SGOTM 16 - U'nu'sual S'us'pec'ts

[Trystero]

I'll have to check the number of trebs we have when I get home tonight (~8 hours). I can't open the save at work. We lost 3 of them taking Durowhatever and Isca.

My iPod tells me it is 5 am in Sydney.

 

[neilmeister]

Cant sleep.

I could check too, but need to go to my pc for that. this is being posted on my tablet in bed.

 

[Revent]

Bagacum looks like a horrible city. I'd raze it and settle that island 2S of its current location instead.
After taking these two cities, can we take peace from Brennus and kill him and Rams off at the same time? I know the feeling Neil

Did our Spy in SB's land get caught?

Edit: Re Bagacum, bearing that in mind, it is still a net gain because of TR's and can work some really nice tiles for us as well. Plus, all cities are good cities with Sushi

 

[neilmeister]

I am tempted to keep bacacum, but only if it has a courthouse.

After taking thebes, if he will give us his offshore city for peace, then we should take it.

Edit: dunno what happened to the spy

 

[Trystero]

I didn't realize we had a spy in SB's territory.

 

[neilmeister]

It probably perished in Ben's turn.

OK, I'm up now, and have opened the save.
We have:
- 8 trebs
- 12 maces
- 5 x-bows
- 18 workers (thanks Brennus)

2 guerilla II LB's defending a hill city with walls = pain.

Heliopolis & Pi-Ramesses are also on hills. Yeah, we will probably need a few more trebs.

 

[Trystero]

We will also need a chariot or LB to garrison Camel Dumdum and RFBF eventually. Camel Dumdum is the more pressing need.

 

[neilmeister]

Eventually is the key word there. Camel Dumdum has 12 spare happy faces
RFBF should probably do a LB next, as it only has 2 spare happy faces, although the market will give it 3.

edit: Cities like Wheat, Sugar Gems & Ski Resort can have their garrisons removed and sent to the front, they don't need them atm. We are still paying 32 gpt in unit maintenance, so we don't want extra troops that aren't needed yet (trebs are different of course)

 

[Trystero]

Eventually is the key word there. Camel Dumdum has 12 spare happy faces
RFBF should probably do a LB next, as it only has 2 spare happy faces, although the market will give it 3.

edit: Cities like Wheat, Sugar Gems & Ski Resort can have their garrisons removed and sent to the front, they don't need them atm. We are still paying 32 gpt in unit maintenance, so we don't want extra troops that aren't needed yet (trebs are different of course)

Yes - I would feel more comfortable if we didn't have a coastal city, near Egypt, undefended. I will move a garrison from an interior city to Camel Dumdum.

 

[SteelHorse]

edit: I think I wold also sell Drama & Music to Qin, Sally & SB, for whatever gold they give us. We don't want any of them researching useless techs.

edit: I think I would also put ESP on SB, we only need 3 turns on him to see his reseach. We have lots of spare EP's on Qin & Hammy, so we can take it off them for a while and still see their research. After we can see SB's research, we can reasses the EP situation, and maybe then do Sally. Opinions anyone??

Good points. But Sally looks far more interesting as a trading partner, why not start with ESP on him. SB is well behind Sally in tech.

On Drama and Music trades - Agree but sell 1 tech at time to maximize gold on each trade, we can see what Qin and Hammy are researching we don't need to worry about them researching Drama and Music as long as we sell before they finish their current techs.

 

[SteelHorse]

Once we have taken Thebes, he will probably give us the island city for peace, then 10 turns later we take X-rated. Saves us worrying about Galleons.

If we believe that he will not settle more islands in the 10 turns of peace this is true. And it looks like there are some fishy spots to the south east that might be tempting.

 

[SteelHorse]

Another interesting consideration is that there is a potential city site 2N of the horse. It picks up 7 tiles in addition to the city center that are outside the BFC of neighbors. 2 of which (1 grass and 1 river grass) are being farmed already for irrigation! 3 of the remaining can take cottages. And it can share tiles with other cities to work existing cottages as needed.

 

[neilmeister]

Good points. But Sally looks far more interesting as a trading partner, why not start with ESP on him. SB is well behind Sally in tech.

On Drama and Music trades - Agree but sell 1 tech at time to maximize gold on each trade, we can see what Qin and Hammy are researching we don't need to worry about them researching Drama and Music as long as we sell before they finish their current techs.

True, Sally is more interesting, it will take more turns before we can see his research, but that is no problem.

OK, 1 tech at a time, sounds sensible.

If Brennus is willing to give up his coastal city, I doubt he will have time to build a settler and settle it in the 10 turns.

Either way, I would take this gamble, we can always finish him later. We currently have -3 War weariness.

He hasn't met anyone else yet, and I think an AI can peace vassal unless they are pleased.

 

[neilmeister]

Another interesting consideration is that there is a potential city site 2N of the horse. It picks up 7 tiles in addition to the city center that are outside the BFC of neighbors. 2 of which (1 grass and 1 river grass) are being farmed already for irrigation! 3 of the remaining can take cottages. And it can share tiles with other cities to work existing cottages as needed.

Agreed, there are a number of filler cities we can put down, but that is probably the most attractive, because it already has worked tiles.

Settler could go ahead of the Stupa in Paris maybe.

 

[SteelHorse]

If Brennus is willing to give up his coastal city, I doubt he will have time to build a settler and settle it in the 10 turns.

Either way, I would take this gamble, we can always finish him later. We currently have -3 War weariness.

He hasn't met anyone else yet, and I think an AI can peace vassal unless they are pleased.

Yup - I kinda agree it is worth the risk, just wanted to make sure we were thinking about what could go wrong. Good point on the vassal as well.

In other news, the Ducks power graph is interesting. Looks like they start building up a good 30 turns or so ahead of us and by turn 140 are well ahead of where we were. And earlier than just about anyone else. Cats and Axes for Brens??? Perhaps they are going Conquest!!!

 

[Benginal]

Plans look good so far. Nice play Trys. I have no idea where the spy went. Maybe he defected?

In non-civ news, break is now over and it's time to grind. I'll be checking in, but won't be very active until after the 15th. Don't wait for me for greens!

 

[Trystero]

OK - here is a pre-PPP p) question for those better at judging whipping than I. I think we should do the following to get trebs ASAP:

Barb City - Whip Market for max o/f into treb.

West Coast Silk - finish Buddhist temple (1t) then start a treb and whip when possible

Wheat - whip monastery into treb this turn

Bibracte - whip Market for max o/f into treb

Stone - 2-pop whip monastery into treb

That would give us 5 more trebs relatively quickly. Do these seem like reasonable choices for where to apply the whip to get trebs?

 

[neilmeister]

Those cities look fine to whip, except for Bibracte, it very much needs a CH:

- Barb City, whip next turn, not this turn
- WCS, OK
- Wheat, OK
- Bibracte, whip this turn, but into a courthouse, not a treb
- Stone, change to treb, whip next turn

That should be plenty IMO

 

[Trystero]

Those cities look fine to whip, except for Bibracte, it very much needs a CH:

Amazingly, I was having that very debate. I feel rather good about that. I think we should concentrate on infrastructure in Bibracte.

And build monasteries in the new cities ASAP (before SM).

 

[neilmeister]

Great minds think alike.

If you can whip AP, just do it.
If we get AP, whip buddhist monasteries everywhere that is feasible.

I am assuming that we get Sankore, as it is done in 8 turns and no-one has Paper.