SGOTM 18 - Kakumeika

[Seraiel]

Solution 2 seems good to me. I'm guessing that building Wealth is to make the whip so that the city regrows next turn?

 

[WastinTime]

Instead of Wealth for 1 turn, maybe I could go Research for a turn and get Metal Casting 1 turn faster? I'd have to test that.

edit: quickly tested. I don't think I can shave off a whole turn of research.

 

[WastinTime]

Solution 2 seems good to me. I'm guessing that building Wealth is to make the whip so that the city regrows next turn?

1 turn of wealth or research will allow us to put 19 hammers into a HA and whip x2 on T78.

 

[Seraiel]

I think we need 1T of Research for Metalcasting anyhow.

What I don't understand is why we don't whip the HA on T77.

And do you have that game I talked of?

And plz say something towards the Academy. 50T is shorter then the game goes.

 

[WastinTime]

Ok, what I still don't understand why we are now pushing so hard for GPs if we want to use them in 15-20 turns.

And did you see the math on the Academy?

If we're getting a Gspy, we want that Gspy asap.

I saw the math on Academy. It proves my point about no academy.

T78 Gspy
T89 GS (for edu)
(with the help of a GE+ 2GS in Shark, we have a chance to get a GS for Academy)
T106 GS maybe.

So in this case we probably have less than 50 turns of research left, and, as I said, the GS bulb could be worth closer to 2000+. I could still be talked into an Academy, I'll have to look at the numbers when/if we see a GS T106.

 

[WastinTime]

I think we need 1T of Research for Metalcasting anyhow.

What I don't understand is why we don't whip the HA on T77.

And do you have that game I talked of?

And plz say something towards the Academy. 50T is shorter then the game goes.

we can't whip the HA in Capitalist until we have our GP. So we can do 77 if we don't work the gold (that was the original plan)

I do have those test save I think....

 

[Seraiel]

If we need 1T of Research like I assume, building that + delaying the whip is clear choice imho. Even without needing it I'd still delay the whip and build Wealth , because I seriously don't think that anything we could get 1T sooner through an extra-HA now could make up for working a Gold. (Genghis Capital would be the only thing that could give more, but it's difficult to plan that far ahead and 1 Gold = 11 with the Library, to beat that, Genghis capital would have to have 4 Cottages and I don't think it has more than 2) .

 

[WastinTime]

The PPP grew from a quick few turns to a full Turnset. Edits are in green here.

 

[bcool]

I don't have a lot of time, but I think we really want to get a trojan horse for Gandhi in your turnset. I don't see it in your plan for the turn set.

We need to give Gandhi a city near us so we can more easily flip him to to buddhist. I think we also might want to start shifting espionage over to Gandhi so we can flip him to buddhist asap.

I would build research in the capital instead of wealth (or perhaps rework it completely so we can get a settler out of the capital). We want OF into Theology so we can save either gold or time in the trade for Theology with metal casting.

I'm very pessimistic that we will get Gandhi's vote in the diplo election unless we take steps now to make it happen. I don't think getting shared war with Gandhi is going to be easy...

 

[WastinTime]

Gandhi has a new city and it could get buddhist. I'm keeping my eye on him every turn for a possible flip. I will change espionage now. It'd be nice to see what he's researching.

I put the Settler in the plan as early as I thought was wise. It wouldn't have to be for stone. We don't need stone until ~T110.
We'll need a missionary and EPs to flip him anyway, so we don't need to rush the settler now. I'm still hoping/expecting Mansa to spread it for us.

I think Wealth is better, but I don't don't want to argue about a couple beakers. I'll do Research.

 

[WastinTime]

Playing soon...

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

Building Wealth should be better than building Research, because we have Research multipliers (Library) and no Wealth multipliers.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[bcool]

We get a 20% prerequisite bonus on the research build so the difference between building wealth and research is very small, and we want to accelerate research right now since we have plenty of gold and don't expect to run out anytime soon.

 

[WastinTime]

Building Wealth should be better than building Research, because we have Research multipliers (Library) and no Wealth multipliers.

Sun Tzu Wu

Yes, I think we all agree Wealth the 'normal' better option, but in this case, bcool is playing on the chance that we can get Theo 1 turn sooner and/or spend less gold on it. It also has the outside chance of getting MC 1 turn sooner, but T81 forges fit very well into the plan and the only way to get T80 MC would be to build even more research which we cannot afford with HA's coming out.

There's not much value in getting Theo 1 turn sooner unless Mansa starts the AP. I don't know why no one is scared that he will do that. Is it because he's at war?

 

[WastinTime]

I can't seem to get an official on the PPP from anyone, but since I'm not getting much disagreement, I'm going to start changing signs and doing reversible actions on the real game, then play...

T74.5
2 Workers spotted on Corn (1N of other worker). We already have 3 works in our sights!


T75
Prophet born far away.

Pausing !! .... Gandhi has a buddhist city! Bad news, he's annoyed with us and won't switch.
Suggestion: Gift Currency to get to Cautious
Trade HBR -> Meditation + 20 gold + Switch

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

We get a 20% prerequisite bonus on the research build so the difference between building wealth and research is very small, and we want to accelerate research right now since we have plenty of gold and don't expect to run out anytime soon.

This is not a valid comparison. We get the same bonus on research regardless of building research or building wealth. The reason for building wealth instead of research is to increase the effective research slider. We lose 20% when building research versus building wealth and the only way to correct that imbalance is to also have a market. The same number of beakers must be researched either way. So, building research loses big (-20%). Building research to finish a technology due to slider jump points may be valid due to the slider being restricted to 10% increments.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

...
Pausing !! .... Gandhi has a buddhist city! Bad news, he's annoyed with us and won't switch.
Suggestion: Gift Currency to get to Cautious
Trade HBR -> Meditation + 20 gold + Switch

PPP is fine, though I'd prefer a higher probability Great Spy later. Metal Casting probably is better than Music for the reasons discussed.

Are we sure Gandhi will stay Buddhist, if we bribe him to switch? Currency is a bit expensive to just give away, if there is an alternative.

Not sure you are setting the right example by playing before getting consensus approval of the PPP by the team.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

We will be making heavy use of espionage in this game. Are we doing everything we need to early on to ensure we have the espionage we need when we need it? We probably should have switched espionage to Gandhi long ago. If we had, we might have enough espionage to switch Gandhi to Buddhism via a Trojan Horse city as bcool previously suggested.

What is our plan to get future Great Spies, if any? How will we use the Great Spies? Infiltrating Gandhi seems reasonable. Even settling a Great Spy is an option, especially if we can get another Great Spy to create the Scotland Yard in the same city.

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[WastinTime]

Everything has been approved...at least enough to continue the TS. I have tie-breaking votes on every detail, and I resent your comment that I have not been patient and fair to allow people time to comment. I don't feel that I'm rushing at all...even tho we clearly need to start rushing. Even now! I've waited 2 hours for someone to agree to the Gandhi thing before I continue...and the PPP even says we should convert him.

RE: Gandhi, he may not stay long, but we shouldn't have to give him tech just to get him Cautious next time. We can probably just beg/demand he return to buddhism. We might as well get him on board.
I think any alternative is many turns away. I'll keep EPs on him for a possible flip in the future.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

I'm ok with the current compromises in the revised PPP. I thought we were going to post each new PPP revision in new message rather than edit an old revision.

Sun Tzu Wu