SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid
- Thread starter AlanH
- Start date
We can't run tests too further since there are many factors (such as unknown city sites, or a free worker ) will affect the progress. As you can see from the current tests now that, we have 1 settler ready on T17 or even on T16 if we prioritize corn. With granary, 1F > 2H, or even without whipping (working on Pig+Copper+Corn+Marble gives 20hpt) we could easily produce a settler in 4~5 turns, so 5 cities could be achieved in ~35 turns.
So, it's would be better that if you could post a save till your 1st settler for comparison and I am interested in studying your result with SIP.
So, it's would be better that if you could post a save till your 1st settler for comparison and I am interested in studying your result with SIP.
At the moment, I agree with this thinking re. the Copper. To add to this: the value of building a Settler on T16 (versus T17) is diminished if we do not have a Worker available to help set the city up. Moreover, you make a very point about needing an early Axe. If, after 8 turns, we decide Worker stealing is difficult, we can reassess.
This leaves us with two Copper runs. If 1F = 2H/C, then I prefer +4F (my Copper) to +3H +3C (DW Copper).
I reran my save and hooked the Copper up. Both saves are scheduled to produce an Axeman on T21. So this solidifies the value of the additional food, in my eyes. I'd also imagine +4F will lead to an earlier turn of growth, although I haven't run the numbers.
I hope that sounds fair.
I'm always happy to support another approach. If Folket's SIP start is stronger, I'll change my vote accordingly.
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
I might have an interesting opening with Corn before Copper:
Turn 17
Size 3, 12/26F
Produced: 1 Settler (T16), 1 Warrior, no hammer OF
Beakers: 194
Not sure how this compares to the other runs...
in any case that does not compensate for the issues pointed out by DW and Doshin (regarding Axe + Worker turns for city 2)
Turn 17
Size 3, 12/26F
Produced: 1 Settler (T16), 1 Warrior, no hammer OF
Beakers: 194
Not sure how this compares to the other runs...
in any case that does not compensate for the issues pointed out by DW and Doshin (regarding Axe + Worker turns for city 2)Spoiler micro :
The strategy determines the micro!
Do most of us agree with suppressing our neighbor?
BTW, I'm fine with either Doshin's copper save or myself.
Edit: I'll play tonight, so again, make your choice clear or try to convince others with your test before too late!
Do most of us agree with suppressing our neighbor?
BTW, I'm fine with either Doshin's copper save or myself.
Edit: I'll play tonight, so again, make your choice clear or try to convince others with your test before too late!
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
What are you talking about, I have one whole extra Warrior!!^^^^ nice test.
What time you playin DW? I probably won't have time to do a Copper test and I'm fairly confident your and Doshin's quick micro is better than anything I could come up with
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
I think I like better Doshin's Copper run due to more food but I can't really measure the extent of our happiness margin VS whip anger...
The potential 2nd city pays for itself even without trade routes, so that it's a pure gain on food and hammer. Faster 2nd settler is important due to the snowball effect. Would be better to save those forests for TGL, while we have no problem to REX. In fact we have to control the expansion at a time without slow down research too much.
After dinner. That's about 4 hours from now.
What time you playin DW? I probably won't have time to do a Copper test and I'm fairly confident your and Doshin's quick micro is better than anything I could come up with
After dinner. That's about 4 hours from now.
Just to reiterate, my micro for the Corn and Copper remains the same up until T9, and I'm guessing (?) it'll be similar for the other approaches that have been tested too.
So, although I am 80% sure I prefer the Copper approach, it will be good to have this buffer to decide. If, e.g., we discover on T8 that we are neighbors with Tokugawa of Babylon and Saladin of the Native Americans, we will have to consider our options very carefully.
So, although I am 80% sure I prefer the Copper approach, it will be good to have this buffer to decide. If, e.g., we discover on T8 that we are neighbors with Tokugawa of Babylon and Saladin of the Native Americans, we will have to consider our options very carefully.
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
I have a Copper run close to the one of DW with +1H -3B if it's interesting:
Size 2, 13F, 12H in Warrior with 8 OF
200 Beakers
Produced 1 Settler, 1 Warrior
EDIT:
That's a +1 for Doshin's 9 first turns
Size 2, 13F, 12H in Warrior with 8 OF
200 Beakers
Produced 1 Settler, 1 Warrior
EDIT:
Your turn 1 is better than mine in post #85 because it eventually lands 1 more beaker
That's a +1 for Doshin's 9 first turns
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
there won't be any Played to T5 in favor of food.
Report
T1 Info Screen
T3 We met the scout from Asoka of Byzantine
T5 Land Overview Our warrior is waiting a prey to the Corn.
And info screen on T5
The major issue next is the tech choice. I still want Alpha for the reasons that I already said. We have a good chance of trading either Med or Poly, even not, researching Med probably only takes ~5 turns. T40 Oracle is still a good date.
Attached a test file to T5 using pomthom's, but without the map updating. I am going to regenerate a map after my set so that our capital will be around the equator to have enough space to update the tiles.
Report
T1 Info Screen
Spoiler :
T3 We met the scout from Asoka of Byzantine
T5 Land Overview Our warrior is waiting a prey to the Corn.
Spoiler :
And info screen on T5
Spoiler :
The major issue next is the tech choice. I still want Alpha for the reasons that I already said. We have a good chance of trading either Med or Poly, even not, researching Med probably only takes ~5 turns. T40 Oracle is still a good date.
Attached a test file to T5 using pomthom's, but without the map updating. I am going to regenerate a map after my set so that our capital will be around the equator to have enough space to update the tiles.
PPP to T17
Warrior will try to steal a worker when safe and then scout the capital area, Scout will secure the worker to back home.
T5 Research ?
T6 Worker chop
T7 Ams (settler Pig+3H)
T8 Ams (Gra, Pig+silk)
T9 Ams (whip Gra), worker starts mining copper
T10 Ams (Warrior)
T11
T12 Ams (FP to mined copper)
T13 Worker goes 1W road & cancel
T14 Worker goes 1W irrigates the corn & cancel
T15 Worker goes 1E finish road, Ams (Axe)
T16 Ams (whip settler), Worker goes 1W irrigates the corn
Warrior will try to steal a worker when safe and then scout the capital area, Scout will secure the worker to back home.
T5 Research ?
T6 Worker chop
T7 Ams (settler Pig+3H)
T8 Ams (Gra, Pig+silk)
T9 Ams (whip Gra), worker starts mining copper
T10 Ams (Warrior)
T11
T12 Ams (FP to mined copper)
T13 Worker goes 1W road & cancel
T14 Worker goes 1W irrigates the corn & cancel
T15 Worker goes 1E finish road, Ams (Axe)
T16 Ams (whip settler), Worker goes 1W irrigates the corn
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
I'm ok with the micro. The road trick is good to start on the Axe asap.
I need to process a bit for tech choice.
-----------------------
Will you upoad the file so we can have a look?
Info from the demo screens does not seem to indicate anything fishy... I think we have 1 Creative dude, and 1 AI has a great production start
I need to process a bit for tech choice.
-----------------------
Will you upoad the file so we can have a look?
Info from the demo screens does not seem to indicate anything fishy... I think we have 1 Creative dude, and 1 AI has a great production start
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
I realized that in my test game, I have not given Priesthood to the AIs so Oracle dates in the v0 are not reliable.
pomthom
Drive & Reverb
I have made some tests by making contact with all AIs and dumping some EP on them to ~T35 because I figure it would be a safe Alpha beeline date (prepared save attached if you want to run similar tests)
Basically:
Basically:
- All Religious techs (including CoL) are a very high priority for the AI. In all my runs Med and/or Poly were available for trade with 2+ AIs
- After rel techs, the #1 priority tech is Iron Working
- T40 is not a safe Oracle date, I'd say at least 60% of my runs landed an Oracle date before that
- Alpha is rarely picked within the first 20 turns of tech
- I have not seen Aesth being chosen in all my runs
