SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

[ChrisShaffer]

Yes, Deckhand is right, we have to wait for Alan's OK before we can look at our post in other threads.

 

[Benginal]

@ SH

 

[ChrisShaffer]

Green

 

[SteelHorse]

OK. Played a couple of moves now to get things rolling.
Noticed the plan lacked a unit to replace a chariot for scouting so added into queue for Barb City.

Paused as Brennus has Construction for Trade . I don't see a hurry to take at this point but wanted to get opinions. He would take MC.

Rest is as planned. Caravels are sailing. Noting unexpected except a second barb galley in the north. so i retreated a trireme on the fish outside GPFarm and redirected the new trireme to the north.

I am going to check the save in. Just in case. If I see a couple of greens in the next hour I will play a few more moves.

No screens - apologies.

Autolog

Spoiler :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 135/500 (500 AD) [01-Nov-2012 21:01:06]

A Cottage was built near Zhou
A Cottage was built near Commerce
Tech traded to Brennus (Celtia): Compass
Tech acquired (trade, lightbulb, hut, espionage): Code of Laws
Zhou begins: Courthouse (20 turns)
Clams begins: Barracks (5 turns)
Clams begins: Buddhist Temple (7 turns)
Production begins: Work Boat (2 turns)
Production begins: Courthouse (6 turns)
Commerce begins: Buddhist Monastery (9 turns)
GP Farm begins: Harbor (9 turns)
GP Farm begins: Buddhist Missionary (6 turns)
GP Farm begins: Buddhist Monastery (7 turns)
Barb City begins: Courthouse (10 turns)
Barb City begins: Archer (3 turns)
Fake Humbaba begins: Forge (12 turns)
Fake Humbaba begins: Harbor (16 turns)
Fake Humbaba begins: Lighthouse (12 turns)
West Coast Silk begins: Courthouse (20 turns)
Wheat begins: Forge (30 turns)
Wheat begins: Barracks (25 turns)
Wheat begins: Buddhist Temple (40 turns)
Two Fish begins: Lighthouse (60 turns)
Two Fish begins: Courthouse (120 turns)
Two Fish begins: Harbor (80 turns)
Paris begins: Buddhist Monastery (5 turns)
0% Research: 15 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 66 per turn, 215 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in Commerce
The whip was applied in Clams
Paris grows to size 10
GP Farm grows to size 8
GP Farm finishes: Work Boat
Commerce grows to size 9
Commerce finishes: Aqueduct
Clams finishes: Caravel
Barb City finishes: Worker

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Ramesses II (Egypt) towards Louis XIV (France), from 'Cautious' to 'Annoyed'

Turn 136/500 (520 AD) [01-Nov-2012 21:12:18]
A Winery was built near Barb City
A Cottage was built near East Fish
A Farm was built near Wheat
0% Research: 15 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
100% Gold: 68 per turn, 281 in the bank

After End Turn:
The whip was applied in East Fish
Production grows to size 9
Production finishes: Work Boat
A Village was built near Commerce
Clams finishes: Lighthouse
East Fish grows to size 5
East Fish finishes: Caravel
A Hamlet was built near East Fish
Zhou grows to size 5
West Coast Silk grows to size 4
Wheat grows to size 2

Turn 137/500 (540 AD) [01-Nov-2012 21:22:11]
A Fishing Boats was built near GP Farm
A Plantation was built near West Coast Silk

Turn Log

Spoiler :

ere is your Session Turn Log from 500 AD to 540 AD:

Turn 135, 500 AD: Commerce can hurry Aqueduct for 2⇴ with 9ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 135, 500 AD: Clams has grown to size 9.
Turn 135, 500 AD: Clams can hurry Caravel for 2⇴ with 29ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 135, 500 AD: East Fish has grown to size 6.
Turn 135, 500 AD: East Fish can hurry Caravel for 2⇴ with 23ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 12 turns.
Turn 135, 500 AD: Barb City can hurry Worker for 3⇴ with 19ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 29 turns.
Turn 135, 500 AD: Zhou has grown to size 4.
Turn 135, 500 AD: Brennus will trade Code of Laws
Turn 135, 500 AD: Brennus will trade Sugar
Turn 135, 500 AD: Brennus has 120 gold available for trade.
Turn 135, 500 AD: Ramesses II is the worst enemy of Brennus.
Turn 135, 500 AD: Brennus is the worst enemy of Ramesses II.
Turn 135, 500 AD: Brennus will trade Code of Laws
Turn 135, 500 AD: Brennus will trade Sugar
Turn 135, 500 AD: You have discovered Code of Laws!
Turn 135, 500 AD: Paris will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 135, 500 AD: GP Farm will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 135, 500 AD: Commerce will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 135, 500 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in GP Farm. Work has now begun on a Harbor.
Turn 135, 500 AD: You have constructed a Aqueduct in Commerce. Work has now begun on a Buddhist Monastery.
Turn 135, 500 AD: You have trained a Caravel in Clams. Work has now begun on a Lighthouse.
Turn 135, 500 AD: You have trained a Worker in Barb City. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 135, 500 AD: Louis Armstrong (Great Artist) has been born in a far away land!

Turn 136, 520 AD: Paris has grown to size 10.
Turn 136, 520 AD: Paris can hurry Market for 2⇴ with 9ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 136, 520 AD: GP Farm has grown to size 8.
Turn 136, 520 AD: GP Farm can hurry Harbor for 3⇴ with 16ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 136, 520 AD: Production can hurry Work Boat for 1⇴ with 24ℤ overflow, 18ℴ added to the treasury, and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 136, 520 AD: Commerce has become healthy.
Turn 136, 520 AD: Commerce can hurry Buddhist Monastery for 2⇴ with 4ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 136, 520 AD: Clams can hurry Lighthouse for 1⇴ with 22ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 136, 520 AD: Production will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 136, 520 AD: East Fish will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 136, 520 AD: Zhou will grow to size 5 on the next turn.
Turn 136, 520 AD: West Coast Silk will grow to size 4 on the next turn.
Turn 136, 520 AD: Wheat will grow to size 2 on the next turn.
Turn 136, 520 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Production. Work has now begun on a Work Boat.
Turn 136, 520 AD: You have constructed a Lighthouse in Clams. Work has now begun on a Barracks.
Turn 136, 520 AD: You have trained a Caravel in East Fish. Work has now begun on a Harbor.

Turn 137, 540 AD: The enemy has been spotted near GP Farm!
Turn 137, 540 AD: Production has grown to size 9.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Barb City can hurry Courthouse for 3⇴ with 26ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 27 turns.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Zhou has grown to size 5.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Fake Humbaba can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 9ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 137, 540 AD: West Coast Silk has grown to size 4.
Turn 137, 540 AD: West Coast Silk can hurry Forge for 2⇴ with 26ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Wheat has grown to size 2.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Brennus will trade Construction
Turn 137, 540 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Zhou.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Commerce will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Clams will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Barb City will grow to size 8 on the next turn.

 

[neilmeister]

I was thinking more about the other hemisphere and the likely scenarios.

Worst case: 2 AI each in both Hinduism & Judaism, both religions well spread.

Best realistic case: 3 AI in 1 religion, in a love fest and hate the 4th AI.

Best unrealistic case: Tokugawa founded both, and there have been no spreads. 3 AI have no religion and will all become buddhists.

 

[neilmeister]

Sorry, didn't even notice the x-post.

I agree, don't trade.

Construction is always an AI priority, so we can hope to get it from the other hemisphere.

What this does confirm is that we don't have to tech Construction ourselves. If we need to trade MC for it later with Brennus, thats not a big loss, as long as the invasion comes soon after.

edit: GREEN from me to continue.

 

[SteelHorse]

What this does confirm is that we don't have to tech Construction ourselves. If we need to trade MC for it later with Brennus, thats not a big loss, as long as the invasion comes soon after.

Exactly - more good news for us.

Will wait for another green, if not tonight, please observe the 24 hour rule and continue without me if I go silent.

 

[Revent]

Green from me

 

[SteelHorse]

I was thinking more about the other hemisphere and the likely scenarios.

Worst case: 2 AI each in both Hinduism & Judaism, both religions well spread.

Best realistic case: 3 AI in 1 religion, in a love fest and hate the 4th AI.

Best unrealistic case: Tokugawa founded both, and there have been no spreads. 3 AI have no religion and will all become buddhists.

Could worst be 4 AI in Hindu and founder of Hindu also founded Judaism and they all hate us on contact? I'm just sayin.

 

[Revent]

I'd like to mention that we stop on meeting an AI. I think we get 1-3 turns before the religion diplomatic negatives come into effect so any trading, we should do ASAP on meeting an AI imo.

 

[Revent]

Also, bear in mind, soon we MAY no longer be friendly with Brennus. Fair trade decays pretty quickly and sooner or later, we will get closer border tensions.

 

[SteelHorse]

Played 2 more turns - met an AI!

Argh! lost a trireme at 88% outside of GPFarm.
Switched GPFarm back to a Trireme.

Rest as planned.

That's it for tonight for me. Look forward to discussions on our new aquaintence.


Here is the save:
http://gotm.civfanatics.net/download.php?file=Unusual_Suspects_SG016_AD0580_01.CivBeyondSwordSave

Turnlog:

Spoiler :

Here is your Session Turn Log from 540 AD to 580 AD:

Turn 137, 540 AD: The enemy has been spotted near GP Farm!
Turn 137, 540 AD: Production has grown to size 9.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Barb City can hurry Courthouse for 3⇴ with 26ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 27 turns.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Zhou has grown to size 5.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Fake Humbaba can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 9ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 137, 540 AD: West Coast Silk has grown to size 4.
Turn 137, 540 AD: West Coast Silk can hurry Forge for 2⇴ with 26ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Wheat has grown to size 2.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Brennus will trade Construction
Turn 137, 540 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Zhou.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Commerce will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Clams will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Barb City will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Ramesses II is the worst enemy of Brennus.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Brennus is the worst enemy of Ramesses II.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Brennus will trade Construction
Turn 137, 540 AD: Brennus will trade Sugar
Turn 137, 540 AD: Commerce will grow to size 10 on the next turn.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Clams will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 137, 540 AD: Barb City will grow to size 8 on the next turn.
Turn 137, 540 AD: You have constructed a Market in Paris. Work has now begun on a Buddhist Monastery.
Turn 137, 540 AD: You have trained a Work Boat in Production. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.
Turn 137, 540 AD: You have constructed a Forge in West Coast Silk. Work has now begun on a Courthouse.

Turn 138, 560 AD: The enemy has been spotted near GP Farm!
Turn 138, 560 AD: Paris can hurry Buddhist Monastery for 2⇴ with 6ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 19 turns.
Turn 138, 560 AD: Commerce has grown to size 10.
Turn 138, 560 AD: Clams has grown to size 8.
Turn 138, 560 AD: Barb City has grown to size 8.
Turn 138, 560 AD: Zhou can hurry Courthouse for 2⇴ with 16ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 15 turns.
Turn 138, 560 AD: Fake Humbaba can hurry Granary for 1⇴ with 14ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 138, 560 AD: Brennus has 80 gold available for trade.
Turn 138, 560 AD: The borders of Two Fish are about to expand.
Turn 138, 560 AD: Brennus will trade Spices
Turn 138, 560 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Clams.
Turn 138, 560 AD: Louis XIV's Trireme 2 (Clams) (2.00) vs Barbarian's Galley (1.42)
Turn 138, 560 AD: Combat Odds: 88.1%
Turn 138, 560 AD: (Plot Defense: +10%)
Turn 138, 560 AD: (Class Attack: -50%)
Turn 138, 560 AD: Louis XIV's Trireme 2 (Clams) is hit for 16 (84/100HP)
Turn 138, 560 AD: Louis XIV's Trireme 2 (Clams) is hit for 16 (68/100HP)
Turn 138, 560 AD: Barbarian's Galley is hit for 23 (77/100HP)
Turn 138, 560 AD: Louis XIV's Trireme 2 (Clams) is hit for 16 (52/100HP)
Turn 138, 560 AD: Louis XIV's Trireme 2 (Clams) is hit for 16 (36/100HP)
Turn 138, 560 AD: Louis XIV's Trireme 2 (Clams) is hit for 16 (20/100HP)
Turn 138, 560 AD: Louis XIV's Trireme 2 (Clams) is hit for 16 (4/100HP)
Turn 138, 560 AD: Louis XIV's Trireme 2 (Clams) is hit for 16 (0/100HP)
Turn 138, 560 AD: Barbarian's Galley has defeated Louis XIV's Trireme 2 (Clams)!
Turn 138, 560 AD: Your Trireme 2 (Clams) has died trying to attack a Galley!
Turn 138, 560 AD: Paris will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 138, 560 AD: West Coast Silk will grow to size 3 on the next turn.
Turn 138, 560 AD: You have constructed a Barracks in Clams. Work has now begun on a Buddhist Temple.
Turn 138, 560 AD: The borders of Two Fish have expanded!

Turn 139, 580 AD: Paris has grown to size 9.
Turn 139, 580 AD: GP Farm can hurry Trireme for 2⇴ with 39ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 10 turns.
Turn 139, 580 AD: East Fish can hurry Harbor for 1⇴ with 24ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 18 turns.
Turn 139, 580 AD: West Coast Silk has grown to size 3.
Turn 139, 580 AD: Clearing a Forest has created 30 ℤ for Zhou.
Turn 139, 580 AD: Commerce will grow to size 11 on the next turn.
Turn 139, 580 AD: Clams will grow to size 9 on the next turn.
Turn 139, 580 AD: East Fish will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 139, 580 AD: Zhou will grow to size 6 on the next turn.

Spoiler :

Logging by BUFFY 3.19.003 (BtS 3.19)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 137/500 (540 AD) [01-Nov-2012 22:22:22]
Fake Humbaba begins: Courthouse (24 turns)
Fake Humbaba begins: Forge (12 turns)
Fake Humbaba begins: Harbor (16 turns)
Fake Humbaba begins: Lighthouse (12 turns)
100% Research: 292 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -165 per turn, 349 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris finishes: Market
Production finishes: Work Boat
Commerce grows to size 10
A Hamlet was built near Commerce
Clams grows to size 8
A Hamlet was built near Clams
Barb City grows to size 8
West Coast Silk finishes: Forge

Turn 138/500 (560 AD) [01-Nov-2012 22:23:05]
While attacking, Trireme 2 (Clams) escapes from Barbarian Galley (Prob Victory: 88.1%)
While attacking in French territory near GP Farm, Trireme 2 (Clams) loses to Barbarian Galley (1.54/2) (Prob Victory: 88.1%)
GP Farm begins: Trireme (5 turns)
East Fish begins: Courthouse (24 turns)
100% Research: 298 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
0% Gold: -168 per turn, 184 in the bank

After End Turn:
Paris grows to size 9
A Hamlet was built near Paris
Clams finishes: Barracks
A Village was built near East Fish
West Coast Silk grows to size 3
Two Fish's borders expand

Other Player Actions:
Attitude Change: Ramesses II (Egypt) towards Louis XIV (France), from 'Annoyed' to 'Cautious'

Turn 139/500 (580 AD) [01-Nov-2012 22:31:56]
Player contact made: Sitting Bull of Native America
A Cottage was built near Commerce

 

[Revent]

Great play SH

As for SB, not sure what to feel about him, I feel he is generally a very weak techer a lot of the time. His position is quite low in comparison to Brennus indicating a backwards continent. He still hasn't researched Alphabet yet or even Currency which is worrying.

As for our remaining AI, we can expect two from the following:
Saladin
Justinian
Tokugawa
Genghis
Mehmed
Suleiman

I hope it's not Toku

If so, kcd has made our game a heck of a lot harder

 

[Revent]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11931805&postcount=46

I think this is a nice summary of Sitting Bull rather than having to go to the XML code

Luckily, he cares very little for religion.

If the other continent is as backward as he is, perhaps it may be worth waging an inter continental war to vassal all of them first and then taking our experienced units over to fight Brennus AFTER?

 

[SteelHorse]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11931805&postcount=46

I think this is a nice summary of Sitting Bull rather than having to go to the XML code

Luckily, he cares very little for religion.

If the other continent is as backward as he is, perhaps it may be worth waging an inter continental war to vassal all of them first and then taking our experienced units over to fight Brennus AFTER?

Yes - He looks like he will have little to offer us and will not put up much of a fight.
Therefore

PS - Very nice summary on SB.

 

[Trystero]

Nicely done SH.

I can't stand SB. He never techs enough to be much use and doesn't vassal easily. But mostly he just poisons your water supply, over and over again. That said he isn't too much of a threat.

I will take a look at the save.

Edit; I almost forgot, GREEN to continue!

 

[Revent]

Yeah, SB sucks. So this is going to be a bit harder than expected. Perhaps we can eliminate him by taking over his continent and then create our own vassal and hope the RNG gods favour us? I think ANYONE will be better than SB

If you still want to keep playing SH, green from me btw!

 

[neilmeister]

Yay, another AI, SB is a pain, but he has 8 cities. So we will get 8 +4 trade routes when we open borders with him and get Astro.

The different religion thing is great, he will only ever have -1 for different religion, so in that regard he is the ideal civ to meet first.

The fact that he has construction is good, as the more AI that have a tech, the more likely they are to trade it, unless they are SB that is.

 

[Trystero]

SB also built the Pyramids (and HG).

So, yes:

 

[Revent]

But the -1 does mean that we will get more diplo penalties with other AI who DO care about religion!

SB probably has stone. He has to die *evil laugh*

Edit: What is with that size 4 city founded at 425 BC that is number 2? I am thinking a great artist was born and the AI used a culture bomb.