SGOTM 18 - Plastic Ducks

[Dubioza]

Yeah no opinion on that really; 1T earlier Alpha doesn't change anything I believe. Which screens are the most important for info? F8, F9, Espionage (detailed, for cities?), score even? So you mean, save & stop every turn and present screens before continuing? Sorry for rookie questions

UE is playing 'till Alpha, right? After that, we can see who has the most time I guess.

 

[kossin]

Just a manual save every turn to prevent loss of autosaves.

Analysing AI techs comes from scoreboard and civics mainly.

 

[Dubioza]

Ok, thanks. Even with autosaves every turn & autologs on we can't be too careful, right?

Doshin explain please! I think it's the same, same city sizes, food & hammers...even with revolt @ T31 or T32 everything stays the same - except trades potential. And we're not sure (yet?) if we'll be able to trade stuff we want regardless of T31 or T32.

 

[kossin]

If one AI starts to research Writing, for instance, we lose the ability to trade for Bronze Working on one turn, The Wheel on the next, and Hunting after that.

This is one issue. We wouldn't have to work too hard to figure out what the AIs have by T31 as well

 

[Doshin]

It's a matter of flexibility, via earlier tech trading, and safety— Joao/Genghis/Mansa can demand a tech one turn sooner; if Dr. Evil threatens our Fem Bot or a city on T31, we can make peace.

If the Worker is produced on T31, Animal Husbandry and Bronze Working may also influence our micro, if Horses or Copper appear.

 

[UnforcedError]

UE is playing 'till Alpha, right?

Well, am I? I lost track of that a few pages ago

I'm OK with either T31 Alpha with -1C or with T32. I'm actually not averse to trading for everything on T32 and give up our Alpha monopoly.

So which micro is the winner so far? Worker without whipping in gold city? Granary start in pig city?

EDIT: I tend to secure my SGOTM auto saves which I think is good practice. We may actually need some data (demo stats or whatever) later on. So I'd certainly advise everyone to do the same.

 

[Dubioza]

Well, am I? I lost track of that a few pages ago

So which micro is the winner so far? Worker without whipping in gold city? Granary start in pig city?

Not sure, but I believe one more is incoming, we should wait for shakabrade to do his thing with TGW option...or was it third worker-settler micro attempt?

 

[kossin]

TGW would involve 4th settler I think... probably no changes to play prior to T32.

 

[UnforcedError]

TGW would involve 4th settler I think... probably no changes to play prior to T32.

Not sure. I think he wanted to hook up the stone via Sailing...

EDIT: MGN went for Alpha btw. Looking good, I think they got everything they needed

Spoiler :

 

[BornInCantaloup]

I feel strongly that a T31 Alpha with -1C is better than T32.

Supported.

I haven't opened Civ today or yesterday. Won't be able to, tomorrow.
Don't count me in the testings/votings/playings

EDIT: quick test to T42 says we're not necessarily better off whipping the worker on T32. More overflow is welcome to complete the Granary.
Otherwise, N-Y needs to work the gold at size 2, at least 1 turn. Maybe that can be done in a neat way.

 

[UnforcedError]

What do we gain from a T31 Alpha?
-- Our worker from Wash cannot start the pasture before T32, as far as I can tell...
-- Gold city can either produce a worker on T31 (on an FP) -- in either case -- or whip one 1T earlier with a T31 Alpha. Is it worth it?

 

[shakabrade]

I've had a terrible headache and have avoided monitors and light and daylight for the whole day.

But I have tried to get TGW yesterday and got it on T48. 4th city was settled on stone.

TGW really is cheap. Especially if we get it this late. Maybe it would even be wise to settle stone city just in time the chops should be done. If we lose TGW, we move settler to fish site and we lose less, I guess. Anyway, I haven't given it enough thought. Bic's save looks super strong to me. And until Alpha, Micro is probably the same.

Cheers, team!

 

[kossin]

Take care shakabrade

Anyone able to play then?

Alpha T31 vs. T32

In favor: Doshin, BornInCantaloup
Neutral: UnforcedError, Dubioza, kossin
Against: UnforcedError2 (I'm assuming you're leaning on against)

 

[UnforcedError]

Shakabrade, it's probably good you had so much rain today. Get well

I assume so far we're leaning towards Alpha on T31 then? I really don't mind either way I just wanted to point out that I don't see that many benefits other than being able to switch 1T earlier.

I can play if we are set on the micro... and if someone can tell me which one we finally approved of?

 

[kossin]

Unless I've been looking at the wrong posts: (double-checking...)

T15 50% of 18
T16 50% of 22
T17~28 100% (of 22-23-26)
T29 80% (lose 1C) of 26
T30 100% of 26

Both pigs and gold city can grow to size 2 on a 3F tile and whip worker on T33 if they are settled first. First city we settle whips worker into Gran on T33. 2nd city we settle should also grow on Granary and will whip its worker a little later.

Washington: settler--worker--settler at size 2, working Wheat and Gold, letting gold city to whip a worker and a granary and grow to size 2 (very important because that prevents stagnation in NY). Boston had some little micro to get granary whipped a turn earlier. It was my first try at settler--worker and one reload, so nothing too complicated. Maybe it can be tweaked too if I give it another go.

Washington: settler-worker-settler
NY: grow on granary to 2, switch to worker@2
Boston: grow on granary to 2, switch to worker@2

 

[kossin]

One thing to note... if the upkeep in the real game should for some unexpected reason behave differently than the test game, then forget about the T31 Alpha.

 

[UnforcedError]

^^Thanks a lot for the summary, kossin, seems I didn't miss any new propositions then

So, final ppp:
T15: settler1 moves towards gold city spot. Washington begins settler2. Research 50%.
T16: settler1 settles New York, which begins a granary on an FP. Research 50%.
T17: Research back to 100%.
T24: New York grown, switch to worker2.
T25: settler2 done. Washington begins worker1. Settler2 moves towards pig city.
T26: settler2 reaches pig city spot.
T27: settler2 settles Boston, which begins a granary on pig.
T29: Research 80%. (We should be certain at this point if we can get a T31 Alpha or not.)
T30: Research 100% (should get us to 0 gold).
T31: Worker1 done, moves towards pig. Alpha in. Washington begins settler3. Research to 0%. Trades, revolt if possible. This will be a stopping point anyway even if I play a few more turns.

About early scouting moves:
Little medbot can move 1SW and back this turn to get some more coastline info about Goldmember's city. It will then have to circle those hills to the W to move closer.

Warrior1: I was thinking of uncovering the immediate N of pig city (by moving 1NE, 1SE) and then move towards the N and W. I think we should skip investigating the plains jungle towards the W for now.

Warrior2: to land on the coast this turn (just to make sure) and then move towards the gap, to get us more info about the E surroundings of corn-fur site.

I can play tonight after work if you're OK with the above and there are no more incoming suggestions.

 

[shakabrade]

In any way, when hammers for NY worker reach 30/60, switch to granary. If we get Alpha on T31 and revolt, it won't be necessary, iIrc.

I am fine with your PPP. If you are uncertain about anything, please stop. And please don't trade anything. It is an ideal point to waste one more week on discussion.

Edit:

Shakabrade, it's probably good you had so much rain today. Get well

It would be if my headaches weren't weather related.

Thanks for the good wishes y'all.

 

[shakabrade]

One thing to note... if the upkeep in the real game should for some unexpected reason behave differently than the test game, then forget about the T31 Alpha.

Capitol has 0.29 maintenance in both real and a test save, map script and size are the same, and if coordinates of our capital are correct, there really shouldn't be any problem.

 

[Dubioza]

All is like it should be yes, if you tested with v0.8 or higher test save. Coffee with drop of lemon & fresh air helped for my metereopatic(?) headaches. Luckily, I don't get them any more and I use to have mayor ones, so I know how you feel. It might be combination with stress too...get better!