SGOTM 18 Pregame Discussion Thread - Austin Powers

[Gumbolt]

There's always time to reinstall Windows in my experience.

I expect to post the threads after I've dined this evening. So in a couple of hours. I can hold off on yours if you wish.

No don't hold back. I will wait for you to finish your 3-4 course meal. No spoilers please. I have not eaten my meal yet.

 

[lymond]

Alan eats food I thought he was a bot

 

[Gumbolt]

One assumes all objectives must be complete before the victory screen comes up? So you can't play on 5-10 turns to finish other objectives?? I assume you can use the turn before submitting the game to finish off objectives such as the legendary culture of a city or destroying the lair.

 

[Sun Tzu Wu]

A) In other words, can play continue after the Victory Condition to complete objectives not yet completed, provided the game is still submitted on the usual turn (no "End of Turn" after the Victory Condition announcement).

B) The alternative is objective 4/5 must be the last objective; any objective completed after the Victory Condition announcement does not count towards the team total of objectives completed.

Which is it? A or B or neither?

Sun Tzu Wu

 

[BLubmuz]

Good questions guys ^^^

In fact the existence itself of objective 5 let think that you can win, complete other objectives without time constraints if not a good finish date.

KCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!

 

[kcd_swede]

A) In others words, can play continue after the Victory Condition to complete objectives not yet completed, provided the game is still submitted on the usual turn (no "End of Turn" after the Victory Condition announcement).

B) The alternative is objective 4/5 must be the last ojective; any objective completed after the Victory Condition announcement does not count towards the team total of objectives completed.

Which is it? A or B or neither?

Sun Tzu Wu

As per (A) above! (Thanks STW for providing unambiguous wording).

 

[kcd_swede]

Good questions guys ^^^

In fact the existence itself of objective 5 let think that you can win, complete other objectives without time constraints if not a good finish date.

KCDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!

No, you must submit before hitting "end turn" after the victory screen comes up and you have clicked ""wait...just...one...more...", but you can move, culture bomb, raze, etc on that turn before saving for submitting.

 

[BLubmuz]

To summarize, the objectives are as follows:
1) Dr Evil’s lair is razed
2) You own the Swinger’s Pad
3) The Swinger’s Pad is Legendary without using Great Works (“culture bombs”)

1) and 2) do not need clarifications. 3) and 4.c) this means that we can use Great Works as usual in any Culture game in the chosen 2 Legendary cities, i suppose. This also means that Swinger’s Pad or another LC can be culture-spied at wish. Provided we choose that route or in any case for Swinger’s Pad.

4) You win the game by one of these conditions:
a. Spaceship lands at Alpha Centauri
b. UN diplomatic victory with 2 civs voting for you
c. Culture Victory where Culture Through Espionage does not exceed 4000 culture in at least two of your Legendary Cities.
5) You win the game in any fashion, including the above, but also including Conquest/Domination/Time/Religion/UN with less than 2 other civs votes/Culture VC that does not comply with above restrictions/and anything else not covered.

Let's suppose a team wins by Domination before the SS lands on AC. Can that team play until the SS arrives and thus complete #4 or is #4 no more valid?

To qualify for medals only #1 to #4 count?

Some of those questions were probably already asked, but just to collect every condition in a single post.

 

[Gumbolt]

My understanding is option 5 is only for teams that can't complete the original objectives. It's a way out for teams that don't want to post a losing save. So 1-4 obj for medals.

As for space after domination question. KCD has answered that question already.

A) In others words, can play continue after the Victory Condition to complete objectives not yet completed, provided the game is still submitted on the usual turn (no "End of Turn" after the Victory Condition announcement).

Obviously no as the spaceship has to land. I would forget objective 5 unless your team wants the wooden spoon?

A new question.

I assume there is no limit to the use of great artists to produce great works? So we could use 6-7 great artists to make a city gain 24-28k culture. I did read all the text and I couldn't remember if this was restricted or not. I can see use of spies espionage is restricted.

 

[kcd_swede]

1) and 2) do not need clarifications.

That's a relief.

3) and 4.c) this means that we can use Great Works as usual in any Culture game in the chosen 2 Legendary cities, i suppose.

Correct.

This also means that Swinger’s Pad or another LC can be culture-spied at wish.

Yes, you may culture-spy as much in as many cities as you wish. However, ONLY in the event you plan to win by CULTURE VC, then two of your legendary cities must come without more than 4000 culture by Espionage. You want to go for 4 legendary cities, be my guest--only TWO of them need to be free of more than 4000 culture by espionage. None of the other victory conditions have any restriction on how and where you may use spies for culture.

Provided we choose that route or in any case for Swinger’s Pad.Let's suppose a team wins by Domination before the SS lands on AC. Can that team play until the SS arrives and thus complete #4 or is #4 no more valid?

No. Game over with Objective #5 complete but not objective #4. If you get domination on the same turn as SS landing, you are leaving it to random which victory the game assigns you. I am assuming you won't be that clumsy to leave it to chance.

To qualify for medals only #1 to #4 count?

Ummm... no... 1-5 count. But of course, it is impossible to complete #4 without also completing #5, so if you want to call it objectives 1-4, that's fine. You are assuming of course that enough teams will take all the Laurels by completing objectives 1-4. Perhaps that is a good assumption...

Some of those questions were probably already asked, but just to collect every condition in a single post.

No problem. Soundjata was also scratching his head about ¤5.

 

[kcd_swede]

My understanding is option 5 is only for teams that can't complete the original objectives.

Yes.

It's a way out for teams that don't want to post a losing save. So 1-4 obj for medals.

Only if you assume that at least 3 teams will complete all the objectives. Might be a good bet, but not a certainty.

As for space after domination question. KCD has answered that question already.

I'll answer it as many times as you need to be sure you know the rules.

A) In others words, can play continue after the Victory Condition to complete objectives not yet completed, provided the game is still submitted on the usual turn (no "End of Turn" after the Victory Condition announcement).

That's the (unambiguous) rule.

A new question.

I assume there is no limit to the use of great artists to produce great works? So we could use 6-7 great artists to make a city gain 24-28k culture. I did read all the text and I couldn't remember if this was restricted or not. I can see use of spies espionage is restricted.

Great Works by Great artists are only prohibitted in the Swinger's Pad. Nothing else a Great Artist can do is restricted. Use them as you like anywhere else.

 

[BLubmuz]

Thanks for your answers KCD and for your patience. But you know, i'm growing older and my 2 neurons are tired.

No. Game over with Objective #5 complete but not objective #4. If you get domination on the same turn as SS landing, you are leaving it to random which victory the game assigns you. I am assuming you won't be that clumsy to leave it to chance.

Clear!

Ummm... no... 1-5 count. But of course, it is impossible to complete #4 without also completing #5, so if you want to call it objectives 1-4, that's fine. You are assuming of course that enough teams will take all the Laurels by completing objectives 1-4. Perhaps that is a good assumption...

Is this that makes me not understand:
- #4 is very restrictive and presents many challenges (added to the ones of this scenario)
- #5 is smtng like "win as you can, but win"
I think that it must be a difference between teams completing #4 and teams completing #5. Assuming someone can complete #4.
BTW what if an AI launches the SS and land it on AC? is it game over as usual or you can continue to play to get #5?

My understanding is option 5 is only for teams that can't complete the original objectives. It's a way out for teams that don't want to post a losing save. So 1-4 obj for medals.

It was my understanding too.

Actually #4 is like #5 only for a SS VC. It's the only VC which justifies "2 for the price of 1". Any other VC is different (or not listed in #4).

KCD, i already said that #4 and #5 conflict each other. The only reason to have both is to let teams which cannot complete #4 win the game. But you must assume that a team can complete #4 and set the rules accordingly. Not that i'm saying FE will do, just to avoid discussion in December.

Sorry it's my "lawyer" side from the times i was fighting for Labour Contracts.

 

[kcd_swede]

Thanks for your answers KCD and for your patience. But you know, i'm growing older and my 2 neurons are tired.
Clear!Is this that makes me not understand:
- #4 is very restrictive and presents many challenges (added to the ones of this scenario)
- #5 is smtng like "win as you can, but win"
I think that it must be a difference between teams completing #4 and teams completing #5. Assuming someone can complete #4.
BTW what if an AI launches the SS and land it on AC? is it game over as usual or you can continue to play to get #5?

It was my understanding too.

Actually #4 is like #5 only for a SS VC. It's the only VC which justifies "2 for the price of 1". Any other VC is different (or not listed in #4).

KCD, i already said that #4 and #5 conflict each other. The only reason to have both is to let teams which cannot complete #4 win the game. But you must assume that a team can complete #4 and set the rules accordingly. Not that i'm saying FE will do, just to avoid discussion in December.

Sorry it's my "lawyer" side from the times i was fighting for Labour Contracts.

Fine. Go for 4 if you want laurels. Go for 5 if that gets tedious or impossible. For example, if one of the civs fails to vote for you but you win UN vote anyhow... you are done, with objective 5 and cannot/did not complete objective 4.

 

[Gumbolt]

In effect teams could aim for 2 victories in one turn in case (If they go for diplomatic) the vote fails. Could be an interesting 4 months.

 

[kcd_swede]

In effect teams could aim for 2 victories in one turn in case (If they go for diplomatic) the vote fails. Could be an interesting 4 months.

You don't get extra credit for a second victory under objective 4, so if you got the culture VC with restrictions and/or the space VC anyhow, why bother with UN vote? Speed, not number of VC's accomplished will decide the victor if everyone acheives all objectives 1 through 4.

1 VC is all you need... you just need to pick which one, to acheive either objective 4 (for laurels) or objective 5 (probably forfeiting the laurels but escaping the evil nightmare with your sanity still intact).

I'll have my lawyer contact you to hammer out the exact wording...

 

[BLubmuz]

1 VC is all you need... you just need to pick which one, to acheive either objective 4 (for laurels) or objective 5 (probably forfeiting the laurels but escaping the evil nightmare with your sanity still intact).

I don't quote your joke... mine is just an habit i took, which adds to my picky nature complaints with my mom.

What i quoted starts to be clear.

If i can dare a suggestion, the list of required objectives can be something like this:

To compete for a laurel you must:

1) Dr Evil’s lair is razed
2) You own the Swinger’s Pad
3) The Swinger’s Pad is Legendary without using Great Works (“culture bombs&#8221
4) You win the game by one of these conditions:
a. Spaceship lands at Alpha Centauri
b. UN diplomatic victory with 2 civs voting for you
c. Culture Victory where Culture Through Espionage does not exceed 4000 culture in at least two of your Legendary Cities.

To be ranked or compete for a laurel in case no team or not enough teams achieve #4 you can:

5) You win the game in any fashion, including the above, but also including Conquest/Domination/Time/Religion/UN with less than 2 other civs votes/Culture VC that does not comply with above restrictions/and anything else not covered, provided you complete #1, #2 and #3.

This is my humble suggestion to clean the field of any misinterpretation.
Including Space in #5 is redundant, but if you prefere you can do it.

IMO a better #5 can be:
5) win the game in any fashion, meaning you can win any Victory Conditon normally allowed in BtS without any restriction, provided you complete #1, #2 and #3.

I'm sure your better knowledge of English will find a better wording than mine

 

[kcd_swede]

^Sounds like you know what you need to do to win.

Can we end this discussion?

 

[Dhoomstriker]

BTW what if an AI launches the SS and land it on AC? is it game over as usual or you can continue to play

I am interested in hearing the answer to this question.

Specifically, I am interested in whether we can get credit for completing any Objectives on turns that fall after the turn where an AI gets a victory (such as playing onward until we get a victory).

Further, if we are not allowed to play on after that point, will we get credit for any Objectives completed (out of 1 through 3) even though the game was not won by the human player?

Similarly, if a team retires, will that team get credit for any Objectives completed?

 

[kcd_swede]

I am interested in hearing the answer to this question.

Specifically, I am interested in whether we can get credit for completing any Objectives on turns that fall after the turn where an AI gets a victory (such as playing onward until we get a victory).

Further, if we are not allowed to play on after that point, will we get credit for any Objectives completed (out of 1 through 3) even though the game was not won by the human player?

Similarly, if a team retires, will that team get credit for any Objectives completed?

You cannot play beyond the end of the game. The only exception is that you may move units, bomb culture, and whatever DURING the turn that you are making that final save (without hitting "end turn"). Note, the turn you make your save is after the victory (or defeat) screen comes up and you have pressed "Wait... just...one...more...turn". Conquest defeat is the exception, where you must submit your save just prior to the defeat.

And YES, you get credit for all objectives completed in your final save. So if you are planning on retiring to get an earlier date, that's fine. If you deemed that the game is unwinnable, the earlier you can do that, the better. Just don't be shocked if you miss any chance of Laurels since the most objectives you can complete with a loss or retire would be 3 out of 5. So my suggestion is that you try to complete as many objectives as you can, and winning is one of them, and winning with restrictions is another. So try double hard to win according to the stipulations in Objective 4.

 

[Deckhand]

Can we end this discussion?

Not yet, but soon.

...
IMO a better #5 can be:
5) win the game in any fashion, meaning you can win any Victory Conditon normally allowed in BtS without any restriction, provided you complete #1, #2 and #3.
...

I have two problems with this wording.
i) Theoretically you could win the Laurel by only completing objective #5 (if no other teams completed any objectives) - so, stating "provided you complete #1, #2 and #3." is incorrect.
ii) Because of all the discussion (not sure if there is really any confusion about this, but there has been a lot of discussion), I think it is important to include the note that satisfying #4 fulfills #5 and satisfies two objectives.



edit: How about:
Laurels will be awarded to the team completing the most number of objectives, and ties in that regard will be decided by how fast you can do it.
To summarize, the objectives are as follows:
1) Dr Evil’s lair is razed
2) You own the Swinger’s Pad
3) The Swinger’s Pad is Legendary without using Great Works (“culture bombs&#8221
4) You win the game by one of these conditions:
a. Spaceship lands at Alpha Centauri
b. UN diplomatic victory with 2 civs voting for you
c. Culture Victory where Culture Through Espionage does not exceed 4000 culture in at least two of your Legendary Cities.
5) Win the game in any fashion, meaning you can win any Victory Conditon normally allowed in BtS without any restriction.

You win the game in any fashion, including the above, but also including Conquest/Domination/Time/Religion/UN with less than 2 other civs votes/Culture VC that does not comply with above restrictions/and anything else not covered.

Note, if you complete objective #4, then objective #5 is also completed (two for the price of one). Objective #5 is to give you incentive to play on even after you realize that you will fail Objective #4. Mwahaha!