for chop, the last one rustles up some food as the others are going to be hungry after all that chopping.
Actually looks like we have 18. Need to track down the missing dude.
What are the thoughts on settling 2N of horse a nice commerce site? Farms are already waiting? Or will this take too long to become economically viable?
EDIT: Okay at this point, I am pretty well set. Looking for some comments and/or greens.
I think the trebs in Memphis will heal, as long as the super-medic moves this turn.
But we could do it as you suggested, I'm easy.
I've edited in your changes into the PPP.
Happy to settle the spot 2N of the horses, as you say its ready to go, it will contribute enough.
GREEN from me.
But we could do it as you suggested, I'm easy.
I've edited in your changes into the PPP.
Happy to settle the spot 2N of the horses, as you say its ready to go, it will contribute enough.
GREEN from me.
Ducks have played another set, they have definitely accelerated their play.
At t160, they have a slightly better score than us (~10 to 15) and slightly less power.
Our graphs are very close together.
At t160, they have a slightly better score than us (~10 to 15) and slightly less power.
Our graphs are very close together.
Trystero
Deity
Green from me.
SteelHorse
Deity
Ah - hadn't factored in the SM.
Similar threads
