SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

[SteelHorse]

Perhaps it may be worth taking out an isolated AI then.
Anyway, for diplo, we don't need everyone to vote for us! Our continent super powered with Sushi shall do the trick with some vassals. We don't need other AIs to vote for us and if we have double their power rating (very easily possible end game), they can't even declare

Good points and Congrats to Brian!!

 

[SteelHorse]

1. Sounds good.

2. We can trade for CoL this turn after we use the GS to bulb part of Astro:

OK. I was thinking on holding onto until closer as beakers increase, but this makes more sense as does Compass.

3. Once we get CoL prioritize courthouses in our high maintenance cities: East Fish, Zhou, and Fake Humbaba.

Yup.

5. Ramesses made peace with Brennus this turn. It would still be a good idea to get a unit down there to scout around and keep a look out for stacks. Maybe send a chariot when we can spare one. We don't have many available units at the moment.

Oops - missed that. Saves a tech bribe. Still worst enemies.

 

[Revent]

Phil is already founded. No longer a HIGH priority. Let's hope the one who founds Phil is one of the weaklings we can easily kill

 

[ChrisShaffer]

1. Get Caravels sailing - east with a missionary and west with a spy.

I think you have these backward - isn't it west with missionary and east with spy?

I agree with trading Compass for CoL after partially bulbing Astronomy. Also concur with prioritizing courthouses in key cities.

Looking forward to seeing the detailed PPP.

 

[neilmeister]

Also, no need or desire to revolt. I got a bit excited about the option, but i dont think it is a good one.

HR isnt needed until we have a happiness problem, which we certainly do not.
Caste is only useful in GP Farm, all our little cities still need slavery.

Whip the Clams caravel this turn, but since the spy cant quite make to get on board next turn, move the caravel 2 tiles east, and the spy can get on from the cottage.
Whip the East Fish caravel next turn as the missionary cannot make it until the turn after.

 

[neilmeister]

Perhaps it may be worth taking out an isolated AI then.

I vote for Brennus and Ramesses.

Religion bonuses will disappear by the end, so will the OR bonus.
We need to know who is on the other hemisphere before we can decide who might vote for us.
There wont be any isolated AI, they will all be huddled together.

I hope for Willem, as he is financial somight have some techs, but mostly because he is a Free Religion lover, which will almost certainly be a civic we finish the game in.

 

[Revent]

I vote for Brennus and Ramesses.

Religion bonuses will disappear by the end, so will the OR bonus.
We need to know who is on the other hemisphere before we can decide who might vote for us.
There wont be any isolated AI, they will all be huddled together.

I hope for Willem, as he is financial somight have some techs, but mostly because he is a Free Religion lover, which will almost certainly be a civic we finish the game in.

Oh those guys are DEFINITELY going to die. Plus, our conquest shall of the continent shall fit in with GLH trade routes.

Also, no Cre AI so no Willem. Tis a shame, he trades very easily as well (but at the same time, is a backstabber

By the way, I am strongly against building wealth in any city! Ind means we MUST be getting fail gold from wonders since it's +50% more gold!

 

[SteelHorse]

I think you have these backward - isn't it west with missionary and east with spy?

Yup

HR isnt needed until we have a happiness problem, which we certainly do not.
Caste is only useful in GP Farm, all our little cities still need slavery.

agreed.

Whip the Clams caravel this turn, but since the spy cant quite make to get on board next turn, move the caravel 2 tiles east, and the spy can get on from the cottage.
Whip the East Fish caravel next turn as the missionary cannot make it until the turn after.

Looks like Spy2 can move into Clams this turn (full movement remaining), so he can load and go when the Caravel is ready.

Oh those guys are DEFINITELY going to die. Plus, our conquest shall of the continent shall fit in with GLH trade routes.
By the way, I am strongly against building wealth in any city! Ind means we MUST be getting fail gold from wonders since it's +50% more gold!

Well then building an Army should start now - yes? I am PPPing in the start of the army. focusing on CBs (for melee) and Swords (for archers). Archers will replace Chariots as City garrison to free up for pillaging and a super medic.

 

[Deckhand]

Well then building an Army should start now - yes? I am PPPing in the start of the army. focusing on CBs (for melee) and Swords (for archers). Archers will replace Chariots as City garrison to free up for pillaging and a super medic.

Sweet, if we start on Brennus soon enough, then Ramesses will survive (for now) and with Astronomy we will have trade routes with him.

 

[SteelHorse]

Start of PPP - have at it while I look at the workers, boats, chariots, and other misc units.

PPP: t135->Astro

General:
1. Get Caravels sailing - west with a missionary and east with a spy. Open borders with any AI found. (If we find Humbaba ask him to join us to conquer the new lands).

2. Bulb Astro, Trade Brennus Comp for CoL and 50gold, Finish Astro 0% until can beeline at 100%

3. General Infra in cities - harbors for TR benefits, cottages in commerce cities (commerce, Wheat, Zhou), usual

infra in developing granary, forge, lh, lib. CH in high maint cities.

4. No additional cities at this point.

5. If we can spare a unit, see how the war is going and cheer both sides on. If it looks bad for Rams - stop and discuss to see if we can bride Brens out of war.

6. Start Army. Comprised of CBs for Melee units, Swords for city garisoned archers, a couple of Spears for chariots, archers to replace city garisoned chariots (for medic and pillage). Army will wait for Construction for Cats and maybe CS for maces.


Technologies:

Bulb Astro, Trade Brens Comp for CoL+50g, Res 0% until Astro can be taken at 100%.

Dealing with AIs:
Reject if Brennus asks us to join the war or close borders

City builds:

Fake - finish granary, CH until can 2 pop whip, forge, harbor, LH
East Fish - Caravel(1t then 2pop whip), Harbor, CH until can 2 pop whip, LH
Zhou - Switch to CH (2pop whip when available) -> Moai
Two Fish - Granary (whipped), LH(whipped), CH(whipped), harbor(whipped),
Paris - Market (3pop whip or not),Army (CBs, Swords) , Bud Miss

WCS - Forge (2pop whip when available)-> CH until can 2 pop whip
Wheat - granary (worker 2 chops FP 1N after farming, then road), chop forge, temple, barracks

Clams - Whip Caravel(2pop)->LH (grow back working food/cottage tiles), Finish LH, Army (CBs, Swords) , Temple
Prod - WB, Worker (to road for Army movement), Army (CBs, Swords) , 2nd WB for Two Fish, CH
Commerce - Aq (2pop whip or not - always work FP cottages) ->Army (CBs, Swords) , Monastery for research

GP Farm - Harbor, Temple, MoM for fail gold

Barb City - Finish worker (helps chop army in wheat, starting with PFH and mine), CH, Harbor

Worker and other unit micro:
Micro - Army
Gather in Wheat. Assume a direct assualt right down Brens throat. Pillage horses -> take Tolosa -> take Bibracte.
Assume Brens has a reasonable sized army after war with Egypt. Would be good to get them back at war a few turns before we attack. Bribe one or the other to get Brens army to the southwest, then lower the boom.

Micro - Boats:
Tri2 - sorts out the barb galley and scout northern ice
Tri3 - heads to the Bay of Benginal to protect against a water assault
Tri1 - heals in place.
Gal1 - 1S1SE, drop BM 1NE of horse, pick up CM next turn, ferry to piggies, and send CM to Paris? Commerce?
WB in GP - to Fish
Caravels - on exploration

Micro - Chariots
Ch12 - replace with an archer and move to Wheat
Chr9 - replace with an archer and move to Wheat
Ch1 - ditto - will become medic
Ch9 or 12 to scout Brens

Micro Workers
Teo - finish cott, move 1N repeat, move 1N repeat
W6 - finish farm, move 1SW, chop, road
W5 - finish winery, move to PFH near Wheat, chop, mine
W in barb city queue move to incense, plantation, road to prod
Huacan - finish plantation, move 1N, road, move 1N chop
W3 - 1W chop, 1NW chop
W4 - move to 1W of Wheat, chop, mine
W2 - finish cottage, 1SE, mine
W7 - chop, cottage
W1 - finish cot, 1W chop,


Micro - Spies
Spy1 - to Tolosa
Spy2 - to Clams for Caravel

Other:

Get a chariot to start scouting Brens. Mark city units.
Keep an eye on Brens archer north of Paris
Ferry chariots back to mainland when archers can replace.

Pause points:

Meet new AIs
AI DOW
Anything significant and/or unexpected
Complete all objectives

 

[Revent]

Meeting new AIs: I think all trading should be postponed until we met most/all of the remaining AI so no OB either. We don't want to end up trading with the worst enemy of everyone if (s)he's the first AI we meet!

Re point 5, Rams and Brennus are at peace now.

Re point 6, how good is a crossbow rush actually? Can anyone point me to a video or guide of it?

Also, can we start scouting around for Brennus's stack so that we know roughly how many units we should be building? I think it's fair to assume maximum 3 losses of crossbows and lots of cats that will suicide against the cities? Is it better to wait for Engineering first to get a higher hammer efficiency? Are crossbows better than maces? Sorry, will be asking quite a few questions since this is not my forte! I normally do a Cuir break out

Are we going to be a war-peace-war-peace with Brennus so that we get time to heal and regroup? Something like let us stop this pointless fighting will also mean that we can declare at will once we've regrouped.

 

[SteelHorse]

Meeting new AIs: I think all trading should be postponed until we met most/all of the remaining AI so no OB either. We don't want to end up trading with the worst enemy of everyone if (s)he's the first AI we meet!

Tend to agree, will stop at meeting AI and will discuss. But if something really juicy is sitting there

Re point 5, Rams and Brennus are at peace now.

I knew that - just testing you.

Re point 6, how good is a crossbow rush actually? Can anyone point me to a video or guide of it?

Well without Cats or Maces - do we have a better option? If we want to wait until CS and Const then Mace and Cat is clearly better. I thought folks were suggesting DoW to coincide with Astro and TRs. If we chose that route then we can build more infra instead of army this turnset. Perhaps he will get and trade us Const.
I think having Brennus at war with Rams is the key, if he is fighting on two fronts. He is dead.

Also, can we start scouting around for Brennus's stack so that we know roughly how many units we should be building? I think it's fair to assume maximum 3 losses of crossbows and lots of cats that will suicide against the cities? Is it better to wait for Engineering first to get a higher hammer efficiency? Are crossbows better than maces? Sorry, will be asking quite a few questions since this is not my forte! I normally do a Cuir break out

Ditto - see comments above.

Are we going to be a war-peace-war-peace with Brennus so that we get time to heal and regroup? Something like let us stop this pointless fighting will also mean that we can declare at will once we've regrouped.

Situation dependent.

 

[Revent]

Hmm..I see. Well I would've thought that you know, with Cats, we could probably even finish the AI with a swordsman so it's really about efficiency of hammers when choosing what unit to build. I'm liking maces war to be honest. What we could do is start building catapults everywhere now and as soon as maces come, we mass whip everywhere. The reason I'm liking maces is because CR III Rifles are awesome!
Yes, a 2 front war for Brennus would be the death of him and a save for us!

 

[Deckhand]

Hmm..I see. Well I would've thought that you know, with Cats, we could probably even finish the AI with a swordsman so it's really about efficiency of hammers when choosing what unit to build. I'm liking maces war to be honest. What we could do is start building catapults everywhere now and as soon as maces come, we mass whip everywhere. The reason I'm liking maces is because CR III Rifles are awesome!
Yes, a 2 front war for Brennus would be the death of him and a save for us!

But we don't have construction yet. This has us preparing our initial army now, then when we get construction, we build the catapults and off we go. And/or/if Brennus DoWs Ramesses, then we fall upon him from the north (after his army is in the south).

 

[ChrisShaffer]

I lean toward continuing infrastructure, and waiting for cats/maces.

 

[neilmeister]

Sorry, my bad. I wasn't advocating DoWing to coincide with Astro.

Ideally, by the time we finish Astro (or thereabouts) we have met AI an established what techs they have, and if they might be willing to trade them.

If they have Construction, that would be best, as we could research Civil Service immediately.
If they don't have Construction, then that might be the best tech to research, depending on what Brennus is doing or researching.

Either way, army planning/building should wait, unless our cities have nothing else to build.
We only have 1 barracks currently, and every extra unit costs us upkeep.

Cats or Trebs are obviously essential. Cats should be OK as Brennus' units suck, even if he has lots.
Maces are best, but Crossbows promoted with Drill can also be devastating, especially since Brennus has a lot of Melee.

 

[ChrisShaffer]

2. Bulb Astro, Trade Brennus CoLfor CoL and 50gold, Finish Astro 0% until can beeline at 100%

That's a neat trick, trading CoL for CoL.

 

[neilmeister]

YLooks like Spy2 can move into Clams this turn (full movement remaining), so he can load and go when the Caravel is ready.

Great, I was thinking of the previous save, when it had no movement left.

Well then building an Army should start now - yes? I am PPPing in the start of the army. focusing on CBs (for melee) and Swords (for archers). Archers will replace Chariots as City garrison to free up for pillaging and a super medic.

Don't worry too much about Archers for MP duty or pillagingeither. Brennus has lots of metal, its everywhere, so I doubt we will be able to pillage it

Chariot in Barb City already has Combat I & Medic I, he is our super medic when we get the first great general.

edit

I lean toward continuing infrastructure, and waiting for cats/maces.

Agreed

 

[neilmeister]

City builds:

No whips in our core cities: Paris, Production, GP Farm, Commerce. For several reasons:
- Our happy cap is huge
- All core cities have good tiles/specialists to work
- We want to 'store' population, for a massive army whip once we have the technologies

Fake - finish granary, CH until can 2 pop whip, forge, harbor, LH
East Fish - Caravel(1t then 2pop whip), Harbor, CH until can 2 pop whip, LH
Zhou - Switch to CH (2pop whip when available) -> Moai
Two Fish - Granary (whipped), LH(whipped), CH(whipped), harbor(whipped),
Paris - Market (3pop whip), Army (2 Archers, CBs, Swords), Buddhist Mish for Zhou. Then CB's

WCS - Forge (2pop whip when available)-> CH until can 2 pop whip
Wheat - granary (worker 2 chops FP 1N after farming, then road), forge, barracks, Army chopping

Clams - Whip Caravel(2pop)->LH (grow back working food/cottage tiles), Finish LH, Army (CBs, Swords)
Prod - WB, Worker (to road for Army movement), -> Barracks Army(CB, Swords).
Commerce - Aq (2pop whip - always work FP cottages) -> Barracks ->Army(CB, Swords).
Barb City - Finish worker -> Courthouse -> Harbor

I agree with most of the plan, my main objection is whipping the core cities.
We want them to grow, for a variety of reasons, but the most important is 'storing' citizens for a mass whip of an insta army.

 

[SteelHorse]

OK. Will rework city builds for the 4-5 cities working on Army and correct some typos.