SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

I will put the bones of a PPP together today (once I get to work :mischief:)

I might have to finish some documentation first though.
 
Some notes:

  • I was building a chariot for garrison duty in WCS, but it was switched to a knight when we got Guilds. Maybe we should switch to a LB?
  • I am also building a LB in Barb City for garrison duty in Camel Dumdum (so the chariot can move back to Wheat).
  • There is also a perfectly good pike on garrison duty in East Coast Gems. He should be replaced with one of the LBs we are/will build.
  • We have a XB and LB in Stone who were following Brennus' GW's. Move one of them back to Bibracte.
  • I kept workers mostly away from Bibracte and Stone because of brennus' units. We should move some down there.
  • Once we have Biology, we really need to farm around GP Farm so it can grow.
  • Look at Hammy's culture in the graphs. Is he using culture bombs?
 
Hammy has definitely bombed a few GA's, thats what he gets for building all the Artist wonders.
 
Yes, I knew it obsoleted that, but I was shocked to see hammers as well. If you hover the mouse over the monastery, it says +2 hammers, but it doesn't add them to the total.

It doesn't obsolete the culture though, which also surprised me.
 
They are no longer in queues, as we can no longer build them, and the answer is about 10.

At least they were cheap whips. Lesson learned.
 
We whipped about 10, but we built about 17 in the last 11 turns I played in the mad dash to finish them before SM.

Edit: That tool tip is mighty deceptive. You'd think we were still getting the bonuses. Ah well.
 
That's really unfortunate, :(. We'll get over it, though, I'm sure. A positive note: we can now build missionaries everywhere! :p. We should probably do this. Given how long this game is going to go, I think it may well be worth it to get Buddhism in every city on the map. (And probably confused as well)

I'm looking forward to your PPP Neil!
 
On the bright side, we can build missionaries everywhere which is a huge positive! The culture benefit is also great. :) Looking at the save, some notes:

-Whip a library in Thebes now
-Remove unnecessary signposts
-Red Fish Blue Fish shouldn't be working a spy
-Work coast instead of plains mine sometime soon so the city can grow (and then be able to instantly work lots of specs)
-Barb city should work farm instead of watermill
-Zhou, grassland workshop instead of current plains workshop
-Stone, cottages instead of spices or whatever plantation resource it is
-Isca (rename?), replace all tiles with farms ASAP.


Game thoughts:
Interesting RNG leading to MT being researched early!
Annoying barb galley in our territory
We should start building settlers now!
Since Fake Humbaba is probably our worst coastal city at the moment, we could probably have it churn out workboats in the settling spree.
Lib target is practically ours! We could even use Lib to probably get Industrialism :lol: more realistically, Assembly line is also there which is also more expensive than Medicine. Medicine is in the bag and Libing it only saves us 6 turns which makes NO difference to Sushi because...well the limiting factor now is Corporations since we want an AI to research Const for us! Libbing Medicine seems like such a waste now since it's in the bag!

City spots:
-Tundra island north of Humbaba's Haven
-Desert island
-On tundra hill on the 2 tile island
-In the northeast, double fish, an ice island.
-South ice islands, double fish
-South ice islands 3 other cities next to Brennus currently.
 
Glad to see you still here, Revent! :)

Regarding monasteries: do we still get the +2 beakers from them when we finish UoS next turn? They are still state religion buildings.

Edit: I guess since we don't get AP hammers from them, we wouldn't get UoS beakers... :undecide:
 
Sorry about all the monastaries, I should have known better. Oh well, moving on...

A common theme in this PPP is building Banks, we want to whip these to coincide with us running out of cash and changing research rate.

PPP for turns 184-189 ish

Espionage
- Make SB level 2, but leave Sally at level 1 for 2 more turns, as we are close to the threshold to see his research
- After 2 turns, switch all EP's onto SB for 2 turns.
- After 4 turns, switch SB, Sally & Qin to level 1, and Hammy to level 2.


Trades
- Trade anything Hammy wants for Nationalism, if it comes up
- Get every spare gpt & resource available, check every turn
- NO trading with Brennus, he is Hammys worst enemy
- Accede to any demand/request from Qin/Hammy/Sally/SB except for Education
- For the next 4t, do not trade away Education, no matter what
- After 4t, pretend you are Mansa the tech trade whore

Techs & Big Picture
Maintain 100% research rate
- Biology (4t)
- Lib (1t)
- Economics (2t)
- GOLDEN AGE
- revolt to FM & FR
- trade for Nationalism
- Constitution (2t)
- Start looking at whipping Banks.
- Corporation as fast as possible
- Found Sushi in Bibracte
- Finish whipping Banks and maybe an executive or 2
- revolt to Rep, Caste & FS before end of golden age
- Replaceable Parts (?)
- Steam Power (?)
- Assembly Line (?)

City Micro changes

Paris - cottage shared with Clams instead of plains farm
Commerce - switch PH mine to grass cottage, makes it grow 1 turn earlier
Production - switch PH mine to grass workshop, makes it grow 1 turn earlier
Bibracte - work village instead of Oasis
Sugar Gems - mine instead of farm
Georgovia - town instead of village
East Coast gems - Gems instead of farm
Zhou - Grass workshop instead of plains workshop
Stone - cottages instead of spices
Barb City - watermill or farm? I was leaning watermill as it already has tons of food

City Builds - wow, we have a lot of cities :)

Paris - finish Stupa (1t) > Bank > Settler for southern 2 fish island

GP Farm - finish Courthouse(6t) > Market

Production - finsh Market(3t) > Bank > Levee

Commerce - finish CH (4t) > Bank > Levee (this will add ~16 base hpt)

Clams - Market (3t) > Bank

West Fish - switch to Bank

Barb City - finish LB this turn > Settler for 2 fish ice island > Bank

Zhou - UoS (1t) > Bank

Fake Humbaba - University > Salon

West Coast Silk - finish Knight > Bank

Wheat - Market (7t) > Treb ? > Levee

Red Fish, Blue Fish - whip LB this turn (edit: gets rid of the spy), whip Market 2 turns later > Bank

Bribracte - temple (2t) > Bank > Levee

Sugar Gems - Salon, whip in 2 turns > Bank

Ski Resort - Library > Bank

Camel Dumdum - whip library this turn > Bank

Stone - temple (4t) > Bank

Durnovaria - courthouse (8t) > forge

Gergovia - courthouse (4t) > forge

East Coast gems - lighthouse > forge

Isca - switch to CH > library

Pi-Ramesses - 6t revolt, whip forge when out of revolt > CH

Memphis - 7t revolt, whip forge when out of revolt > CH

Heliopolois - 8t revolt, 5 pop whip Bank when out of revolt > library > Levee

Thebes - switch to Christian missionary, whip this turn > library > Levee (edit: or whip the Lib ???)


Worker Micro

2 near barb city chop out the settler
2 near sugar gem chop into bank
1 near Bib on forest chop
3 near Ski head to Isca for chop duty
9 near East Cost Gem - after irrigating, 2 stay for cottaging, 2 head to Durno for chop, 4 head to Stone for chop, the last one rustles up some food as the others are going to be hungry after all that chopping.
Actually looks like we have 18. Need to track down the missing dude.

War / Units

Tidy up this turn:
- kill egyptian galley with Galleon 1, keep sailing towards Brennus (stay in open ocean, so it is safe from Ramesses galley's & triremes)
- move Pi-Ramesses stack inside city, Pikeman to attack HA from city (99% odds) and UPGRADE Nebuzzzzendndndndwer super-medic to Knight
- Lysander (super-medic) to move to Memphis and UPGRADE to Knight
- Heliopolis fully healed mace to move 1 NW to take a peak from the hill, then move back.
- Memphis xbow to move into Memphis & heal
- Galleon 3 (near Zhou), turn around and get that barb galley near Production
- Stone LB move to Bibracte
- East Coast Gems Pike move to Isca (will take 4t)
- Treb 18, move to Gergovia (will take 6t)

Next turns:
Depending on what the egyptian Mace & War Chariot do of course.

Memphis stack:
In 1t - Heal where they are standing
In 3t - Board 2 Galleons (3 maces & 2 trebs), Lysander super medic to move to Heliopolis
In 4t - Land on hill next to Elephantine - Galleons then sail for Brennus, they will arrive in 8 more turns
In 5t - Take Elephatine
In 6t - Heal for 1-2 turns, as required, then move on Byblos

OR

In 1t - Board 2 Galleons (3 maces & 2 trebs)
In 2t - Land on hill next to Elephantine
In 3t - Trebs bombard, maces heal
In 4 or 5t - Take Elephatine

Heliopolis stack:
In 1t - Promote treb and move inside Heliopolis and heal (2t)
In 3t - Move on Alexandria, via PH mine, take Knight super-medic
In 5t - Take Alexandria

Pi-Ramesses stack
In 1t - Heal
In 3t - Move on formerly barbarian city, leave x-bow from Isca to defend Pi-Ramesses
In 5t - Take formerly barbarian city

Isca mini-stack (2 trebs & x-bow)
In 1t -Reinforce Pi-Ramesses

Now, this might be a little thin and overly ambitious. Opinions anyone?
 
One comment:

neilmeister said:
Espionage
- Make SB level 2, but leave Sally at level 1 for a few more turns, as we are close to the threshold to see his research
Click to expand...

We can see his research. He just finished Paper this turn, and has not picked a new research target yet.
 
Revent said:
Game thoughts:
Interesting RNG leading to MT being researched early!
Annoying barb galley in our territory
We should start building settlers now!
Since Fake Humbaba is probably our worst coastal city at the moment, we could probably have it churn out workboats in the settling spree.
Lib target is practically ours! We could even use Lib to probably get Industrialism :lol: more realistically, Assembly line is also there which is also more expensive than Medicine. Medicine is in the bag and Libing it only saves us 6 turns which makes NO difference to Sushi because...well the limiting factor now is Corporations since we want an AI to research Const for us! Libbing Medicine seems like such a waste now since it's in the bag!

City spots:
-Tundra island north of Humbaba's Haven
-Desert island
-On tundra hill on the 2 tile island
-In the northeast, double fish, an ice island.
-South ice islands, double fish
-South ice islands 3 other cities next to Brennus currently.
Click to expand...

I modified the tiles micro to reflect your suggestions.

Disagree about need to settle lots of cities immediately, we need them when we have or are about to get Sushi. If we plant them now, they will hurt our economy too much, if we wait to when we can spread sushi to them, they will be easy to whip infra quickly to get them to being productive.

I do agree with your spots though, and we can add a lot of filler cities in between our current ones as well.

We could target a slightly better Lib target, but we would have to not trade with the AI. Assembly Line is 800 more beakers than Medicine, or 3/4 of 1 turn at 100% research.

I would much rather Lib Medicine and give away our tech lead so the AI can start contributing more right now. The tech tree forks 3 or 4 ways from where we are, and it would be very nice if the AI researched some techs for us.
 
Trystero said:
One comment:

We can see his research. He just finished Paper this turn, and has not picked a new research target yet.
Click to expand...

Yes, but if we take espionage of him, we might lose the ability to see his techs soon. We are only 40 EP's something above the threshold. Thats what I meant :)

edit: I have modified the PPP to clarify
 
Our biggest issue atm is Mining Inc. It will boost all our cities so much even if it's just by building wealth! We really do need a lucky GE! :lol:

Well, I think the idea is we should start building for a couple of cities. Double fish cities for example are v. attractive regardless. :) However, do agree that Banks should come first.

As for Lib target, I'm not particularly fussed. Lib Medicine is not bad :)
 
Agreed, the cities attractive to settling now are:
- 2 fish ice island in the north
- 2 fish tundra island in south
- maybe another double seafood island in the south

The Galleons will arrive near Brennus in 8-12 turns, to coincide with the peace treaty expiring, we should get at least 1 settler down there by then

The northen galleon can sail around the top of our landmass in a few turns, How about we change the Barb City production to a settler before the Bank (it doesn't have much commerce) and a Settler after the Bank in Paris for the south.

PPP modified to reflect this

edit: yep, praying for a GE :please:
 
I have updated the roster:

  • ChrisShaffer - (t0-31)(t147-157) - unavailable until 2nd week in December
  • neilmeister - (t32-57)(109-122)(t158-165)
  • Trystero - (t58-72)(t123-135)(t173-184) - just played
  • Revent - (t73-81)(t145-147) - currently on hiatus
  • Benginal - (t82-95)(t140-145)(t166-172) - unavailable until mid-December
  • SteelHorse - (t135-139) - UP!
  • vra379971
  • Deckhand - (t96-108) - available in December
  • Brian Shanahan - consulting

and the decathlon objectives:

The Decathlon objectives status: as of 11/29
  • Humbaba --an advanced era barbarian unit -- must be dead (Thanks Leif). He is a real monster just like in BOTM 41, but now lives in a fairly secluded place.
  • You own at least 2 Legendary culture cities.
  • You are EITHER the United Nations Secretary General OR the Apostolic Palace Resident. Completed! Voted AP Resident (t180)
  • You have learned Future Tech 1.
  • At least one AI opponent has been eliminated (conquered) by your team.
  • You own at least three Holy Shrines. Captured the Mahabodhi (t160), captured the Kong Miao (t184)
  • You own at least three Corporate Headquarters
  • You have stolen EITHER Iron Working, OR Astronomy, OR Physics using espionage. Completed! IW stolen from Brennus on turn 114
  • You fulfil the requirements for TWO victory conditions, at least one of which is NOT Conquest or Domination. (For example, your spaceship arrives on Alpha Centauri the same turn you get Domination, that’s two. If you achieve domination on the same turn as conquest victory, then you need one more victory condition to fulfil this condition. Understood? ).
  • Blazing: You must submit a save covering at least your first 100 turns – or victory or defeat - not later than 2 months after game start. - Completed! Played 101 turns on 10/16
 
Nice work on the Esp micro!

Any thoughts on using the GA for a Golden Age now.
Benefits - speed up core infra builds. switch to FS and FM after Econ without turn of anarchy.

Will look closer at micro in cities tomorrow, but how about in commerce, switching out one mine for the grass hamlet. Grows Commerce in 1 turn and nets +10 beakers at cost of 1 turn of CH (4.5 gold)?


Plan to finalize PPP tomorrow and play Saturday if that works.
 
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