SGOTM 19 - Also Sprach Sid

[pomthom]

BTW is any team axe rushing Constantinople?

I really don't think so. EDIT: I re-checked PR's power + score graphs and I'm not so sure...

With the power graph I'd say we're the only ones to have built an early Barracks which probably means we have a head start on Worker steals (BTW Doshin on a perfect steal! You and Duckweed were right obviously ). From the teams that have reached T32, I'd say we were the first to Alpha (4000 soldiers also).

Maybe some teams opted for no Worker steals, prefering to keep Asoka as a trading partner...


Yep I'd say Southern Axe stays around City 4 spot and defends.

--------------------------

RE: pace of game

Yes it has slowed down but I think discussion has been very easy and constructive so far. We might simply just need get a bit more posts in to keep the momentum up.

@ALL: don't hesitate to keep the team informed of your availabilities! I'll remind that I'm moving to the UK on Thursday and will have a period of no/very low CFC activity

 

[Folket]

I'm sorry I have not been that active. It has been a pretty bad period with sickness. I feel better now and hope to get up to speed any moment.

 

[kossin]

Looking good. I'm lurking for the next few days but I expect to resume my "normal" activities around Thursday/Friday this week.

 

[Duckweed]

1) Southern Axe

Does it unmoved, go 1SW and get the easy exp and heal. Barbarian won't approach 2 tiles around our culture, so 4th city site should be safe.

2) Woody Allen

If Asoka produces a new worker fast enough, it might be able to steal another worker, otherwise, let it explore west when our 2nd axes is able to take over his job.

3) Scout

Pity that all tiles to NE corner are sealed by forests. I'm nor sure whether we should risk to enter. Maybe not.

I'm a little worried about the lack of contact. Can we spare a spy and go through Tokugawa asap?
[/SPOILER]

Wait a bit to see what Woody Allen could reveal. If your assumption is true, then for sure. But from PR's graph, it seems that they did a lot of tradings in 1 turn, so ...

 

[pomthom]

1) Southern Axe

Does it unmoved, go 1SW and get the easy exp and heal. Barbarian won't approach 2 tiles around our culture, so 4th city site should be safe.

Yes it's the chance of getting a 2nd Woody, that would be very handy.

 

[Doshin]

Will upload and finish my set tomorrow morning. No disasters or huge surprises (Axeman #2 is at 4XP), but I'm not sure whether this changes anything:

Spoiler :

Good going Asoka.

The only thing I can see it affecting in my set is the build of city #3:

Spoiler :

Thoughts? An Archer from city 2 will arrive in good time for defense. My feeling right now is that an additional unit will be more valuable than a Granary. This can either fogbust or guard the city.

If I receive no further feedback, I will switch the build to an Archer.

---

A few pics from exploring and expanding:

Spoiler :

 

[pomthom]

Yes I'd say switch to Archer

 

[Duckweed]

The archer from the sugar city will arrive gold city before its own build. Plus that we are turning sugar site into military center next.

That TGW is going to introduce some unpredictable elements into our GP production.

 

[Doshin]

I stuck with a Granary, because I am happy to play with greater risk, but only if others are willing to share the responsibility.

I played and uploaded to T42. The turn is not complete. I think we'll need to run some tests, now that we have another free Worker and greater map knowledge. There are three Workers sitting on the Wheat, and I am not sure about their action and movement (three for the Wheat city is too many).

----

City #4 was hiding a resource:

Spoiler :

Named 'Sheepish,' since we were lucky to find another food. This greatly increases the value of a Monument in my eyes.

Some pics from Asoka harassment:

Spoiler :

Asoka is the cultural leader, so you can observe the culture of his cities on the victory screen.

The north:

Spoiler :

Note the barb city. Almost certainly pre-settled.

The south:

Spoiler :

Log:

Spoiler :

Turn 33, 2680 BC: Asoka adopts Organized Religion!

Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Archer (3.00) vs Trumpster's Axeman 2 (Case Départ) (6.25)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Combat Odds: 1.1%
Turn 37, 2520 BC: (Plot Defense: +25%)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 28 (72/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 28 (44/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 28 (16/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Barbarian's Archer is hit for 28 (0/100HP)
Turn 37, 2520 BC: Trumpster's Axeman 2 (Case Départ) has defeated Barbarian's Archer!

Turn 38, 2480 BC: The borders of Case Départ have expanded!
Turn 38, 2480 BC: You have trained a Settler in Case Départ. Work has now begun on a Axeman.
Turn 38, 2480 BC: Asoka has completed The Great Wall!

Turn 39, 2440 BC: The borders of Rue de Paradis have expanded!
Turn 39, 2440 BC: You have trained a Worker in Rue de Paradis. Work has now begun on a Archer.

Turn 40, 2400 BC: Rue de Paradis can hurry Archer for 1⇴ with 20ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 26 turns.
Turn 40, 2400 BC: You are the worst enemy of Asoka.
Turn 40, 2400 BC: Asoka is the worst enemy of Tokugawa.
Turn 40, 2400 BC: Asoka will trade Meditation, Polytheism
Turn 40, 2400 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Asoka
Turn 40, 2400 BC: Sheepish has been founded.
Turn 40, 2400 BC: Case Départ will grow to size 6 on the next turn.
Turn 40, 2400 BC: Case Départ will grow to size 6 on the next turn.

Turn 41, 2360 BC: Case Départ has grown to size 6.
Turn 41, 2360 BC: You are the worst enemy of Asoka.
Turn 41, 2360 BC: Asoka is the worst enemy of Tokugawa.
Turn 41, 2360 BC: Asoka will trade Meditation, Polytheism
Turn 41, 2360 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Asoka

Turn 42, 2320 BC: Rice Pudding can hurry Archer for 1⇴ with 8ℤ overflow and +1⇤ for 24 turns.
Turn 42, 2320 BC: You are the worst enemy of Asoka.
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Asoka is the worst enemy of Tokugawa.
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Asoka will trade Meditation, Polytheism
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Asoka
Turn 42, 2320 BC: You are the worst enemy of Asoka.
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Asoka is the worst enemy of Tokugawa.
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Asoka will trade Meditation, Polytheism
Turn 42, 2320 BC: Will Sign Peace Treaty: Asoka

 

[Doshin]

I'll update the test save tonight, but may not have reliable internet access for 24 hours.

 

[pomthom]

Good job Dosh

Great news about the Sheep, that city just became really good

The second Woody should take over the harrassment from the first so the first can explore West (the 3rd Axeman will soon be here to protect Sheepish).

Player Position
Duckweed
pomthom
Doshin ..Just played..
Folket ....... Up! .......
kossin ....On deck....
soundjata

Losing my internet access later today so this probably will be the last from me in the next couple of days... be good!

 

[Folket]

Great. I will be really busy today but I will have a look at it tomorrow morning and do a sketch tomorrow night.

 

[Doshin]

Test file updated.

 

[Doshin]

(1) The barb city is interesting and I wonder whether it is connected to the hidden objective:

Spoiler :

In classical kcd style, it looks to be sealed off by Ice and Mountains. Is this 'Jail' corner of the monopoly board?

(2) Future City Sites:

Spoiler :

The North is much more promising than the south, and Corn/Cow seems more promising to me than Sheep/Rice/Horse. However, I think we need to prioritize scouting west of Golden Sands with an Axeman. I would prefer to settle a city with access to resources and/or riverside tiles, although I am not sure how the timing will work out.

The Scout should check the one last tundra tile (in case Fur or Deer is located in the Forest) and then fogbust on the Cow tile.

(3) AI:

Asoka briefly stopped being Tokugawa's worst enemy on T39.

Spoiler :

I don't know whether this means he knows a second AI.

Asoka's Missionary has also moved westward:

Spoiler :

The AI usually infect their own cities first, but the Missionary did not head directly south. Perhaps it is going to another AI in the west? Still, it seems more likely than not that it is going south-west to reach Thessalonica.

(4) Asoka

Asoka has at least 5 Archers at present. 2 are in Constantinople, 1 is in Thessalonica.

Constantinople just grew, so it is probably building another unit.

Axe rushes are costly, and the benefit of capturing an AI capital needs to exceed the early loss of hammers. However, Asoka is very weak at the moment, and we are running out of good land to settle.

To attack or not to attack? Thoughts

----

Bit tired. Some talking points at least. Now .

 

[kossin]

If we can catch the city with 2, maybe 3 Archers defending, then it's definitely worth taking. 100H+30H/pop+capture gold+Ivory+etc.

re: barb city
It wouldn't really be an hidden objective if we could see it this early imo. In my opinion it's more likely a barb city with some corporation resources.

Some questions for the team:
1) Can we teleport into barb territory? I sure hope so because otherwise it's another Paratrooper game
2) You will found or capture the Corporate HQ of at least one corporation, and monopolize (owned and accessed, or traded for) every instance of its resources on the map before winning the game in any way you choose. - What if a city has access to the resource and not necessarily the rest of the empire?

 

[Folket]

I got the save now.

With archers missing it's seems likely Asoka has an other settler.

I really do not hope the barb city is related to any objective. I would hate to build an other paratrooper. Sadly it looks like the city is surrounded by ice and mountains.

If paratroopers are so loved why not start a game in modern era? I would enjoy that.

 

[Doshin]

If we can catch the city with 2, maybe 3 Archers defending, then it's definitely worth taking. 100H+30H/pop+capture gold+Ivory+etc.

We may want to think about holding both Woodsman II Axemen back, to rush in and attack, or whether we should attack Asoka's lone Archer that is headed towards Thessalonica. The Asoka Archer will be on flatland next turn, and we will receive 95% odds.

We can attack and capture this city in ~6 turns. If we really wanted to, we could attack and raze it now. But this would be largely pointless, since it will just cost us an Axe for little gain.

re: barb city
It wouldn't really be an hidden objective if we could see it this early imo. In my opinion it's more likely a barb city with some corporation resources.

Some questions for the team:
1) Can we teleport into barb territory? I sure hope so because otherwise it's another Paratrooper game
2) You will found or capture the Corporate HQ of at least one corporation, and monopolize (owned and accessed, or traded for) every instance of its resources on the map before winning the game in any way you choose. - What if a city has access to the resource and not necessarily the rest of the empire?


(1) I don't know about teleporting. Without testing, I doubt it, because we are at war with barbs and lack open borders;

(2) Game rules state: "You will... monopolize (owned and accessed, or traded for) every instance of its resources on the map before winning the game." We will own and access the resource in one city, even if the rest of the empire lacks immediate access. What could be problematic are resources that fall outside of an AI's cities borders, where we can only capture the city late.

I got the save now.

With archers missing it's seems likely Asoka has an other settler.

He doesn't. His hammers have been spent on Archers, a Barracks, 1 Settler, 2 Workers, and the Great Wall. He might also have a Monument in his capital, if you zoom in and look.

I really do not hope the barb city is related to any objective. I would hate to build an other paratrooper. Sadly it looks like the city is surrounded by ice and mountains.

Personally I don't think it will involve Paratroopers. It is more likely that we need to culture flip it, or do something else.

.....

 

[Folket]

Ok, at last I can start to make a plan.

Not ready for a real PPP yet. I will try tonight.

Avoid barb axe.
Plunder ivory and be ready to capture worker on ivory or cow.
Use 1 worker to build cottage by Sheepish.
Use 2 workers to improve marble that the capital can work before growing to size 7. 3
Use northern worker to improve rice by golden sands. Use scout to make sure it is not eaten.
pop whip of settler in capital?

Or shall we just chop forests and capture Constantinople? We can have Constantinople by turn 56.

 

[Folket]

No feedback?

I'm kinda lost when not knowing what I should plan for.

 

[kossin]

Culture flipping a barb city that starts with culture from T0 will not happen at a competitive date.

Either:
- paratroopers
- teleport
- pick another Corporation

I think he really wants us to get Paratroopers so that the later Corporations are also valid. So I'd appreciate if we double-checked teleportation into barb culture.

Not properly checking game mechanics has famously cost a team gold by 1 turn in the past

~~~

Capturing Constantinople with WII Axes means we will face fewer defenders (no emergency whips), but we'd need extra experience on the newer axes to do so. I think that requires too much time, we can send a small dispatch of 3-xp Axes (4 max.) and have the 2 Woodsman keep close in case.

Even with the gpp pollution, Constantinople is still a fantastic city. There may yet be some uses to GSpy.