GK's screenshot is in the previous progress post
SGOTM 18 - Kakumeika
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
Mansa will not give both Mono and Medi.
I still vote for the shared war. Keeps them both busy. Don't forget, Mansa is annoyed with us. I don't want him plotting against us.
I don't think it's that important that we get Mono (OR) this early. It adds maintenance I believe and for no value. We don't have a religion AND we probably don't want to switch to one even if we had the option. That will just anger some of the others. We can switch to OR free later with something else like Bureau.
I still vote for the shared war. Keeps them both busy. Don't forget, Mansa is annoyed with us. I don't want him plotting against us.
I don't think it's that important that we get Mono (OR) this early. It adds maintenance I believe and for no value. We don't have a religion AND we probably don't want to switch to one even if we had the option. That will just anger some of the others. We can switch to OR free later with something else like Bureau.
bcool
Deity
I like the shared war too more than Mono, but will war even be possible?
Seraiel
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Ok, don't pillage that Corn, even with Genghis needing 1 turn to change the assignement of the Archers, he could kill our Warrior, because we need 2 moves to move and pillage that Corn, which is enough for him to assign a new mission, move onto the roaded Hill SW of capital, and then attack via the road leading to the south.
Regarding Mansa: It's an advantage for us if we give him Alpha now, because he then can choose his next text now, and he'll get it earlier on top. This could make us choose Aesthetics instead of Currency, or stay on to Currency if he'd chose Maths or Asthetics (or Metalcasting or whatever) .
I've yet still to see Mansa ever going to war from himself in any game though. Mansa is a backstabber, he's a whore that accepts being bribed against someone for getting tech, but chances for him to plot himself are so small, that I cannot remember a single game where that happened. Therefor, I'm also not afraid of adopting Hinduism, and I'm sure that Gandhi is on missionary strategy already, it just takes some time for him to build one and walk one over, as it hasn't been long ago since he adopted OR.
OR with Bureau is extremely late for my taste, HR, ok, but Bureau is 3 techs away from where we are now, I'm hoping very strongly, that we'll get a religion during the next 15 turns at most!
Regarding Mansa: It's an advantage for us if we give him Alpha now, because he then can choose his next text now, and he'll get it earlier on top. This could make us choose Aesthetics instead of Currency, or stay on to Currency if he'd chose Maths or Asthetics (or Metalcasting or whatever) .
I've yet still to see Mansa ever going to war from himself in any game though. Mansa is a backstabber, he's a whore that accepts being bribed against someone for getting tech, but chances for him to plot himself are so small, that I cannot remember a single game where that happened. Therefor, I'm also not afraid of adopting Hinduism, and I'm sure that Gandhi is on missionary strategy already, it just takes some time for him to build one and walk one over, as it hasn't been long ago since he adopted OR.
OR with Bureau is extremely late for my taste, HR, ok, but Bureau is 3 techs away from where we are now, I'm hoping very strongly, that we'll get a religion during the next 15 turns at most!
Seraiel
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Bribes when being in war already and at such early times are extremely cheap. I'm sure that this one would be really close, but I was able to bribe Civs in wars I was in already for techs like i. e. Writing, so I think it's possible.
The test game indicates that Organized Religion will cost us 1
per turn.
We are Organized, so that should keep the costs of it from being too bad later.
If we do Organized Religion with Slavery, that will save 1 turn of Anarchy later.
I too feel that Gandhi is walking a missionary towards us right now
I like the idea of switching to a religion early. What does good relations with Mansa gain us now? I doubt he will DOW us from so far away any time soon.
Our cities certainly have the ability to grow upwards with some extra happy cap.
Gandhi is likely to spread Hinduism to us just like Joao and later spread it to Dr Evil/Swinger's Pad when they get open borders with each other.
We might end up getting only Meditation for Priesthood for Alphabet if we wait until Turn 38 and we don't have enough to do the war bribe.
I'd like to do the Alpha trade for Mono now, take the tech and small +diplo relations, and see what Mansa starts teching next turn.
It really is bad luck he picked Alphabet. In SGOTM17 we waited forever and ever for Mansa to tech Alphabet for us and he never did!
per turn.We are Organized, so that should keep the costs of it from being too bad later.
If we do Organized Religion with Slavery, that will save 1 turn of Anarchy later.
I too feel that Gandhi is walking a missionary towards us right now
I like the idea of switching to a religion early. What does good relations with Mansa gain us now? I doubt he will DOW us from so far away any time soon.
Our cities certainly have the ability to grow upwards with some extra happy cap.
Gandhi is likely to spread Hinduism to us just like Joao and later spread it to Dr Evil/Swinger's Pad when they get open borders with each other.
We might end up getting only Meditation for Priesthood for Alphabet if we wait until Turn 38 and we don't have enough to do the war bribe.
I'd like to do the Alpha trade for Mono now, take the tech and small +diplo relations, and see what Mansa starts teching next turn.
It really is bad luck he picked Alphabet. In SGOTM17 we waited forever and ever for Mansa to tech Alphabet for us and he never did!
Seraiel
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That's actually a really good argument for not wanting Mansa to go to war. I'm personally a little afraid, because Mansa's tech-rating was up in the sky in the latest demographics, but sharing wars with him later will result in him being able to give us techs for a longer time.
There's no reason to get Priesthood at all in this game. Self-teching it would be good for selling it to the Civs for money, then we'd have to know though how much we'd be getting for it, I think it's not worth it.
You just revealed something of great value to me...
The test game indicates that Organized Religion will cost us 1
We are Organized, so that should keep the costs of it from being too bad later.
We could still change together with HR. That's a gamble though, as we're not knowing if any Civ will tech Monarchy soon, so the change for HR could also happen in the time where we're already close to Bureau.
I don't think Joao will go Missionary Strategy if it's not his own religion. Also, Joao must have been autospread, because Gandhi's only on Mono for a really short amount of time now already, right or wrong? If Joao was a Missionary, then we'll get Hinduism in the next 10-15 turns for sure.
Can we simulate this? We need to know how much money we need to bribe Mansa in war against Genghis at T38. 1
= 1 :beaker: and Mansa needing 8 turns for Alpha means he'll have half of it complete then. Problem I see now is, that we could get the answer "That wouldn't be any benefit" or however that answer is called, I saw it in the test-game already when Mansa decided to go for Writing thus me not being able to trade the rest of it to him at all.Well, maybe we could do the Org Religion switch when we switch to Monarchy later.
In that case, I suppose waiting on Mono and trying the war bribe is ok.
Remember that Mansa maxes out at +3 relations from sharing a war. (Or +4 while we are actively in the same war)
I don't think it will be a huge benefit. Slowing down Genghis might be fun, but what if it slows down Mansa's tech or expansion?
@Seraiel - Ya, Joao got a random spread. Not enough time for Gandhi to send him a missionary.
If you want to see how to bulb Astronomy or Engineering with Great Scientist, then check this list out. This is the orders in which Great People bulb techs for you.
I think bulbing Engineering requires that you don't tech Fishing, don't tech Meditation, don't tech Civil Service, don't tech Theology, tech Alpha+Math+Aesthetics.
In that case, I suppose waiting on Mono and trying the war bribe is ok.
Remember that Mansa maxes out at +3 relations from sharing a war. (Or +4 while we are actively in the same war)
I don't think it will be a huge benefit. Slowing down Genghis might be fun, but what if it slows down Mansa's tech or expansion?
@Seraiel - Ya, Joao got a random spread. Not enough time for Gandhi to send him a missionary.
If you want to see how to bulb Astronomy or Engineering with Great Scientist, then check this list out. This is the orders in which Great People bulb techs for you.
I think bulbing Engineering requires that you don't tech Fishing, don't tech Meditation, don't tech Civil Service, don't tech Theology, tech Alpha+Math+Aesthetics.
Mansa seems to be cruising along pretty fast. I don't think a war will slow him down. If we're really worried about his tech speed, then we should stop spending EPs on him.
I'm not seeing a clear consensus on what to do
I'm not seeing a clear consensus on what to do
Can we simulate this? We need to know how much money we need to bribe Mansa in war against Genghis at T38. 1
Done
The test game indicates that...
Yes, 1/2 of Alphabet should
Alphabet is 487
Half is 240
Animal Husbandry is 160
Hopefully Mansa doesn't say he would have nothing to gain by DOWing Genghis.
Test game shows that Mansa does seem to slow down his teching a little during war.
If the team is still deadlocked in a while, I think it is up to the turnset player then to pick what to do
I've just thought of a good reason for the war bribe that I like.
Genghis will be quite angry at both his only neighbors, so later when he (inevitably) plots war the chance of him targeting us goes down by half.
(Mansa is already Worst Enemy of Genghis, but a DOW would make it permanent I think)
Also, we can switch to Hinduism and Mansa won't hate us and refuse to trade techs if we have some +shared war.
If you still like the war bribe idea, then I'll go along with it cause you have very good civ instincts and experience
I forgot we could do Mono switch later with Hereditary Rule if it looks like a good idea. Civil Service is too long to wait.
Ok, I'll give it some more time (and thought) and probably proceed with the war bribe.
but no priesthood? Is there really no reason for it? temples eventually. Don't take it even if it's free?
but no priesthood? Is there really no reason for it? temples eventually. Don't take it even if it's free?
Priesthood is nice because it unlocks Hereditary Rule and most importantly Code of Laws.
But it is extremely easy to self tech, especially if we already have Meditation.
If we are worried at all about playing a long game and running into WFYABTA before we start getting civs to Friendly, then it might be worth it to self research Priesthood.
Plus, researching it ourselves means we can trade it away to other civs in deals.
We could also carefully try to stay in the bottom half of the scoreboard with one trading partner in the bottom half of the scoreboard, but there isn't really a way to use that idea in a strategy
But it is extremely easy to self tech, especially if we already have Meditation.
If we are worried at all about playing a long game and running into WFYABTA before we start getting civs to Friendly, then it might be worth it to self research Priesthood.
Plus, researching it ourselves means we can trade it away to other civs in deals.
We could also carefully try to stay in the bottom half of the scoreboard with one trading partner in the bottom half of the scoreboard, but there isn't really a way to use that idea in a strategy
bcool
Deity
priesthood is a nice tech to sell for spare change, seems like not trading for it is worth it to me (and because it limits our WFYABTA
Here's my thought. After Currency, Aesth, Lit. I would hope that we finally research towards Civil Service. That means we need to have gotten math + CoL. If Mansa goes for construction or Monarchy or MetalC, or other (Theo?) then we will have to get CoL ourselves instead of trade for it. We will need Priesthood for that.
also temples some day.
So I'm thinking take PH while it's free.
also temples some day.
So I'm thinking take PH while it's free.
bcool
Deity
The time we spare trading for priesthood will easily be made up for the gold we get trading it to the other AI by researching ourselves.
True, that with No brokering, we don't have a lot of tech to sell. Nor do we have many buyers. I'm not confident that we'll get enough money back on a 97 beaker tech.
Ugh, can't decide...again.
Ugh, can't decide...again.
ok, I'll just get the war and forget PH.
Paused for Dr. Evil peace possibility and workboat danger (see progress post).
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